Sorry, I didn't catch what your countertop material is -- stone? It doesn't sound attractive to have the substrate sticking out from under the stone, if that's what you mean by "roughtop". Plus that might be a really inconvenient little ledge that catches food crumbs and drips, esp. right there by the range. I'd try to get that fixed.

In terms of tolerances, 1/8" gap difference doesn't sound too hideous, offhand, but I'm no perfectionist. The stone experts will be able to give you more insight.

Courage!

whups, I meant the 1/16" gap, not 1/8".

Do you have any photos?

What is the exact distance from cabinet to cabinet, and from countertop to countertop, and from substrate edge (you call it the roughtop) to substrate edge, at the range cutout?

Range manufacturers specify a certain width of cutout. The cutout has to leave a gap, so that the range can be physically moved in and out for service, replacement, repair, etc.

But there is a slight inconsistency in the industry. For example, Wolf specifies a 36 1/4'' cutout for a ''36 inch'' range, meaning the range is exactly the advertised width and the cutout has to be 1/8'' larger, But GE Cafe installation instructions specify a 30'' cutout for a ''30 inch'' range, meaning that the range is a bit narrower (probably 1/8'') than the advertised width. My Frigidaire measures 29 1/8'' for a ''30 inch'' range.

So, if you have your range on site and in place, when the cabinet is measured, built, and installed and the counter is templated, cut, and installed, at best you can get a 1/8'' gap. More likely you get a 1/4'' gap - do they know if you or future owners will get a Wolf, or a GE?

If you want no ''visible'' gap, get a cooktop or a slide-in or drop-in range, these are designed with an overhang that covers up the gap, or have trim kits that do the same. Or, caulk in the gap with colored silicone, but accept that you'll be cutting away the caulk when the range is moved.

The counter not being flush to the substrate is slightly irritating. Is the counter 1/8'' too short, or the substrate 1/8'' too long? Does the substrate overhang the cabinet by 1/8''? Maybe you can pull out the range and trim back or bevel the substrate. I mean, if it matters to you.

The range height is adjustable. Hopefully that will get you the appropriate height. In my view, you want the cooking surface - the top of the grates - at the same height as the counter top. Not the top of the range's upper panel. Reason - when you are sliding a heavy pot from counter to burners, you don't want to ''trip'' it on the grate and spill boiling oil all over your small child.

Sorry, for Wolf I said ''36 1/4'' and then I said ''1/8 larger'' - I'm not sure which is right as I've closed that tab - anyway, you get the idea.

Sorry all -- the countertop is made of raingorest green, dunno marble I think. There seem to be various opinions about what it is in stonecutter-parlance. Maybe a serpentine? Anyway, it's hard, maybe not as hard as some stone but I wouldn't want to hit my head against it.

Peanut - yes, that's exactly what I mean and the cleaning-gap problem is just what I'm worried about.

OK, so there are two sets of measurements, though I'm only complaining about one.

For reference, my range has been long-sitting in the house and available for any and all to measure precisely by walking 4 feet to its resting spot. Not to mention using specs.

There's the distance between counters that the range fits into. That's got a larger gap than I should think would be necessary considering, but still, I understand you have to wiggle things in, etc. There turns out to be a 1/4" gap on the left side of the range and a 3/16" gap on the right. That's 7/16" or almost 1/2" overall -- seems more than the doctor ordered, but maybe it's pretty necessary in practice. I think this seems sloppy and annoying, but I'm not quite so irked by it as the second measurement.

The second measurement involves the edge on the left side. It involves the "substrate" and the countertop is 1/8" short of it. Thus if something were flush against the cabinet edge there would still be a 1/8" gap looking down into a plywood maw.

The range height is a different issue. It's a capitol and for some reason their legs only extend 36 5/8" in theory, less in practice I think. They're actually on the job thinking about the problem; probably they'll use castors which is nice of them. It's only an issue at the moment regarding this in that because it is currently set low I hadn't noticed that 1/8" plywood maw problem.

I'll try to post a photo but it didn't seem to see much; running out now though.

Thanks for your thoughts.

