tempered window issue - can this window be saved??

20 years ago

I'm building a tiny cabin with out of pocket money (and my pocket is certainly out of money).....I have a good builder who is new to the business and has a lot to learn as I do, this being my first-ever house to build. We've had some stumbles but have recovered so far.

My situation is this. I bought all my windows independently of the others, buying quality windows from different sources. I bought a 6'x8' window from my small local window distributer who advertised some clearance and closeout windows at a reduced price. The window I (thought) I purchased was tempered, which is necessary by code because the window is less than 18" from the floor. I took pictures of it along with the ratings sticker and the tempered sticker. There were 4 of the same large windows stacked on top of each other, and I was told they were all the same except for a small difference in sizing, no more than an inch or so difference.

Well, you guessed it. The window that was delivered and installed is not tempered!! I called to ask about it, and the owner said he didn't know that I required a tempered window. There are two windows left that are tempered, but someone else has purchased them and although they haven't been picked up, the rough openings have been cut. (As if mine haven't been!) I bought and paid for my one window first.

He is not willing to rectify this situation, at least not yet, and my builder is trying to calm me down by saying that it's not a big deal, that he can install "permanent" louvres that will cover the bottom of the window and make it 18" from the floor. Says I can take them out later. Also says that plate glass is harder to break than tempered anyway. It may be, I don't know, but I have a 2 year old grandson who will bw jumping around in the house and of course I want him to be safe.

Do you have any idea what I should do? I would appreciate hearing from anybody who knows more than I do about the subject, and that could well be everybody.

I did get the windows for a good price and can't afford to pay to replace it. Please advise!! Thank you, as always.

Featured Answer

guy_exterior_man

20 years ago

last modified: 11 years ago

When it comes to glass issues, Oberon is the best in the business! Anytime I have a question on glass I go to him first. He's by far the Gospel in my book. The only things I can really add are from every day issues we deal with here in MN as a Licensed General Contractor (specializing in doors & windows).

As noted above, it's not ever worth the short cut when safety is on the line. As Oberon pointed out above, "the laws are made for the safety of those in your home". I can personally support that rule, as I have a ten inch & three inch scar running up my right forearm from a broken plate glass window when I was 8 years old. It's not the falling shards that get you as much as the sharp pieces still in tact as your arm goes through the window. That pain wasn't as bad as the lecture I received from my Mother for using her brand new white display towels to stop the bleeding! Growing up in the 60's was a bit different than today!! She was more concerned about my safety at the time, but thought I should have used the red towels next to the white. We laugh about it all the time today!!

Back to the issue at hand though. I also agree with Mike and Oberon about the unfortunate "Bait & Switch" tactic used in the sale of your window. I would definitely get down there and get in someone's face and stir the pot. Obviously somebody else came in and probably floated some extra cash to get the tempered units. Hopefully you have some paperwork from the sale stating you purchased the tempered unit. With you taking the tempered sticker and pictures during your purchase. You should bring them down to the owner and show him your proof of your visit. Since you stated they were a window manufacturer you can always make them replace the glass in the unit instead of taking one of the others. If you get no where with him the best way to make him think things out would be, calmly and patiently telling him that any legal action would cost you both more than the window is even worth. You could then somehow compromise on splitting the glass replacement fee to remedy the situation.

I don't know how your window is laid out, but there is a quick cheap fix to bring your unit compliant under the International Residential Code. This is the code most of the states are using across the Nation. Since your window falls under the glazing category R308.4 - Hazardous Locations. Under the Exception rules at the end we always use Exception #5 - Which allows you to install a protective bar on the accessible side of the window 36" (+ or - 2") above the floor. The bar needs to be capable of withstanding a horizontal load of 50lbs per linear foot without contacting the glass & be a minimum of 1.5" in height. By installing this bar you come to code and save some money until you can afford to change out the glass. We use a decorative piece of 2" solid oak round stock and mount it inside the window jambs. It can be somewhat appealing if done right. Hope this helped and good luck!!!

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Comments (6)

calbay03
20 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I am surprised to see your builder claims that annealed glass is stronger than tempered. We researched glass type just before ordering our new windows and all sources indicated that tempered glass is significantly stronger than annealed glass.

There is a type of film (by Dupont?) that you can buy that when applied to annealed glass, will keep it from breaking into large deadly sharp pieces. May be applying such film to your annealed glass will solve your problem. I no longer have all the links we used 2 years ago but a quick search on-line using the string "Window films to control breakage" turned up quite a few. one of them is:

http://www.llumar.com/na-eng/Safety/safety-security.html

Good luck!
mike35
20 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I'd go after the supplier. You are a victim of a bait & switch. Make some noise, and they should provide what you expected to receive. The biggest advantage to tempered glass is the safety aspect, breaking into tiny balls instead of sharp shards like regular(annealed) glass. Tempered glass can be quite a bit stronger as a result of the tempering process. Many manufacturers now heat strenghten their glass, which is kind of like half-tempering the glass for added strength.
I don't know about the films, or the shutters to remove later. When it comes to the safety of a child or grand child, I wouldn't play around with quick fixes. One accident will cost significantly more.
Take your complaint to the supplier. Go to the manager, owner, or the highest available person. Insist on getting what you paid for. Let them know what happened, use key phrases like bait & switch, fraud, your best friend at the local newspaper, etc. Don't mention lawyers, because that will end a conversation pretty quickly.
Good luck.
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oberon476
20 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I agree 100% with Mike.

The owner of the company said that plate glass is stronger than tempered????????? Amazing...and wrong.

You said something about having tempered stickers on the glass? Or was that one of the windows you didn't purchase?

Forget films...they are not code. Forget louvres - and I am not amazed (unfortunately) that your builder suggested a possible code violation.

Window safety codes exist for a very good reason - as Mike noted - to keep your grandson safe and even possibly alive in the event of an accident.

You need what you paid for and I would be on the doorstep of the place you bought the window letting them know that you are not happy and asking them how they are going to fix the problem.
norcalbl
20 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Even if you find a way to justify keeping the non-tempered window,when you sell your home, you will have to replace it then. I agree with all of the above. If the person who sold you the windows will not make it right, you would be better off buying a new window from someone else, then putting an annealed glass window where a tempered window should be.
lakedog
20 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
If you can't afford to buy a tempered window, how can you afford a lawsuit when someone falls into the window and gets hurt?

In defense of the window distributor, it was a clearance sale, and you probably got a pretty good deal. In that environment, maybe you needed to pick it up and take it with you or at least make an effort to mark the window you bought with your name on it.

I see both sides, and agree there may have been some unintentional mix up, but it's not like you ordered and paid for tempered glass and he switched. It sounds like a case where you want to put the burden on the poor guy who was trying to do you a favor. I say take responsibility and do what's right, go order a tempered window. Maybe this guy will swap it out for cost if you respect his position.

Good Luck!

tempered window issue - can this window be saved??

guy_exterior_man

Comments (6)

calbay03

mike35

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