Is the wall oven cabinet required to install the rest of the cabinetry and wiring?

I will be most interested in the responses to this. I to have suffered through a long delay what with silestone countertops being delivered in the wrong colour and refusing to accept them. I have been doing dishes on my knees for 3 months and now finally have a working sink. Dishwasher to be hooked up soon. I want compensation and am not exactly sure how to go about getting it. I did go into HD and actually cried about poor old (66 years) me having to be on hands and knees doing dishes in bathtub. I got absolutely no response, in fact I was told that because of what happened I was now looking for things to complain about!!

What compensation is owed to people who must suffer unneccessary delays because of other peoples mistakes?

I may be voted off the island for this, but I thought delays were part and parcel of any remodel and that's what you have to be prepared for in any remodel.

I am a lawyer specializing in construction defects, so I know whence I speak. Formally, delay damages is a real item of damages, but (a) you need to prove you suffered real (out of pocket) damages, not just inconvenience and/or (b) it may be spelled out in your construction contract...but it probably isn't. As examples, (a) you've had to move to a hotel and it's costing $100/day for every day it's gone over budget and (b) your contract says "Contractor's payment shall be reduced $100 for each day past May 27 that the project is not completed." (b) is unlikely to be found in any remodeling project, because contractors know that things run over; they may be featured in public works and other contracts for large works, and usually also have an incentive ("contractor's payment shall be increased $100 for each day before May 27 that the project is finished").

Informally, you can try to negotiate a reduced fee, but don't expect too much, as kitchen remodels are notoriously subject to time and cost overruns. If you're down to the last 10%, you don't have much negotiating room, because if you offer to cut it down to zero he'll have no incentive to finish the job. Documentation, if any, showing out of pocket expenses will help.

I'm sorry to sound unsympathetic, but mistakes do occur and homeowners are rarely compensated.

Blue

Bluekitobsessed:

You're exactly correct on all counts. I knew I would have to prove actual expenses incurred, and that's hard.

In looking over the contract, there's no deadline date, etc. which is common. However, the contract does state that the GC will complete the job in a 'timely fashion'. A time overrun of approximately 30-40% doesn't seem timely to me.

I'm not trying to rip the GC off, but this error was caused by inattention to detail (I called immediately after the cabinets were ordered to make sure everything was correct, and was told 'absolutely', which makes it infuriating).

From the sound of things, looks like I'll have a tough time getting compensation. Thanks for listening to me vent.

Alice

Delays are an expected part of home improvement projects. They are normal. Compensation is inappropriate.

For what it's worth Alice, know that this delay is costing HIM money and inconvenience as well.

If he is at fault for the delay, asking for a small bit of extra work - something he could do in 30-60 extra minutes - might be something he'd agree to. But cash? Ain't gonna happen...

I agree with BKO that it's something you will need to live with but hopefully others will learn from your mistake and right it into the contract.

We insisted on a clause in our contract which said that any delays in remodeling DUE TO THE FAULT OF THE GC beyond a certain date would result in a $75/day reduction in payment. We had one two week delay. A window came in exactly as ordered but the window was horrible for the space. It took two weeks to replace it so that delay was OUR fault and pushed the contract date back two weeks as well.

Our GC wasn't thrilled to sign the contract but we were willing to find someone else who would. In the end he did and everything turned out more or less OK. We had other issues with the quality of work his subs did but that's another story.

If I remember your previous post (with pics) wasn't your oven cabinet at the end of a run? I don't see why they can't continue with the fabrication and installation of the granite, plumbing hookup, wiring and applying the hardware. The backsplash would have to wait...but that doesn't prevent you from doing your dishes.

I'll second what everyone else said....delays are part of remodeling.

Alice, first of all let me send you a virtual hug because I know I sure need one.

I was going to post today because sometimes this is the only place to go where people will understand what you are going through. As my contractors were here today (the owners finally came at our request) to go over every thing that is not done - we are doing a first floor remodel/addition, I started to have a panic attack. We are 4 months over the estimated date of completion and I look around and it doesn't look much different than it did 3 months ago.I've been pretty calm about the whole thing. I expected delays. Everyone told me there would be delays but its still a hard pill to swallow when you have no washer and drier for months, no kitchen and no sink! My DH is really stressed and that upsets me but I've really had it in my head that we are blessed to be able to do this work and eventually we will be done and we will be thrilled. And I know people have much worse stories than me (many right here at GW). But as I stood there and my DH went over the list and I looked around and saw all the areas that were a wreck and not one thing completed, I started to feel my heart race and the panic set in. I'm still feeling jittery but this too shall pass.

But I digress... As others have stated, there is unfortunately not much to do. Delays do have to be expected or you'll drive yourself crazy. But sometimes I wonder if I've been too nice about delays. So i do recommend keeping the communication lines open and finding out if there is anything else that can be done in the meantime. If delays persist don't be afraid to ask for additional extras be thrown in. Is there an upgraded material or a new door, etc. Just try to keep it reasonable and who knows, they might bite. Sometimes delays and problems crop up but its how the contractor handles it that you'll remember and tell your friends about. I told my contractor in the middle of some problems that several people have asked me about the project and would I recommend my contractor. I was truthful and told him that at this point I would have to say no but he still had time to change my mind. Well, due to delays and problems with some of his subs and some other things they have offered to paint our entire downstairs and they are also paying for a post-construction (who knows when that will be!)cleaning lady to come in. I think it has also helped that I've tried to remain calm, cool and collected and have reminded them several times of that fact. Good luck with everything.

