Is it possible to post a layout with dimensions? I feel like the banquette area is very very cramped. I'm also thinking about flipping the DW to the other side of the sink (and not centering the sink) to give more prep space between the sink and range. I feel like you have alot of "not as functional as it could be" counterspace to the right of the Dw.

sure thing. Here's a layout with measurements. My thought was to have the dishes and glasses well clear of the cooking area in the cabinets by the dining room, so that's why I put the dishwasher to the right of the sink.

{{gwi:1893414}}

Another note. In that counter area to the right of the sink I've shown the microwave. My thought is that I'd also have other appliances that live on the counter over there. Panini maker, coffee maker, coffee grinder and toaster.

I have considered reversing the double upper cabinet and open shelving, bumping out the cabinet to 16" and having a large appliance garage underneath (we don't need a large microwave).

Welcome to the forum!

I'm in the same place with you are in that I have a 13 foot and change wide room so I have been fiddling with these issues for a long time.

Here are my first thoughts:

I doubt you'll be doing much prepping on the refrigerator side of the island (feels too much in a traffic lane, to me) so the sink may be oriented on the wrong side. I think you'll be prepping while standing in the aisle between stove and island (and around the stove and sink). If the island sink is mainly for beverage service and non-cook hand washing there may be a better place for it. I plan to have a prep sink on my narrow island, but with a faucet beside it, not behind it, to make it more useful from both sides.

Some people have criticized my own plan with its 26" island as being too narrow for meaningful work. I made a full scale mock-up and worked with it for a few weeks and discovered it worked quite well for what I wanted it to do which wasn't big things like major baking projects (spread out decorating oookies, etc.). I wanted it for second-cook tasks like salad prep and for the plating station. I suggest you set up a "prep" counter of this width and size and see if you like it.

Thirty six inches of aisle within your main work corridor is a little tight (though others have done it and are content with it). It would mainly be an issue if you plan to have anyone else cooking at the same time. Then 36" is too tight, with not enough rump room. How far does your oven door drop down and is it completely offset from the island? If part of the door is behind the island you may have an awkward time removing hot dishes.

One area I think you might want to reconsider: whether it works for you to have the cooking/prep space and the clean-up zone essentially in the same place - and with only 36" aisle.

Another thought is the flow of plates and dishes - if you had the DW (swapping the placement of range and DW) on the banquette side of the main sink then food and plates wouldn't have to cross.

Think about your family and visitors: where and what will they be doing while you're cooking? Not only what they do now, but what they might do if the plan or circumstances change. We are a couple and my DH doesn't like to just sit around and watch me me cook (nor do I like that), but he is interested in doing something low-key (arrange table, make salad, toast, warm up soup in the MW, do clean up etc.) so we planned an arrangement specifically to support those things, while keeping the main cooking aisle pretty much a one-person zone (though with 41" aisle counter-edge to counter-edge). Our main clean-up sink is not in the cooking aisle, like yours is.

I'll toss this out as an alternative: I spent some time working on a plan that had all of the major items (fridge, sink and range on a single counter run. It had two short right angle legs, but was essentially a galley. This counter was 30" deep to max out close-in storage. The plan had a deeper island (though still not one you could sit at in the common way). The opposite side of the kitchen was a full bank of storage with floor to ceiling cabs, some with a moderately bumped out lower section, some with books shelves for my large collection of cookbooks, but mostly closed storage. This bank of cabinets was only about 18" deep (at the max) which is how I "bought" space for the deeper main counter and the slightly wider island. I was planning to use visual cues (pattern on floor, for instance, and lighting and a hanging pot rack over the island ) to keep transients out of the "flight deck" around the main services. This would have worked for me, because I don't entertain in my kitchen, have no kids running in and out, etc. but perhaps it might not for you. I am also used to having the bulk of my food stored in a pantry room not in my kitchen so I didn't mind doing a little bit of fetching from the storage area.

(In the end I discarded this all-in-one aisle plan because it didn't work at if there were two cooks -plus I already own a 48" range -and I didn't want to get rid of it- so that made the single counter run too cramped for space to include the big sink I wanted.)

I have some concerns over the banquette seating as well. It seems to have two significantly different seat widths. Banquette seating isn't very flexible and if you get the back to front dimensions wrong, it's hell.

Another thing to do is give a lot of thought to is traffic patterns in the adjacent rooms. The most perfectly-planned kitchen that intercepts important pathways without providing good alternatives will always seem crowded as people will default to the most convenient route.

I agree with remodelfla - a plan, with dimensions, will really help us help you. Computer elevations and bird's eye views are really hard to work with. One done on graph paper is the best starting point, I've found. A simple drawing that you can use to walk yourself through the various meals over and over (I drew colored lines) really helps work out the kinks of a plan. My goal was for minimal crisscrossing and a strong directoional flow for the tasks.

Please don't be daunted if it feels like your plan, which has been hatching in your mind for awhile, gets pushed and pulled in many directions as it's discussed here. Some of our suggestions will be un-useful, but I found that even the ones I didn't like forced me to clarify my thinking, which was useful to me in identifying the things that weere critical to my goals (whether style, cost or utilization).

