In your pictures, you show a small cabinet (with pens and basket) across from your peninsula that seems to be between two doors. I don't see that space on your new plan. Are you closing a doorway? Is it your ideal to have the desk by the window? I like your new plan.

Are you leaving the same amount of space at the back of the new cooktop as the old? Current guidelines ask for even more, but I would aim to keep at least what you have now.

Hi, Dilly, that small beech cabinet with pens is kind of at the entrance to my kitchen and will go away and the built in desk will take its place. It is a small box on the lower left of the following drawing of my current kitchen layout. Note that the dimensions are correct, but I did not know how to build it to scale in Paint.

{{!gwi}}

Another question I have is to please look at elevations with the Stove. Currently, I have more workspace to the right than to the left. We moved the stove down as part of one of those domino chains: Wanted a lazy susan and if we moved the sink even more to the right, it would be half under the window and half not. So we flipped the dishwasher and sink so that the sink is almost exactly centered under the window (which I have always wanted).

General advice was to move the stove down so that the doors would never hit each other. Also, gives me a bigger workspace to the left of the stove for my prep/workspace, rather than to the right. I think I will like that better as my family keeps trying to put things there.

We are also leaning toward combining these two drawings, the lower glass doors, for our dishes, and then we can open the doors from the table side. And the Island-mount hood with no cabinets above it.

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

I agree with palimpset regarding your space for your cooktop. Most manufacturers have minimums that they require for their product. Many countertop materials also have minimums as well to prevent problems too.

I am not surprised that your kitchen feels crowded in the morning right now. Your frig door blocks the entrance to where your dishes are stored based on what I see in your pictures. Changing to a French door style might help that a bit.

But I am wondering about doing some other changes instead to open up your kitchen. Why not move your frig to that open area, put up a false thin wall to give you electrical/water and hide the back of the frig. Frame that with cabinets and the MW. Move your doorways to give you deeper cabinets on that new frig wall. And borrow some room from whatever room is on the far side of your cooktop to widen your U shape counter spaces. Plan your peninsula so that you can access cabinets on all three sides. You can store infrequently used items in those cabinets.. I often think that U shape kitchens need a diamond layout instead of the triangle. And if possible eliminate some of those cabinets above your cooktop. I know space is a premium but it will really open up the feel of your kitchen.

Good Luck!

Please visit our website at LeoClaudioCabinets.com
Sophisticated design solutions and a full range of services for a variety of lifestyles. We provide you with a unique opportunity to share in the design process. Discover your creativity using our versatile compositional solutions, both custom and standard, infinite choices of material, finishes and colors to compliment the aesthetic elements of your home
Call us for your free estimate today!
Thank You

Currently your refrig is too far from eating area. Every glass of milk or forgotten butter container requires someone to do an extra trot into the main walkway and it traps people inside the U. Try putting refrig where desk is in your new plan and work from there. You might have to shorten peninsula.
___

Plan a sandwich station / leftovers prep / cereal storage that is away from the central triangle of the kitchen but close by the refrig & microwave. When you have kids you shouldn't need them standing behind you while you work inside a tight cooking & cleanup triangle.
__

Is there a way to add a second sink or at the least a drinking water dispenser away from the working kitchen?
__
Yes, dishes should be stored on the path between prepared food and eating area with the DW on that path too.
___
Your kitchen is oriented toward the former dining room. Since you don't have a dining room now, how often do you enter living room and office from the kitchen? Is the walkpath a donut--do they also connect up to the entry area? Could that doorway in kitchen be closed off? The U would grow to be the perimeter of the kitchen and an island could help bridge the width for efficiency.

I think it is the NKBA who makes the recommendation of counter depth at the back of a cooktop or range. I don't think it is any kind of code issue.

The potential is if it is too close, people could knock off pans from the back and get burned. The the 10 inches or so that you have (since the excess depth of the range sticks out in front) should be enough *in *my *opinion, but it is under the recommended NKBA.

I am of the opinion it is enough because there is *no clearance required at the front, and pots can be knocked off in that direction too. 10" and judicial pot handle placement should keep it pretty safe. I think most people aren't so clueless that they won't realize there is a stove there. There is not enough clearance for counter seating in this case.

If you are using a conventional range there, it will have its own backguard. (Some slide-ins even have a short one--mine does.) In that case the back of the range will have to have a short piece of granite or something to cover the back of the backguard.

Hi, everyone, I appreciate all of the ideas! I have spent today mulling them over, digging up the specs. I currently have 11 inches behind my stove (there is an extra strip of metal that you may think is part of the stove, but it is applied on my laminate counter, so total 11 inches). The universal design guideline we found was 9 inches. So we are good now, but don't want to go smaller.

A few other answers first:
--don't want to close off the office area; I pop in there to help with homework, and always that resale thing.
--Definitely thinking that extra toaster counter could be for things like sandwich making/kids snacks.
--did buy a 33wide French Door Refrigerator
--you are dead on that really the fridge ought to be closer to the table, but always a trade-off so not sure if we will.