I'm so sorry for your delay-- what a pain. But, I think it's a good reminder that if you want a speedy project, it's a good idea to have all materials on site and inspected before demo begins. Of course, for a really large project, or if there is no on-site area for secure storage, this is not possible. But for a basic kitchen remodel, I think it's a good goal.

Thanks for the additional comments. The main source of frustration is that we were as diligent as possible in asking if everything ordered as checked and double-checked, as we knew additional delays were inevitable. In fact, the GC said we were one of the most careful clients he's had. I realize delays are part and parcel of remodeling, esp. sub-contractor scheduling issues, inspections, etc. But in this case, it was due to inattention to detail. I think this GC is more confortable with undercounter ovens than wall units.

The GC's subs have been great, and we are thankful for that. Things could be a lot worse. We are/were not rushing anything, and were pleased with the moderate progress being made. And yes, 4 (now 5) weeks is small in comparison, except when you're living with it.

Thanks for everyone's opinion. Seems like maintaining oversight on the job from here on out is the best we can do, and hopefully things will progress from here on out.

This is late in the conversation, but I wanted to add that commercial contracts where delay penalties are common (because a commercial concern can calculate financial losses/per day)--these contracts may *also have bonuses for finishing early. I think that would be a bad thing in residential and remove homeowner input in the process.

Commercial projects are designed and approved by committee and there are very few seat of the pants / as we go along decisions made as opposed to residential projects...often the decisions are finalized pretty much at the end of the design phase presentation.

I have to agree that delays are to be expected. It's a rare remodel that finishes on time w/no problems. I have to say, though, that 4 weeks isn't bad. Our 6-8 week job took 5-1/2 months to complete...and all caused by KD, Contractor, and Granite Fabricators. We did, btw, wait to demo until we had all our cabinets, appliances, etc. delivered and stored in our garage.

I did, though, get some extra work out of it as someone suggested above (a cooktop niche & message center niche). But I had a lot more than a 4-week delay (caused by many measuring mistakes, damage done to cabinets, and reluctance to think of solutions to problems and trying fall back on "it can't be done").

Two cautions to anyone thinking of putting a clause in their contract for compensation due to delays:

(1) Do you really want someone working as fast as they can to finish up on-time? That's asking for corner cutting and sub-standard work so they can "just get it done no matter what they have to do"! Ditto, IMO, if you have a "bonus" clause for finishing early.

(2) Since delays are all part of the job, you may not be able to get anyone to agree to your job if you insist on compensation.

"Commercial projects are designed and approved by committee and there are very few seat of the pants / as we go along decisions made as opposed to residential projects...often the decisions are finalized pretty much at the end of the design phase presentation."

And then a tight contract is written.
Any variations found in the conditions are subject to negotiation for cost and schedule.

Houses (and especially older houses) often are at considerable variation from the codes now in effect, and have problems hidden behind the finished surface.

I have torn into walls for an addition, only to find extensive rot from a leaking soffit.
There was no evidence inside or outside of the extent of the problem.

I routinely warn customers about the possibility of additional work once the finished surfaces are opened up.

Some warnings are easy to give.
Galvanized steel water and drain lines 30 years old are very likely to need replacement.
The slightest disturbance can cause them to fail and leak, if they were not already inside the wall.

It is not just the cost of the repairs, but the delay it creates for the already identified work.

If you want penalties be prepared for a tighter contract to cover unknowns, especially when no rewards for better performance are offered.

Just to come back to our contract and the delay clause. The GC told us the job would take 6-8 weeks. Our "deadline date" was a FULL 8 weeks after that. Believe me they didn't and weren't rushing when the subs made all their catastrophic decisions and it cost the GC big time to fix those mistakes and it was all still done "on time" and yes we are very satisfied with the end result (except the plugmold - but that was me and not thinking it through enough and is in another post)

If compensation for a pain in the arse delay were possible, I'd be RICH!!! As it was, I've had over $30,000 "compensation" for errors and delays caused by contractors, but still am quite backwards on this "three month" job that has gone on for three years.

We did have actual money outlay losses, quite significant costs actually, but most of the time the person I'd have sued didn't have a pot to pea in anyhoo. Or just getting them to take back the product was enough for me to be happy just to get them out of my hair! Construction sucks, and unfortunately they're all not Live Wires out there!

I had a "five month" project turn into a just shy of 5 year project with *No Working Kitchen for 4 and a half years.

We don't have children so it was much more bearable. And as bad as that was, if the original contractor had finished the whole project in the five month the results would have been an unqualified disaster.

It is frustrating that's for sure, but it's all part of the process. We just received stone veneer that isn't the size we ordered, 3 stained glass panels that are the wrong size and the the wrong pattern, and "new" window$ that look like a Mack truck drove over them.

We have the choice of sitting here and working ourselves up into a tizzy or making sure that the mistakes get corrected ASAP so that we can continue moving forward.

I think if we could honestly say that we ourselves had never made a mistake we might have some justification for trying to penalise others for their unintentional errors....but heck, we screw up on a regular basis too :)