I just read thread "OH NO will my refrigerator door open?" and it makes me wonder if my frig being backed up to pantry wall will be a problem. I was planning on French doors with bottom freezer. I'm meeting with builder this weekend so what should I ask to make sure it's not a problem? I'm so new to all of this that I need help to avoid major mistakes.

I think that the wall could be a problem. The door needs to stick out atleast the depth of the door itself beyond the pantry.

Thanks che1sea. I'll check to see if the wall in pantry clears the door hinge sufficiently. Perhaps I should switch the frig with the mail center so it is on the end of the U??

I'd love more input! Please!!

Even if that door sticks out beyond the edge of the pantry wall, you may still have a problem. Many (most?) refrigerators need their doors opened very wide for the drawers to be accessible. Some need to open back 180 degrees from the closed position. You'll want to check your fridge model carefully for this particular requirement.

About your specific questions...

#1-I don't think it matters much which way the door swings, because it's unlikely those two doors will ever need to be opened at the same time.

#2-Yes, I would move the cooktop down away from the ovens, but mostly because I find 12" cabinets and drawers to be practically useless. In addition to having a better landing space to the left of the stove, you'd have more useful space below that landing.

#3-I'd put the microwave in the island. I use my microwave much like you do (i.e., for the occasional reheating or butter melting duties), and I LOVE having my microwave in my island. It gets it off the counter, doesn't take up overhead cabinet space, and is still really convenient.

#4-Why is the walkway in front of the fridge so much smaller (6") than the walkway in front of the adjacent counter? I understand that the door protrudes, but 6" would be unusual. Are you counting the door handles? If so, you don't need to include these in your measurement. The 3" or so for the door leaves you with 39" to the island. If all that's correct, you should be OK. A few inches more might be nice, but not essential, by any means. We have about 42" and it's more than enough, so 39" would likely be enough.

#5-With your layout, a prep sink really isn't necessary. You have sufficient prep space between your clean-up sink and the stove that you really don't need it. That said, I love having my prep sink and it means that most of my prep is done on the island. Mine is toward one end of the island. It's close enough to the end to reach it from two sides, but it's far enough away to leave some landing space on the end of the island. If you don't do much cooking, though, it's probably not worth the added expense.

Thanks holligator! I really value being able to brainstorm with you!

To answer your question, I must've included frig handles in my measurements so you are right in saying 39" is more accurate for walkway between frig and island.

I just talked with builder and he agrees that frig against pantry may be a problem as wall will stick out further than frig so now I'd love input on where to put frig in layout.

1. Should I swap frig and double ovens? Pro: frig will be near cooktop in case I need to grab more milk to pour in mac & cheese. Con: I'll lose more landing space on L of cooktop since frig is wider than 30" ovens. I don't want cooktop shoved to far to the R as than it hits the L-turn of the cabinets. I currently have this layout and don't like it cuz 2 people can't stand at cooktop. Ideally, I wanted frig near walk-in pantry so food storage would all be in one area near entry from the garage.

Should I move cooktop back to island (original plan)? I do like having whole island for prep though.

2. Do I swap frig and mail center which would put frig on open end of the U, solve door-issue and it keeps food storage on same wall as pantry?

3. Move frig where mail center is, move double ovens next to frig (by the pantry), then move mail center to where double ovens are and make it only 24" wide which would give more landing for cooktop?

4. Any other ideas are welcome! I need to get this nailed down.

The simplest solution is probably to add a filler cabinet between the fridge and pantry. You might want to check out the thread on pull-out broom closets. This would make the mail center smaller, but it could solve the fridge door problem, so it might be worth it.

All the other options I see would require moving the sink (I'm assuming you want it centered under the window and that the window location is fixed) or losing the corner pantry.

Here is a link that might be useful: pull-out broom closet thread

Thanks Holligator! I appreciate your time. I'm meeting with builder tomorrow so will discuss a useable filler between frig and pantry.

Yes, the window is fixed, but nothing else is so am curious to know where you would move the sink and how you would reconfigure the layout if we lost the corner pantry. I'm open to ALL ideas as I'm have difficulty coming up with most efficient layout. I'd like to tighten the work triangle but not sure how to do it without moving cooktop back to island.

