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Minimum walkway spacing around our kitchen

15 years ago

I posed these questions in my island sink thread, but figured I should start a new post since certain people may not read that post as it had a specific subject.

Here is the current layout, although nothing is set in stone at this point:

And here are the questions:

1. What should be the minimum distance from the front of the FD fridge to the edge of the island? Our GC is going to push our fridge back a few inches for us by not installing studs in that portion of the wall, which is why I have it drawn slightly back from the backs of the cabs.

2. Minimum distance from wall counter to island counter, considering the need to have either the oven door or DW door open at certain times? Will often be two of us in the kitchen.

3. How far should the edge of the table be from the end of the island? When you sit on that side of the table I wouldn't want it to feel like you are almost in the kitchen.

Thanks!

Comments (18)

  • 15 years ago

    Overall, I think the clearances you have given would work. The important issues (as you've already noted) have to do with functionality and traffic. Can you easily get around an open fridge, oven, or dishwasher door? Can you open the dishwasher and open the cabinet across from it simultaneously? Can one person be at the sink comfortably while someone else is at the stove? Will you ever need to expand the table to seat more people; if so, can you do so without bumping into the island?

    Beyond these basic functionality questions, I think we all have different ideas about what is adequate clearance. In our recent remodel, we very much wanted to keep the footprint of our original MCM kitchen. Expanding the kitchen wasn't an option, so the clearances are tight re: traffic flow. But everything has room to open and it works for us. Which is ultimately what matters.

  • 15 years ago

    Have you read the "Read Me if You're New" thread that floats around on the first page? There's three tons of info there. This is one of the links that has some zoning info. I'll look for the other one with more clearance info.

    Here is a link that might be useful: from the Read Me thread

  • 15 years ago

    The walkway that would worry me is the fridge one. How large are your fridge doors, and if someone is standing with it open, can you walk around them, or is the passage blocked? If there was a way to shrink the island 3" and give yourself at least a 39" walkway, personally, I'd do it.

  • 15 years ago

    3" is way too narrow between a fridge and island even if you are doing a fully integrated built in. It's one of the highest trafficed spot in any kitchen and needs the largest clearance aisle. Even if you recess some of the box, you'll still need the door and handles to stick out in order to be able to open the doors. The door and handles will be about 6-10", so your 3" will be down to 26"-30". Your goal should be at least 48" from your fridge handles to the island countertop. Don't forget that countertop overhang figures into the equation, so don't forget that 1 1/2" for every surface.

    The clearance between your island and breakfast table is also tight. You won't be able to pass by easily with the chairs pulled out. I'd suggest doing a banquette there to increase clearances. Since your island doesn't have seating, the cleaarances between the sofa and island are OK.

  • 15 years ago

    I can't find the master article on measurments, but most people find 42-48" as the most comfortable aisle width. Some get by on less, but less than 42" feels very tight to me, especially if there's more than one person in the kitchen.

    1. Tight. Mock it up with boxes, chairs or whatever to check it. It can work, but know what it will feel like.

    2. Seems OK.

    3. Workable. Not ideal, but definetly workable.

    Overall, you'll have some squeezing and "excuse me"-ing going on within the aisles. You're doing the best you can with the space you have though. I'm assuming you've explored many possible layouts to this point?

  • 15 years ago

    FWIW, I also have an L-shape kitchen with island and had originally planned for 3' between my French door fridge and island. Once I mocked it up, I realized it was not *quite* enough. I ended up with 42.5 inches and it's perfect. It doesn't feel crowded visually and it's still only a half step to a landing spot on the island from the fridge. Could you do a bench for the table where your bumped-out window is so your kitchen table is more separate AND you have room to maneuver the island over from the fridge a few more inches?

  • 15 years ago

    The distance between fridge and island is definitely tight. I have about the same distance between my island and fridge and it's a problem. Also, if the fridge is FD, check how far out your freezer drawer opens. Also, you need to be able to pull out the fridge and clean behind it. I have to climb over a counter to get behind mine.

    I don't think you'll have too much trouble between sink and stove because they're staggered and DW is on opposite side of sink.

    One more thing, don't forget to include the countertop overhang in your measurements. Even if you didn't, you're more than 42 inches between the island and stove wall. However, fridge to island will be even tighter if overhang hasn't been included.

