Why not have it all?

Fridge nearest the deck stairs, then sink with big window, then cooktop on the pantry wall. Extend the sink wall run a bit if neccessary to make it work. Maybe ovens/MW right of the great room passthrough. Consider a second sink in the island.

Allows the MW snacking, fridge, serving, pass through activity to operate independently of the core work triangle of fridge, range, sink.

wow, celticmoon, thanks for the response and ideas! I will definitely be looking into ALL of those suggestions!

Lol - have it all indeed!

Another option is to put the cleanup sink and DW on the perimeter outside the main work triangle, somewhere on the passthrough run. The sink at the window then is a prep sink. So your food moves: fridge, prep sink, island, rangetop. Back to the island (or to the passthrough run) for serving or plating. Meanwhile those snack hounds and the clean up helpers (some people have those I hear) can do their thing along the outer aisle, accessing the fridge, DW, dish storage, and MW. No cross traffic.

The price you pay includes:
A) having the dishes stored outside the main work area. (might need some extra bowls, utensils etc stored closer for prep)
B) Ovens are not close to the cooktop (some cooks like to move dishes from one to the other easily)
C) cleanup at the pass through needs to be designed so the mess isn't a problem from the great room (? ledge at pass through to hide dirty dishes).

All kitchens have some compromise. But if you want your large window and your cooktop on the perimeter, those should be very doable.

Wow, seems like Celticmoon may have covered it all, and has given you some great ideas to consider that will really improve the kitchen and how it is to work and be in. The plan above is definitely lacking (tiny window, inefficient layout, really bad -in my opinion- stove location, lots of counter and storage, but not where it will serve you best) and you can do much better.

How large is your family? What kind of cooking/baking and entertaining do you plan to do?

Windows - its a large area (like 22-23 feet) for just the small sink window. If you move the sink down or trade for a prep sink, consider making the window two times as large or use two or three of them.

Given its configuration, your dining table space is effectively about 8 x 10. Partly, this is because the island is a bit long and juts out into the table area and partly because of the two sets of deck doors.

So, personally, I wouldn't put the ref on the deck side because I would have volumes of stuff to-ing and fro-ing from the deck and I would value the unobstructed landing area near the door over immediate access from the outside to the ref.

Adding that to the way the table space is impacted by deck doors, I might think about where the door is in relation to the kitchen and whether I wanted it closer. Possibly using inoperable panels at the table space or same height gang windows - to get the light and air without the big swing of the door.

hth

Thanks for the responses everyone!

celticmoon, I think I prefer your first suggestions, but thank you for offering other options/ideas, will def keep them in mind.

rhome410, right now it is just DH and I but we hope to change that soon after moving in. We are dinner at the table most nights kind of people (DH usually cooks, but we may both cook sometimes) and do not do a ton of baking so far (may change with kids? so hard to predict!). We also do not presently entertain (mostly due to remote location and rental house status) and would probably never have any kind of formal dinner parties (hence no formal dining room) or anything, but do foresee casual holiday/family type gatherings.

bmorepanic, the double/triple window over the sink is exactly what I was thinking, I really love that look and think it would be weird to not have a large window area along that wall, especially since we are pretty window heavy everywhere else. Thank you for the dining area insights, I have been wondering how that area will work, especially if we do go with the trey ceiling as drawn and need to center the table underneath. Our dining table is large and heavy (Broyhill Attic Heirlooms) and is about 44"W x 72"D with the windsor style chairs, one at each end, 2 on each side. We would also like to put 2 bar chairs at the island, not sure of island shape yet. We can easily increase the size of the grilling side deck so the door is moved out of the dining. We can also move the screen porch door to the greatroom. I had it in dining for symmetry, but think the furniture arrangement within the screen porch might work better with the door moved anyway.

Please keep the comments coming, I have been so impressed by the knowledge and suggestions in other posts I really appreciate it!

Thanks!!

What do you think of the kitchen layout on the link below (on mine the pantry would be 6 foot wide doorway)?

Now that I am at work today, I see that the picture may not load so here is a link instead (when I read at work and want to see the pix, I have to email the thread home)

Sorry so long! I just saw the tips thread and wanted to be thorough. Thanks again!

What are your goals?
-Efficient, casual, friendly space, 2 seats at dining end of island, access to side grilling porch, open but defined space, while cooking want to easily talk to someone hanging out at the dining table or island and visually connected to great room
-Would like the space to function almost like a galley kitchen with everything happening on the right and bottom sides of floorplan (dont want to go around island to prepare a meal)
-Style craftsman/mountain/cottage, hardwood floors throughout house, including kitchen
-I am drawn to white kitchens but have never wanted white cabs! Is it the cottage feel?
-Budget is a factor, but dont want short-term solutions that would feel wasteful (buy cheap things now and plan to replace in 5-10 years) I buy for the long haul when possible

Do you plan to merge two rooms/areas?
-This will be a kitchen/dining area open to great room, there will be no separate formal dining or living room spaces (living Not So Big for our lifestyle)