Earthpal, not entirely envisioning the open area where the fridge can go. I'm guessing you mean that 5'8, but that is a wide entry way where the front door is on the other end

I am however cutting down the cabinets that are on the island from the photos. They will only be to the left of the hood and they will be glass (both sides) to increase the natural light and flow. Will put our dishes and china there.

Everyone, the reason I was bumping my U a little larger began with wanting a Lazy Susan for that bottom corner to the left of the sink. There wasn't room for the traditional lazy susan plus a sink plus a dishwasher.

So....here's my latest idea: I saw this storage system in a showroom. If I go with this instead of the lazy susan, I do not need to make my U bigger. Tell me what you think...thanks so much!

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21792&rrt=1

There are also the half circles, but they look less useful to me:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=half-circle+lazy+susan+cabinet&hl=en&biw=1440&bih=742&prmd=ivns&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=13407909298862330655&sa=X&ei=_7L6TdvTLozciALSr_2WBQ&ved=0CE4Q8wIwAA

Oh, to clarify, I saw the half circles in a show room. The squarish ones I only found online, part of why I'm asking if you have any experiences good or bad with them.

I'm thinking chop off the peninsula and make it an island. Looks like you could fit about a 3' by 4' island in there.

I did a lot of thinking over the last several years, and given how small the island would need to be, I'm not sure if the extra 2-foot walkway from the table would be that well-used or be worth giving up the cabinetry.

Fair enough. FWIW I have a 3'x4' island in my kitchen and it feels quite spacious. But mine is a solid expanse with no sinks or appliances in it. You may have to install the cooktop in the island if you went that way. Or, perhaps you could put the cooktop to the right of the sink since you're going to move the sink left anyway. Remember, if you turned the peninsula into an island you gain two feet of usable counter space where the knives are currently sitting in that top picture. As you noted, however, you would lose those upper cabinets over the peninsula but I think a lot of people like doing that to open the space up. You would likely have a net gain in usable lower cabinet space though.

We have a u-shape kitchen, redone several years ago, and we kept the U. Going against advice to get an island. It's not your usual GW kitchen but works for us.

As a result I began collecting photos of U's and have a whole folder. (Kind of like the Save the Pink Bathroom people) Would you like some photos of redone u-shapes? They are mostly white/ivory, but some are stained wood. If you specify white with dark counters, or whatever, I'll try to oblige. :)

I find a picture is worth 1000 words.

I think the U is really the only way to go in this kitchen if you want to keep all the function on one side of the traffic pattern. An island without either the range or sink on it would not be useful, and the island would not be large enough to contain either function.

The fridge IS across the kitchen from the table, but at the End of the work zone and its only about 12 feet from the face of the fridge to the table: thats hardly a hike.

BIochem101, could I get some pictures of redone U-shapes from you? I have a similar kitchen to this one but the originally planned expansion of the kitchen came in $$$ more than I expected. My kitchen is very similar to the posted one in current layout and dimensions.

Colorfast, The Rockler product is similar to the cheaper Lee Valley blind corner cabinet units which have been used by several members on the Ikeafans site.If you search over there, there are lots of postings on it.

The following kitchens (some of which have been flipped to show the same angle) all have your same basic layout, although some obviously larger. But vary with placement of range, fridge, sink and seating.
IMO they all look very nice. (If anyone likes these they should right click and save the pics to their computer. I don't always keep them up forever.)

Hope looking at these helps you to decide which features you'd like in yours. Good Luck!

From One Fellow U-Shaper to another. :)

Large high end ivory U with black hood and wide peninsula seating overhang.

Lovely Ivory U with raised peninsula seating and soffits.

Large open U, with fridge and range same wall.

Simple cabs, cool backsplash, fridge/ovens far side, peninsula cooktop w/downdraft.

Small but classy. Slide-in range with wall niche above, peninsula seating.

Range at bottom of U, raised peninsula bar seating with sink behind it.

Range at bottom of U, flat peninsula counter seating with sink.

Angled cab next to range, farm sink, wine cubbies outside peninsula.

Wooden hood, bump-out sink cab, flat peninsula, glass cabs at window.

Wooden hood w/shelf, curved peninsula seating, plate rack.

Raised peninsula seating on other side of archway, glass cabs, farm sink.

White cabs - white counter look, butcher block inset.

If you would like to see wood-stained or modern U's, let me know.

Enjoy!

Didn't mean to discriminate.
Here are a few stained-wood style U-shaped kitchens:

Very nicely done small U-shape w/stained wood and upper glass cabs.

Light wood, Fridge/range same wall, raised peninsula seating, All-Glass Cab.

Interesting placement of range/sink same wall, small peninsula w/overhang.

As you can see, there is actually a lot of different things that can be done with a little U-Shape Kitchen!

I will be looking for your new and improved U's when they show up. :)

A lot of beautiful kitchens on those pictures. But notice there's one common thing about every one of them, they've all eliminated the cabinets above the peninsula.

Well, I have to admit I did too (remove the overhang).