I like everything the way it is except perhaps for a bit more countertop to the left of the cooktop.

Perhaps you could just adjust the opening to the pantry to be flat on the fridge side?

I think this kitchen might just get you to like cooking, it looks very nice.

Thanks salal_08! I appreciate your encouragement. The newest idea I'm contemplating is to swap the frig with the double ovens as not only would it officially solve the door clearance issue, but if I'm making chili and need an extra squirt of ketchup,the frig is nearby whereas in the plan above, the frig is 14 1/2 feet from the cooktop which is far away IMHO. The con is that it only leaves about 14" on each side of the cooktop, but I'll still have the long run of counters L of the sink.

What do you think? 1. Frig near cooktop or 2. Double ovens near cooktop. I really value all input pro and con!

Yes, according to the guidelines no one triangle leg should be more than 9'. If you move the fridge it would provide much better access to those in the greatroom. And you could use your lovely island as a landing place for groceries. But, IMHO, you really need more than 14" on at least one side of the cooktop. But can't you use that nice stretch around the corner to your sink? I think that should work fine unless you have a bunch of appliances in the way there.

Good luck!

Thanks salal_08! Yes, I will have a nice stretch of counter around the corner to the sink as a landing/prep area for the cooktop. I wish the 14" landing on the L of cooktop was larger, but I think it can work. Do you agree?

The other option is to move the cooktop to the island but then I'd have to do a downdraft which isn't as efficient (or so I'm told) and is also more expensive (I've heard). Need to do some research on it.

Thanks again!

I have a much smaller corner stretch on the right of my cooktop now and it works fine, to the left is so skinny I rarely use it.

Lyfia suggested I move my DW to the right of the sink so it wouldn't get in the way of the prep area and you might want to consider that, I think it's a good point.

I wouldn't move the cooktop to the island for the reasons you mention. I've done the research and you are accurate.

I really appreciate you taking time to reply as your input is very helpful. Yes, I have thought about moving the DW to R of the sink for the very reason you mentioned. IÂd have additional storage in lower cabinets which would be great in a prep area. My concern is that if DW is to R of sink, when door is open to unload, there will only be 14-15" of space between open door and pantry wall which is not enough room to stand to unload dishes to cabinet above. In my current kitchen, my DW is to R of sink (which I prefer), but I have approx 21" of space to stand when DW is open so there is room to unload dishes directly to cabinets above without having to set them on countertops first. I have to evaluate the pros & cons of DW placement to discern what would be most efficient. Lots of brainpower goes into the planning but hopefully doing it now will help me avoid major mistakes later.

Any other input is welcome!

I wouldn't swap the ovens and fridge, Leave the fridge where it is and do one or more of the following:

- Shrink the mail drop zone 3" or so and add a filler strip between fridge and pantry. You'll never miss the 3" there.

- Cut the corner pantry back 3" or so on the sides so that the pantry corners fall on the side of the fride 'box', not in the door-swing space.

- Scoot the fridge, insert a broom closet, and rotate the mail drop so it faces the other direction. Using 'clock language' - right now, it opens at 3 o'clock; have it open to noon.

Definitely go for more landing space on both sides of the cooktop, so scoot it down to the right. (For all of the reasons Holligator already mentioned.) You really want to have two people standing at the cooktop sometimes? (That would bring out my get out of my work zone snarl...)

ARe the pantry walls already in place? Because it seems to me that if you just redesign them sot they didn't come out so far it would solve the fridge door swing and where to stand when you unload the DW on the right.

sweeby, I appreciate your input! If I keep the frig by the pantry, my builder will put a filler strip so that the door swing should work out, so I think we can solve the door swing issue. BUT would you still put the frig on the pantry wall knowing it is a 14-15 foot jaunt over to the cooktop situated on the opposite wall? I can see myself going back and forth between frig and cooktop cuz I need to add more butter to something, etc... The distance is what caused me to rethink the floorplan and move the frig closer to the cooktop. It makes a tighter work triangle.