  • 15 years ago

    If there are to be stools, draw them in and plan 2+ feet minimum behind them. Then mock it up--can you walk behind the sofa and go to the window directly or are you dodging something?

  • 15 years ago

    couple of suggestions (some requested, some not)

    -we have 3' between the fridge and island. It is workable but not ideal. 3'6" would have been better.
    - Looks like you have seating in this room. I feel that having a sink in an island is unsightly. When you have parties, everyone will gather around the island looking at dirty dishes, wine glasses etc. Swap the sink with the cooktop. Put a glass/stainless hood over the island cooktop. We use our island as a serving buffet table for parties and dinners.

    - If you made the island shorter to say 6'6", this will solve the fridge distance.

  • 15 years ago

    I had something like you fridge situation before we redid our kitchen. I don't know what the measurement was, but the door of a SXS came close to hitting the island. I don't think it hit, but you sure couldn't walk around the open door (good reason to get the grazers to shut it ;-) ) and that meant folks coming into the house from our much used side door got blocked. You don't appear to have that kind of traffic issue.

    My utility room fridge has about 31" from door handle to cabinet moulding. The single door of the 33" fridge opens fully, it's against the wall, so no need to get past it, but service would require some shuffling. The drawer opens fully, but we stand to the side of it. The fridge we had in there originally would not open fully. It was also single door. You have more room and would have smaller doors -- I think you'd be functionally okay with a FD, but no one will be able to walk around the open door and it may not be comfortable for you.

  • 15 years ago

    Even if your fridge is recessed you would still need to be able to pull it forward of the cabinets for servicing or installation or cleaning behind. I would plan on more than 36" - Yes, the depth of the fridge might be less than that, but someone better not turn that fridge while moving it.

    Helene

  • 15 years ago

    Thanks for all of the comments everyone. I've done a little bit of tweaking to the layout and adjusted to make sure I'm accounting for the counter-top overhang. I moved the island so that there is 48" between it and the wall with the range. Everywhere else has at least 42" isles except for the fridge to island which is still 36" (door to island). Once we are getting closer to actually having the cabinets made we'll see if it is possible to either move the island further out, or if we want to shrink the island at all. The reason for making the island 7' was so that the sink could be centered and so that there was a nice 24"x42" work area at both ends.

    Definitely will do some better mock-ups of the tight areas.

  • 15 years ago

    Agree with all that 36" is too tight by the fridge. I believe you will regret it!

  • 15 years ago

    Definately consider doing the banquette for your table area. That will give you additional room at that end to scoot the island down and have more clearance at your fridge. It's not just about being too crowded at your fridge, it's about being able to actually install your refrigerator into that spot. With the twistings and turnings needed to install, you need more than 36" to get it in place. You need at least the diagonal measurement of the fridge plus an inch or two. Otherwisw, you may have to install the fridge and then the island and hope it never needs to be replaced. You don't want to "build it in" in that way!

  • 15 years ago

    Sorry to hijack a bit, but it's funny...I never even thought about ideal distances between island and perimeters until GW...I have a moveable stainless prep island, which has an end that is 29" from my FD fridge. Once I read here about clearances, I moved the island back to 36" and then to 42" and felt that it was so far away! So it's back to 29". It's not been an issue for me, and I obviously prefer it this way, but maybe it's because my kids are still small so I don't feel like I'm competing for space yet? Or maybe my kitchen is relatively small (14x14), so I don't expect to have much space and don't miss it?

  • 15 years ago

    I have barely 34" clearances between my sink wall and island and about 36" between the range and island. I have no problems with the distances, but it would be almost impossible to move a standard depth fridge in or out of that space. Because your island is movable you don't have that issue.

    Helene

  • 15 years ago

    I guess I would ask myself which I would prefer...three inches less on each side of the sink or six inches more in the walkway between the fridge and island?

  • 15 years ago

    I placed my sink in the island in my recent remodel and actually prefer it there than on the wall. I do not like cooktops in an island at all; so it is all about preference. My back is now not turned from everyone in the kitchen. I also got hung up about needing to center the sink but ended up shortening the length of the island to allow for better walkways around the island. I think clearance was more important than centering. I found enough pix of islands that let me know it wouldn't be a big problem if my sink was not centered in the island. Good luck.