Original plan was to keep one cabinet sideways on the end, but after seeing virtually NO pictures with that, I changed my mind. It was a struggle to come up with a solution for storage. Not all of my soffits could come down, but the part over the fridge could. So I built a big cabinet up there that holds the not-often-used stuff. Although I can reach the front 10" so there is a row of useful items right in front.

I also put a tall cabinet to the counter (appliance garage) on the peninsula end of my row (which no one else with a U seems to have done?). My kitchen is pretty odd, I think. But it works for me. :)

Two questions I could use your help with.

I got my cabinet sample door and red birch it is. The cabinetmaker will look over the centers before the doors are made; my husband did not entirely like that particular pattern. Otherwise, I am very happy. It is richer than the others I looked at without being as dark as cherry.

Yes, I definitely noticed that people removed the overhead cabinets. My compromise is to do glass doors both sides, to add some light and only have them to the left of my range.

I have a question related to that:

1. If I do 3" rails--which look really pretty with the red birch, is that too thick of a rail for the glass doors? The cabs are 14" wide, and 36 high.

What do you think? Too big a rail, and if so, should I scale them back everywhere or what?

2. Also, I'd originally said plywood shelves, but now my husband thinks, go for the plate glass and the lights above, why do this half way? We will be putting our dishes in there regularly. Builder said the plate glass is strong enough to walk on.

Thanks....

A number of people here have done that. You might look at the kitchens of : Berf, gracesantacruz, MollyB2 and paigeysmom in the FKB.

The Finished Kitchen Blog link can be found in the Read Me and Keep on Page 1 thread.

You might try emailing them for details as to how they did it. Your glass would be 8". I think it could be done, but would it give the 'see through' effect? Probably not. The cabinets themselves will still be there.

Look at their photos and you'll see what I mean.

I think I might be wrong about the Berf and MollyB2 kitchens, but it's difficult to see. The albums are no longer up, either.

Grace and Paigeysmom, yes. Glass all the through.

Have you considered storage solutions elsewhere? Like a builtin hutch in the dining area on another wall possibly?

Some do a narrow lower and upper cabinet set gaining dish storage and a buffet.

I have seen this cabinet maker's pictures he showed me, so I do have a good idea of what his final look would be with the glass shelves. Would they be sturdy enough for every day use? I think so, but hoping to hear people's views on that.
I will try to find Grace and Paigeysmom's pages. The more the better.

I do also see functionality in the cabinet location, as we will be putting our dishes in one side and taking them out on the table side for setting.

Probably all of you have much longer narratives to your remodeling decisions as well, but biochem you have hit on a key one that has held up our remodel by a couple of months, and that was seeking other storage options. We were right on your page, and had lots of people visit and study it in person.
You are exactly right, there is not room to add a hutch unless you dig into a wall and borrow from another room. We really only have one potential candidate, but the problem is that we are in a tri-level and the family room is enough lower, that any cabinets cannot go very high or they would be in my upstairs shower. Then, if they are low, the clearance to the table (or any table) is not very much. I have masking taped it out, and the max cabinet door width would maybe be a foot. Otherwise, you have to move the table and make people get up to open your cabinet.

After all the drawings and meetings and measuring, I finally concluded that wishing something to work was not going to happen. I needed to be practical. (Of course, the true solution would be to bump out into the back yard. We wouldn't have that kind of money until the kids are raised and gone, though.)

Sorry if that was too long, hopefully it will help others with smaller kitchens with their thought process.

On other fronts, we are back to our original U to accommodate the the 9 inches behind the stove, which people here wisely pointed out that I needed. Do I try filling in that few inches with extra cabinet (it's not enough room for a real breakfast bar). Or just have the granite overhang? That is one question.

And the other question to finish is the glass cabinet, glass or wood shelves. 3" rails or narrower, and if narrower, then be consistent through the whole kitchen?

My goal is to be nearly complete by the end of the summer, that is still within our reach if I get my order in really soon.

Thanks for all of your help and thoughts already. I truly appreciate all of them....

thanks biochem101 for posting all those pictures! I havn't had time to digest them but I really appreciate it!
scrappy25

Your Welcome!

(....considering changing name to UShape101....)

I did two kitchens with very narrow overhangs, more for increased counterdepth than for seating: one is 9" and the other is 11.5".

The 9" one was never meant for seating at all but their kids like to sit there.

The 11.5" one has stools, and is good for a snack or using a laptop for a while but is not that comfortable for the long term. The client is short, but we sit a bit sideways there.

I would say leave it at the depth that works for the table seating area, and maybe a stool can go on the part not directly behind the range for occasional seating, but I wouldn't count on it as "seating" except occasionally.

Thanks, Palimpsest.

We are probably going to go back to that 9 inch overhang rather than build the cabinets to their edge. The extra amount of cabinet would be so minimal for the cost I don't see a value there.

Another thing I have used the overhang for is as part of a buffet--the plates, napkins and silverware, condiments. I just line them up along there. I also do this if we have a bigger barbecue outside.

Also, I think we are backing off on the wider rails on the cabinet doors and going to 2.25".