So which is the lesser of two evils?
1. Frig on pantry wall 14-15 feet away from cooktop.
2. Frig on cooktop wall with tighter work space: 14" landing between frig and cooktop, but a 6-8 foot run of counter around the corner to the R of cooktop. I think 2 cooks could still stand in front of cooktop couldn't they? One cook could stand on L of cooktop in the frig landing and in front of the cooktop while the other person could stand partly in the 12-14 inches of space to R of cooktop and in front of R side of cooktop. Does that make sense? I have plenty of prep space on the island or to the R of the cooktop. If it helps any, we only have a family of 3. My dh never cooks and my daughter may help on occasion as she gets older, but I'm the primary cook.

sala 08, No the pantry walls are not in place. Actually my favorite plan is to remove the pantry entirely which would greatly increase my upper and lower cabinets, counter space, etc.. but it would also greatly increase the $$$ of the kitchen to add in more custom cabinets, granite, etc. and we already pushing the budget envelope so have to let go of that option.

I can check into moving in the pantry wall on sink side so that there is adequate room to stand if I move DW to R of sink. The question is whether or not giving up 6-12" of pantry space would be worth gaining base cabinet space to L of sink where DW was previously located.

Still welcoming input! It really helps me think things through.

Holligator said: "#1-I don't think it matters much which way the door swings, because it's unlikely those two doors will ever need to be opened at the same time."

I totally disagree. In our house, there is often one person noodling over the pantry contents and another digging through the fridge. If you have more than one person in your house, expect that there will be times when two or more people are building different snacks.

As for the distance between cooktop and fridge: I would rather have a greater distance between the cooktop and the fridge than a tight workspace around the cooktop.

Think about your work pattern. When we are gathering stuff to prepare meals, we start at the fridge and/or pantry and move in this direction --> landing space next to SINK -->SINK-->work space between sink and COOKTOP and/or OVENS. Moving your refrigerator to a tight corner next to the stove will not improve your work flow. A well designed galley kitchen is very functional because of the linear way in which the work moves down the line.

Personally, I would be more bothered by having my ovens far away from my cooktop (what happens, for example, when you need to stick the hot pan in the oven for braising -- much worse to carry that hot pan across the room to the ovens than it is to walk a couple extra feet from the fridge). In my cooking experience, it is fairly rare that I go directly from fridge to cooktop, but much more frequent that something that gets prepared between sink and cooktop then heads over to the oven.

My priorities are: landing space between sink and refrigerator, between sink and cooktop and between oven and cooktop. Ample workspace is much more efficient than trying to cook right next to a refrigerator someone just swung open into your backside.

Why not put some refrigerator drawers in that nice large island, right opposite the cooktop? If possible you could wait until you decide the hike to the fridge from the cooktop is too much and then install them.

Thanks! You've all given me lots to think about and this rookie needs all the help she can get! I hope to post some new kitchen layouts soon (when dh can help me) to get more feedback on my 2nd attempt.

My new concern is that as I ponder the corner pantry, I'm concerned about the door swinging INTO the kitchen rather than INTO the pantry regardless of the frig location. Just seems akward to me since my current pantry door swings into the pantry. Am I making a mountain out of a molehill? Any other options you see?

I'd really like to get rid of the corner pantry entirely and make a wall pantry instead, but it greatly increases the cabinets in the kitchen and my budget is already stretched to the max so corner pantry was a compromise as it is less expensive storage solution to build than custom cabs.

What about switching the pantry door so that it's hinges are on the opp. side and it swings into the counter next to the sink?

Or, a pair of half-width doors that open into the pantry (but they'd block the shelves on the sides...hmm) or out into the kitchen?

Thanks rahime! Do you have a website where I might see a pair of half-width doors? Can't find anything when I google so not sure if they have a particular name.

Let me see if I can find some. I'm pretty sure they'd be a custom order, but we've gotten custom doors from Home Depot in the past and they've been relatively reasonably priced. I'm not sure where I've seen doors like this, but I remember seeing them somewhere where the owners didn't have much room for doorswing and didn't want to use bifold doors. They'd be sort of like small french doors without the glass panes. I can't remember what they're called. Sorry not too helpful, but I'll see if I can find a pic. or a link somewhere with them.