Where are you flexible?
-Would prefer not to change footprint/dimensions and this is the general shape I want (L, island, pass thru), but windows/doors/appliance location/sink are all flexible
-Am willing to forgo some upper cabs for a large window

What appliances do you plan on having
-Cooktop (36 inch gas or induction), will probably move to wall for vent hood (Do Not want vent over island)
-Wall oven (30 wide), convection, not decided yet whether single or double (I plan to read up on that next)
-MW built-in, either above a single oven or elsewhere
-Standard DW
-Refrigerator probably freezer on bottom French door with water/ice dispenser (36 wide), standard depth, but considering bumping into pantry if keep on that wall
-No second beverage or wine fridge

Pantry: Walk-in with standing freezer

Is there anything you:
Can't live without?
-Single bowl large sink
-Raised height counters, raised DW if possible (I am 59, DH is 63)
-One level island
-Pull out trash/recycling

Definitely don't want?
-Dont think I need a warming drawer, no wine fridge
-OTR MW
-Vent over island
-Nothing that feels excessive or over-the-top luxurious/decadent (obviously very subjective)

Would like if you can find a way?
-Farmhouse sink (otherwise, undermount)
-Quartz countertop
-Would love wide window(s) behind sink (like some current window ads, Jeld-Wen maybe?)
-Convenient small appliance storage (stand mixer, esp.)
-Would love large pots/pans drawers under or near cooktop
-Cottage feeling without white cabinets
-Love the round little second sinks, but not sure if worth the $$ for me (am going to search here to see if these get used much)

I know well being drawn to white kitchen while not at all interested in white cabinets! I never wanted white cabinets, and when I considered them at all, just knew they weren't 'me.' But I couldn't figure out why all my favorites in magazines and books were white. I looked for what they were 'saying' to me.

To me my particular favorites looked like practical but warm and homey 'baker's kitchens.' A place set up for 'kitchen work' but welcomed the family, too. Like bread should be baking in the oven and pies cooling on the counter...kind of like a family farm kitchen maybe, with a little commercial bakery flavor mixed in.

The white cabinet thing was baffling me for awhile, but then I started to look at other elements that, within those kitchens I liked, communicated what I was looking for. Fist of all, it's a clean, bright look. So simplicity and clean lines can help toward the same result. For me, it seemed that having a wood or butcherblock counter in the room helped a lot. (Not necessary everywhere, but having just a bit of it seemed to add something) Some stainless added a practical, working bakery feel. Also, nice natural light made it warm and welcoming, and I like 'heft' to the elements...Like they're meant to be used, and will take hard use for generations. A lot of my favorite kitchens also highlighted the stove as the home's hearth, and utilized hutches for storage.

You mention 'cottage' feel and I think you can have that without white. Your farmhouse sink is a good start. If you like painted cabinets, you can use a color or colors other than white...from cream or light gray all the way to burgundy or black. You can use a combo of wood and painted. (that's what I'm doing) Or, I think the arts and crafts style with medium stained quarter sawn oak is another classic cottage/bungalow look. Just look through or past the white cabinets in your inspiration kitchens and see what else they have in common that fits or forms your vision.

rhome410, you are my kitchen soulmate and much better at articulating these ideas than I am - you have read my mind and identified exactly the root attractions of my white kitchen yearnings. I can't tell you what a relief it is to have found you and others here who *care* about this stuff as much as I do.

This will no doubt save my relationships with the non-TKO people in my "real" life, as I had no other outlet for constant house/kitchen thoughts and the glazed expressions have become more and more frequent as I agonize over such things as cooktop placement.

Thank you!

((running home to review stacks of mags and clippings))

I think that's why a lot of us are here...No one else understands (or cares to) what we're talking about, and why we talk about it so much and for so long! My sister offered to pay her dd to look through more kitchen plans with her and she wouldn't do it! My kids and dh just groan, and say, "Wait, are you going to show me another kitchen?" They REALLY wonder how I can spend so much time on this forum when all our kitchen decisions are made and it's almost done. They don't understand the value of communicating with people who 'speak' our TKO language!

Glad I could help you with your vision. --Feel free to email me through 'my page' if you want to discuss any more with someone who understands the love-hate thing with white kitchens. :-) As to your layout: Maybe try some of the suggestions and post a new potential layout to encourage more discussion. We want to keep the style you're headed for in mind, but a great layout is paramount. I notice that much more when I'm cooking than what color the cabinets are. ;-)

Reposting with some changes and options feedback please! Dissect, rip it apart, criticize, make suggestions I welcome and appreciate any and all feedback!

This is a new house, havent even broken ground, so there are few limitations. I would prefer to keep the kitchen in the same footprint/dimensions to avoid big changes to overall plans, but obviously if someone spots a serious flaw I can absolutely change!

Im putting the drawings (apologize for quality and handwriting) in line as most seem to prefer that, but also posting a link at the bottom for anyone who cant see the pix here (at work they dont load inline for me) or wants to see the full house plans.

