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izzie_gw

Rotten windows

19 years ago

New here and looks like a lot of great info. Here's my story. My house is about 15 yrs old. Last year notice paint on wood sliders looking shabby and was going to re-paint this year. It was too late. In the lower corners the wood is rotten, even went into the brick mold.. Never was too happy with the windows from the beginning. Almost looks like the rotted from the inside out..Of course I get a lot of, you should have..used oil, noticed it b4 this. blah blah..A friend had a independent contractor replace some of hers with Pella alum. clad from home depot.He used new construction sizes available(no special orders) and cut off the flanges and built up, whatever correct term, and framed out window. I looks pretty good...Any nay sayers on this type of installation, sorry don't have exact details. I don't have much money (stay at home mom and hubby lost job 5 yrs ago hasn't had any luck finding anything close so took a lower paying job) I would rather not replace with wood, really like what has been said about the fiberglass but may be out of my price range, may have to go with vinyl...I know, cheap sometimes cost more in the long run. I have patched up the best I could on failing windows, would like to get front 4 replaced right away....Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. We are not overly handy with a hammer so would have to hire someone to do this.

Comments (9)

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Dont buy wood windows, dont buy pella windows !!!!
    You want to buy Vinyl windows - they are the most durable, cost efficent and will not rot. Pella windows are good but the problem with them is that they dont offer many replacement parts -so if something breaks, you have to buy a whole new window instead of being able to replace the actual part. They are also one of the most expensive windows on the market right now. I recommend vinyl windows, if you like to wood look - there are color options avail. they look like wood. I recently replaced my wood single pane windows for vinyl double pane windows and i love them !!! easy to operate, clean and they were not that expensive, also has made a big difference in my gas bills! You can claim an energy credit on your taxes. Theres nothing wrong with using vinyl windows, ive had mine for over a year and have had no problems!

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Hi Izzie, you have three main choices for replacement windows - wood (with or without exterior cladding), vinyl, and fiberglass. Custom sized wood is usually the most expensive, standard size wood (depending on the brand) and fiberglass are mid-priced, and vinyl is the most competitively priced (usually). There are some brands of vinyl however that run $1,000 per window installed, and conversely there are some brands of wood that cost about $400 per window installed. So wood can actually be the least expensive (Menards and Lowes for example sell Pella wood/clad windows starting for about $125 each plus installation). I wouldn't generally recommend wood exteriors though, getting a clad exterior on wood is much better. Anywho, generally speaking vinyl is the least costly, is low maintenance, and a great value. As for your question about cutting off the flanges, there are reasons that someone may have to do that for installation, but there's about a 80% chance that the installation is not done to perfection when the flanges are gone. LEAVE THEM ON if possible. The normal way to install a full tear-out window (getting rid of the old sill, frame, etc.) is to nail the window into place through the nailing flanges. It helps create a water and air infiltration barrier. If you had a good reason for taking them off so be it, but it had better be a good reason. However if it is a replacement window going into the existing window frame, then those types of windows do not have flanges at all; they're meant to go into a frame without them and install just fine. Perhaps that's what you were referring to but I don't think so.

    Heather, I'd have to respectfully disagree with some of what you said:

    "Dont buy wood windows"
    Geez. Wood windows look GREAT, add value to a home, can have low-maintenance exteriors, etc. etc. You chose pretty strong wording. I have three different brands of clad/wood windows on my home - they work great, they're maintenance free (except for washing which is done from the inside), no rotting issues (ever), and anything else would look tacky on my home (you'd have to see it to see why).

    "You want to buy Vinyl windows"
    Whenever a salesperson tells ME what I want I get a different salesperson, or a different company altogether. I think it's better to give people the info they request, and let THEM decide what they want or need.

    "They are the most durable, cost efficent and will not rot."
    I agree that generally they are the most cost efficient, and yes they will not rot. However depending on the brand they can be the most expensive. And they are not the most durable. Wood and fiberglass are both stronger than vinyl; in fact fiberglass is 8 to 9 times stronger than vinyl. It's more scratch resistant, more impact resistant, less susceptible to softening in extreme heat, and has much much less expansion and contraction compared to vinyl. Vinyl is still a fine choice and would be my recommendation to Izzie, but to say it's the most durable is just not correct.

    "Pella windows are good but the problem with them is that they dont offer many replacement parts"
    That statement is so wrong. Pella is one of the few wood window companies that has a service department that makes house calls. They have hundreds of parts (maybe thousands?) and not only do they offer the parts, they will offer to provide the service guy to install the parts. Most other wood window companies don't make house calls; they would recommend a glass company, handyman, etc. to do the work.

    "They are also one of the most expensive windows on the market right now."
    They can be one of the most expensive, especially if one gets their triple glazed with blinds between the glass. However, as I mentioned earlier they can be one of the least expensive if you're not getting the bells and whistles. Menards & Lowes sell them starting at about $125, and when Consumers Report magazine rated windows a few years ago not only was Pella their recommended window, it was the least expensive wood window of the 20 or so windows they tested.

    "I recommend vinyl windows, if you like to wood look - there are color options avail. they look like wood."
    Finally something we agree on. Vinyl is (usually) competitively priced, and the woodgrain look should satisfy most people expect purists and wood fanatics. I happen to have wood (clad wood) in my home and love them, but I recognize that it's not for everyone these days.

    Again, I'm not trying to be a snot; I'm sure your intentions were good in giving vinyl advice, but your statements were not entirely correct, and since it's a Saturday morning and cold outside and I have 2 hours to kill before going outside, I thought I'd offer my two cents.