If I'm understanding the situation correctly, you're saying that the substrate is flush with the end of the cabinet, but stone countertop actually does not extend all the way to the end of the cabinet? Not that the stone is an ok length but the substrate is too long - if that were it, then presumably it could simply be cut back.

If it is indeed the former, that sounds like a completely unacceptable fabrication error.

Hi dee - if the substrate could be cut back that would be great; but no dice.

I realize the problem is with the substrate: it was cut 1/8" short of the cabinet edge. The stone guys fit their stone smack dab on top of the substrate; the substrate falls short. And thus the stone does too.

grrr.

I think it probably is an unacceptable error on the part of the cabinet guys who put down the roughtop and also the stone guys who didn't notice it wasn't flush. OTOH, what are you going to do? I'm not going to make them do it over, that would be like asking them to give me, dunno 2K or 3K. That's rather too much of a punishment, and I haven't the chutzpah even if I thought the problem warranted it (which I don't)!

I'll be interested to hear what solution they do offer tomorrow; the cabinet guy said "there's always a solution".

Best is to do it right the first time. sigh.

justakitchenjustakitchenjustakitchennoonesdeadorinthehospital.ohmmmmm. :-)

How big is the counter that would have to be replaced? Somehow I had the impression that it was just a short run so 2 to 3K sounds high for what it would cost them to replace it.

In any case, I can understand your dilemma. We had a similar one. When they were making the cut out for our rangetop on sight, they ran slightly off course. This is in a 4' by 8' island countertop. The stone was one where we were very fortunate to find slabs big enough to do it in one piece and we had bought them more than 6 months earlier so that lot was long sold and it was very likely that they wouldn't find big enough slabs available. And we really liked the pattern on the stone we had. And it was an expensive stone - if they found something the perfect size with no waste it would be around 2K for the slab - not counting fab.

We talked about it and they came up with a solution that made us all happy. For us, the result is better than if the mistake hadn't been made. They cut trim pieces of our stone to frame our rangetop. It covered the error. It also covered the back of the rangetop island trim which otherwise would have two utilitarian screw heads showing.

Of course, that solution wouldn't work in your case because the range needs to be able to slide in and is suppose to have a gap, but maybe there is something else they can do. Perhaps cutting some kind of molding strip from your marble to cover the gap to the edge of the cabinet - though it would seem odd unless they were able to do that on both sides or had a scrap that matched the pattern enough that the seam disappeared.

Hi Cloud - I remember seeing this solution of yours before. It's really great; instructive as to how things can be fixed.

What ended up happening is the cabinet and stone guys were in today. The cabinet guy unscrewed the short run to the R of the range that was 3/16" off and had flush countertop and roughtop. Then he shoved the range closer to the L side of the range which is where the roughtop is shy of the cabinet box. He replaced the short stretch completely flush so now overall the gap available to the range is about 1/4". When the range gets fiddled for other reasons the anti-tip thing can be rejiggered and the 1/4" spread between both sides of the range. The L side will still have that 1/8" additional gap where countertop and roughtop don't meet. The R side won't. I'm hopeful that the roughtop 1" below coutertop height won't show once the range has been raised properly.

Hope that made some sense. It seems as good a solution as possibl.e It looks a lot better now than it did. Waiting on the jacking-up of the range still.

The countertop guys made yet more mistakes again today when they came to fix their previous mistakes. Geesh. Sometimes you just want to cut and run. I ended up calling up my tile guy to check on whether I needed these guys to come back yet again with no reasonable likelihood of any improvement. He said he thought he could cover up their mistakes.

Funny, I took these guys though more pricey because of the assurance provided by their long-term relationship with the cabinet guys. I guess this has kept them coming back to try again, but hasn't, still, resulted in the sort of quality promised and hoped for.

The cabinet guys, while also full of their own bags of mistakes, are at least unfailingly pleasant, even when I'm not, in fact. It makes an enormous difference. There's another thread going here about intelligence but really, as in school, all I really want at the end of the day is niceness and pleasantness. We can fill in the edges around the rest, like cloud's stovetop above. Intelligence is overrated; meanness and incompetence under-so.

i wonder if you can cover the " roughtop 1" below coutertop height " with a bit of wood? Some nice looking wood. A thin piece.