Changes made on all versions:
- side grilling deck door moved closer to cooking and out of dining area (deck will either be shifted toward garage or enlarged so there are no stair/door issues)
- screened porch door moved out of dining to great room
- cooktop moved to wall
- *for now* have decided to have single oven with MW above

A couple things I didnt think to mention before about our location. Our lot is just over 4 acres, steeply sloping down to a creek and road to the north, which is where our best views are and why our full walkout and most windows face that side (top on the floor plans). Our home site provides the largest buffer between us and the slightly wooded mature subdivision to the left/west and the other newer patio home subdivision at the top of the hill to the south. It also puts us closer to the right/east edge of the property line, which runs parallel on the same side as the kitchen. Point being that a window on the kitchen wall may be more for light than view (possible future neighbors house). For this reason, I have also considered transom windows above the cabs instead of the large picture window behind the sink.

Option #1 with fridge near pantry, MW/oven by deck

Pros:
- allows for "hearthlike" cooktop area focal point centered so it would be "framed" by pass thru when looking from great room
- prep area zone fridge/sink, then cooking zone with cooktop/oven/MW/outdoor grill
- fridge can bump into pantry to make counter depth
- grocery unloading would happen closer to the garage and pantry/fridge close to each other
- picture this workflow as fridge to sink to cooktop/oven/MW to serving at either table or island seating
Cons:
- DW location?
- fridge and pantry freezer far from MW
- fridge far from eating areas and both deck and porch
- possible landing area issues for cooktop and MW/oven

Option 1A: 1 big sink in island, no window
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Option 1B: big sink with big window, 2nd sink in island off center, since this is probably not exactly to scale, not sure if this would even work, if it does this is my current fave.
{{gwi:1870888}}

Option #2 with fridge near deck, cooktop on pantry wall. It is based off suggestions from celcticmoon, so I hope I interpreted correctly. Again, probably not to scale for appliance/sink size.

Pros:
- cooktop is on wall
- fridge is convenient to eating and both deck and porch
- allows for sink on wall and big window
- good landing space next to cooktop
- convenient MW access for frozen dinner/pizza/etc. from pantry freezer
- as said best by celcticmoon "Allows the MW snacking, fridge, serving, pass through activity to operate independently of the core work triangle of fridge, range, sink."

Cons
- fridge will stick out
- possible landing area issues for cooktop and MW/oven
- fridge far from MW
- cooktop and MW/oven far from eating area, when cooking, back is to seating
- groceries would have to be carried further and would imagine fridge groceries sorted out on island and everything else hauled back to pantry/freezer
{{gwi:1870889}}

My main concern is that DH currently does most of the daily cooking so I personally dont have the greatest concept of practical workflow. Thinking back to my past habits, I enjoyed and regularly cooked only when I had kitchens I liked spending time in (my parents and one of my college apartments). They were both open, aesthetically pleasing and bright and at least *mostly*, even if not perfect, functional design. Of the ones where I wouldnt stay in long enough to cook, one was an unpleasant, icky, ugly place to be (college townhouse). The other was our last house where we remodeled the kitchen so it was pretty, but it was isolated with one smallish window. I tried to cook there at first, but felt antsy to rejoin the rest of the house. Our current rental kitchen is old, dark and isolated I spend as little time there as possible. My dream is to have a highly functional version of the open, bright, pretty kitchens. I know this probably sounds overly obvious, but I thought it important to note that, while I dont currently cook and need lots of help with the functional part, I do foresee both DH and I doing a lot of cooking in this new kitchen.

Hope I havent rambled too much and thank you for reading. Thank you to celticmoon, bmorepanic and rhome410 for the previous suggestions and TIA to anyone who replies here!

We're (I'm) also planning our dream home for building in 2 or 4 years so I have lots of thoughts/ideas about your plan. Love the wide range of ideas/opinions I've found on GardenWeb and I hope my ideas help at all.
1. Think about adding a closet to the office so it can more easily be used/listed as a bedroom someday if desired.
2. Think about dividing the downstairs bath so the toilet or toilet/tub are doored off. This is very convenient when people share the bath.
3. The 1/2 bath is not very accessible to the decks and yard for kids running in. And it can be embarrassing for guests to obviously going to the loo. Can you afford another 1/2 bath in the laundry/pantry area OR open an entry through the bench area of the family entry and move the sink to beside the toilet?
4. I would put the stove top on the sink wall to the right of the DW. Ive lived with this designwith a huge window that stretched the length from sink to stove top (down draft on outside wall would work). The counter above the DW is the favorite prep spot because of the window.
5. Are you or your husband a "view" person? After living in 18 houses (army), I realize that my favorite homes had a view out at least 1 direction and I would set up my desk, chair, prep areas... to see out whenever possible. If you are "view" people, you might split the island and put the fridge on the wall to the right of your pass-through. Then you can see the deck from the sink. You can use the N island for prep and look out at your best view to the north, the S island for sorting groceries and also have easier access from the sink to the pass-through making that counter more useful.
Best wishes on your build. Sounds like a lovely location.

mizmcd, thanks for the ideas! You obviously have lots of experience :-). I am a little confused about #4 - when you say "stove top on the sink wall to the right of the DW", which picture are you referring to? (The very first floorplan or one of the handdrawn options?)

Thanks!