    Izzie good luck with your research and decision.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thank you trublue and heather for your feedback. The reason I need total replacement is because the sill is bad too and it is part of the window.(The builder really went cheap and I didn't know better)I guess I need to have a window sale rep come in..but I really hate those guys sometimes. I was at my parents when some roof guys were there and they wouldn't leave. My parents signed contract (Then cancelled next day) They were almost $5,000 more for same job/roof shingles and one they got from a neighbor. My sister had vinyl siding that went bad in 4 yrs...long story short the state attourney gen. told them since not manufactured in this state they couldn't help. Short of filing a suit, which would probably cost as much as just replcing it themselves.Anyway, If I do go with new construction windows and not cut the fins off then some siding(sp?) has to come off also, doesn't it...I guess I just don't trust anyone right now and can't afford a big mistake. I will probably go with vinyl, white is fine with me.Anything to look out for in vinyl. I am a little leary with the alm. clad wood, can't water get behind to wood with out knowing or are some made differently? Live in Mn so weather can be harsh.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Great post True-Blue, you hit the nail on the head. Izzie, fortunately for you I also live in MN. We install doors and windows every day of the week. I've watched the entire industry make some poor moves and then rebound back to glory over my 32 years in this industry. The clad units made by Pella really have an extruded exterior piece which is fixed to the wood frame. So water really isn't an issue. True_Blues statement on window costs are so true. The wood and wood clad units all have their places, but come with some things to keep in mind. They have to be stained or painted with yearly touch ups. The pricing can be moderate to very high. Vinyl windows also have their upper end which will cost you sometimes more then the others. You can also get them with the wood grain color on the inside. Some of the manufacturers really do a good job on them.

    As for the choice in replacements, considering your finances with your husband out of work. The best choice wood be vinyl. If the windows are properly measured the nailing fin should fit right back in the area that was occupied by the brickmould. A good installer will then bend an aluminum capping to fit in that area and cover it up to your siding. The inside will need some jamb extensions or a jamb box to finish it off. In most cases your original trim can be re-used. The big thing is finding the right installer to do the job. You must feel comfortable with them and trust them. Talk to friends, neighbors and family to see if they have anybody that's done their windows. Good Luck!!!

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    If there's three things I know about houses, it's flashings, flashings, flashings.

    Guy is right about the importance of correct installation, installed well cheap windows can be fine, installed badly, expensive windows can be terrible.

    One thing about vinyl, I'd never even heard of vinyl windows, having lived in Australia for years, I can see the arguments in favour regarding rot, thermal characteristics etc (I wonder how they'd do in a hot climate?) but I have to wonder about the long term, presumably all vinyl windows are UPVC but most plastics become brittle with age....or cold.

    Several of my vinyl windows are iced up, we're down to -19C at the moment, I could see how a vinyl window could be wrecked by ice, or by someone trying to open an iced-up vinyl window...

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    This is my first time here. We live in Kansas and are in the process of building a new home. We have had Jeld-Wen alum. clad wood casement windows recommended to us. I haven't liked what I've read about them so far so have been looking into others such as Kolbe & Kolbe. We have also looked at some Anderson (not sure what series), Pella, and some other brands that I don't recall the name of. I would like to know what experiences anyone may have had with these and others. I too am very concerned about the possibility of wood rot or water leakage since our new home will be 80% brick and I figure that replacing anything down the road would be a challenge. Our last home had vinyl sliders and double hungs, which was ok, but we had water leakage issues with some of those. As mentioned earlier by izzie, I have wondered about the possibility of water getting between the aluminum and the wood and not knowing it until it would be too late. We are needing to make a final decision as soon as possible, so would appreciate any information you may have, especially from anyone who has had these windows for at least 10 years. Thanks for your help.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Rick, I think your question has been lost because you asked it at the end of another question.
    You would surely get more help by starting a new thread with your question.
    There are a lot of people here to help.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Izzie: re: the bad vinyl siding ... what went wrong & who installed it? Hate to pose this on the window ? but we were thinking of vinyl siding too & saw your remark!

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Izzie, you can order your new vinyl windows to any size you want down to the sixteenth. So by ordering the exact same size as your existing windows, you'll be making the installation much easier. When you hire your installer you want to make it specific that you get "New Construction" windows to do a "Full Frame Replacement". You also want to make sure they remove your siding if it's vinyl, steel or aluminum before they install the new windows. This way they can install them correctly and flash around the new units to prevent water and air infiltration. If you have wood siding then it needs to be cut back to install the window correctly. Then the nail fin is covered with a trim board or aluminum capping. We always custom bend aluminum to look like brickmould and snap it into the accessory groove over to the siding edge. Ounce it's caulked up it looks great. If your installer won't do this then find another. The only time the nail fin should ever be removed is when it's going into concrete or a brick opening.

    Rick77, I don't do enough of the K&K window to offer an honest opinion. I do know our local supplier is not a worthy company to deal with. Every time I call the manufacturer they just send me back to them. So I have stopped trying to get parts for their windows here. I install Pella windows quite often and haven't found or seen anything to make me leery. We have jobs out there that are at least ten years old and going strong. With your thoughts of siding also, it would be a great choice to remove the old siding, install the new windows and then side. This would be the ultimate way to go.

    Some other windows to consider are Marvin and Eagle (Andersen Owned). The Marvin window has an entirely extruded frame with out any wood behind it. This eliminates the water wicking effect your worried about. Pella is aluminum cladding over wood. This can sometimes have issues but most windows today have something under the wood to prevent wicking. The Eagle window is also a very nice choice. Clean and well built. If it was my choice I'd go with the Eagle window.