HTH,

L

I don't know how close to reality the depiction of your cabinets are, but my kitchen has very similar dimensions to yours and I noted one area of concern. I have 35" counter to counter between my island and sink wall, and at one point it narrows down to 31" for the last 17" of island. However, it works well for us and one of the reasons that it functions fine is because of foot space. Both my island and my sink wall cabs have toekick space. As a matter of of fact, my island has a deep toekick because I have feet on my island, too. In your drawings, your island has no toe kick on the side facing the sink wall. It will definitely be tight, not because the cabinets are only 36" or less apart, but because you'll have to stand away from the island to stand comfortably.

Because my fridge is offset from the end of the island, the 38" aisle on that side is no issue, either.

Helene

I do admit that I'm not likely to do most of my cooking prep on the island, but the sink was because the island blocks access between the stove and main sink. However, what if I put the prep sink at the end of the peninsula. That way I'll do my prep work on the peninsula between the stove and prep sink, and not so much in the space between the stove and the main sink (in the narrow aisle).

The oven door will be completely offset from the island, so that should be a problem (same with the dishwasher door).

With this design the island becomes a breakfast/lunch prep space, or a space for somebody to do secondary activities in the kitchen without getting in the way of the main cook.

The banquette seating I haven't really figured out yet to my satisfaction. I'm the sort of person that always seeks out bench seating in restaurants, so I like the idea in general, but I haven't yet found an arrangement I'm happy with. I just really like the idea of sitting sideways on the bench with a glass of wine if my wife is cooking or sitting looking out at the back yard with my morning coffee. The breakfast area is about 7 1/2' along the side wall, and 9 1/2' on the back wall. However, the whole point of the remodel is to have a large glass door on the back wall so that makes things trickier. It's basically just for 3-4 people to eat at however.

Here's the kitchen layout overlayed with a 1' grid if that helps:

{{gwi:1893415}}

I like that software. What is that?

You have called your counters 2' but the actual counter overhang could be anywhere from 3/4" to 1 1/4" and if you multiply that by 3 you will lose even more aisle space.

Someone may have mentioned that but I can't read your posts because it's really stretched out for some reason.

I'm not sure what the deal with the width is. Something about the jpegs I'm embedding (although the web page seems to be even wider than the pics).

The software is Google sketchup rendered with Kerkythea. Both free programs, but not the easiest to use (you can do a lot of stuff with them, though).

Quick random thoughts.

If you switched the fridge and the laundry nook, the fridge would not open directly into the island, thus easing some aisle width issues.

Can you steal another foot from whatever is at the bottom of the plan views? Even another 8''?

My feeling is the main prep will take place when you're standing in the aisle between the range/large sink counter and the island (let's call it the ''protected aisle''). Maybe you'll use the island to prep, but you'll stand in the protected aisle. I have a hard time seeing myself standing in the ''traffic aisle'' to prep on a fairly small island.

I'm thinking the traffic aisle will be more naturally used by whoever is opening a bottle of wine, tossing a salad, making coffee, assembling the hors d'oeuvres - beverages and secondary prep, as it were.

So a little prep sink in the island would definitely be handy, but I'd make it usable from both sides as lidodendron described. Also, the trash should accessible to both aisles, maybe on the end of the island? It may be handy to have the microwave accessible to both zones too, e.g. in a cubby on the end of the island above the trash pullout.

A double dishdrawer will block the aisle much less than a conventional bottom hinged dishwasher.

The kitchen feels a bit tight on pantry space, but maybe it can't be helped.

You know what I would do for the island placement? I would have the kitchen built and done, but the island not actually screwed down (and the prep sink plumbing not connected). Protect the floor under the island with something. Then I would cook some meals, have a dinner party, and play with moving the island a bit one way or the other, trading inches here and there. A week later, have the island screwed down.

I would consider making the banquette table higher than ''table'' height, closer to ''counter'' height, so that it can be overflow workspace. This will also reduce the legroom needed, a bit, as people don't sprawl out as much when on higher seating.

Your kitchen space, as reconfigured, is very similar to mine, so this is interesting to me. I don't have the banquette space, my range will be on the short leg of the ''L'', I plan two sinks on the long leg, and my island won't have a sink. My refrigerator is in roughly the same place, and I also have very similar traffic flow to worry about. Our houses were even built just two years apart.

Hmm - what will the peninsula counter, at the banquette, be used for? Serving when dining at the banquette, of course. But during big meal projects? It is a nicely protected spot, yet sociable too. If there were only water nearby, it would be a nice prep spot. So, ideally the island prep sink, trash, and microwave would be accessible to someone standing there as well.

personally, I'd create an island with overhang -think shelves/decorative legs..with a stool or two.If you can move it over somewhat, then you can travel between frig, stove, sink better. that eliminates need for sink in island.Your main sink is a focal point with the window and is quite roomy. people coming into kitchen from liv rm will land on stools and interact with cook/as opposed to going to far end and sitting in banquette which holes them up and they can't see what is going on.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm leaning towards putting the prep sink at the end of the peninsula and having that be the main prep area. Since the sink and refrigerator will be pretty close to their current positions in the kitchen, I'm going to haul out a 4'x2' ikea table we have in the laundry to the middle of the kitchen and see how it feels.