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stargazer556_gw

kitchen install going on now - possible problem - help please

15 years ago

Our dream kitchen is being installed right now and I am not sure of something that looks odd. The cupboards go to the ceiling and there is crown molding. It looks like the molding was installed as level, but the ceiling from left of kitchen to right side of kitchen has 1/2 inch to 5/8 inch difference. So the molding is flush on one side and a gap on the other side. The installer says this is normal. Problem is, there is a shadow which looks like a line of dark paint on the ceiling where the crown doesn't touch.

Can someone please let me know quickly if this is correct? It doesn't look right. I can't post a photo right now and don't want to wait until install in finished.

Thanks in advance.

Kim

Comments (22)

  • 15 years ago

    I am certainly no expert and may be totally wrong, but they'll probably do some kind of filler or something there. I don't think it would look right if they moved the crown at an angle along the wall since you'd see the bottom slightly going up.

    The experts can weigh in here I'm sure, but I THINK that might be the correct way to do it (sorry, I know I'm not much help)
    http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0319544031568.html

  • 15 years ago

    Sorry- that last copied web address is a link to a thread where filler is discussed, I posted before I was really done. :)

  • 15 years ago

    In a situation where the ceiling is not level, the molding should be scribed to the ceiling. A piece of trim wood the same as the cabinet face is used above the cabinet as a filler between the molding and the cabinet.

  • 15 years ago

    While uneven ceilings are normal, having a gap is not. What your designer should have specified and your installer implemented was a 2-pc or 3-pc crown molding that consisted of a "filler" piece, a decorative top crown, and, optionally, a short decorative bottom crown.

    The filler piece goes b/w the two crowns or b/w the cabinet and the top crown piece.

    The filler is then scribed/cut-to-size throughout the kitchen so there is no gap b/w the crown and ceiling anywhere. I.e., the filler height will vary by 1/2" to 5/8" (b/c of the 1/2" to 5/8" difference you mentioned).


    As an example, my designer specified a 3-pc crown and here is the design (top design).
    The "Stock-S" is the "filler" I've been talking about. The "Crown" is the top decorative crown. The "SoffitA" is the bottom decorative piece. The "Stock-S" piece varies in height, depending on where it is in my kitchen. I have an even more uneven ceiling...I think there was a difference of at least an inch throughout my kitchen!

    Note that you don't need the bottom "SoffitA" piece...it's optional.

    Here it is installed:

  • 15 years ago

    Thanks for the info. The installers have now left but say they will fix. They say that all kitchens they have installed that have crown molding has a gap and none of these customers complained. I truly appreciate your taking the time to post these solutions and will show them this.
    Am I being too picky to expect it to go to the ceiling?

    Kim

  • 15 years ago

    Not too picky at all, Kim. It's completely within normal expectations to want the crown/filler to be scribed/adjusted to fit your unique ceilings -- that's the absolutely normal workmanlike way to trim out cabinets to the ceiling. Leaving a gap is quite odd. It's a bit puzzling that your installers don't know this, or irritating that they are pretending they don't.

    If they're just 'installer dudes' and not carpenters, and you are worried about further poor workmanship, you might want to consider engaging someone else to do all the trim for you after the cabs are in?

  • 15 years ago

    There's another solution to this. My ceiling was wavy. They installed the crown to the lowest point, and one of the GC's guys feathered in drywall mud the couple of feet of ceiling in front to even it out. If you look really closely in the worst spot, you can see a little bit of "wall" which is a 90 degree corner between the ceiling and the fill. It's all painted ceiling color and there's nothing to see. No shadows. No ugly.

    This was done after I was assured that they would caulk it. "CAULK!!!!" I exclaimed incredulously. The GC turned red in the face (blushed). I didn't have to say anything more. The same was done where my laundry walls/ceiling were out of whack and my dining room doorway. It's more effort, and requires a little skill, but the result is worth it.

  • 15 years ago

    I talked to the installer which is actually the owner of the company and his helper.
    He said;

    The advise that you are getting online is fine but he is still not showing you how it looks on a long section, his picture shows only about a foot of moulding and so you don't see the taper.

    Essentially the installer is saying that we will see the differing 1/4 - 5/8" where the molding will meet the ceiling. Does anyone have photos of a long running section of kitchen, where the ceiling wasn't even but the crown molding touches the ceiling? I would appreciate seeing this.
    Attached are 3 photos of our kitchen showing the shadow at the top.
    Kim

    Here is a link that might be useful:

  • 15 years ago

    Here is 2nd photo. I can't seem to figure out how to attach all 3 photos at once.

    Here is a link that might be useful:

  • 15 years ago

    Here is the third photo.

    Here is a link that might be useful:

  • 15 years ago

    Hi, I'm sorry, no pics, as our cabinets don't go to the ceiling, but I wouldn't be happy with that gap either. I do, however have crown molding in a bedroom, and I remember our installer (who's a friend), made sure there were no gaps.
    Good luck

  • 15 years ago

    Here's a "long run" or whatever...there are absolutely no gaps anywhere in my kitchen b/w the ceiling and the molding. I posted the other pic so you would have a "close up".

    I will say, though, that a "finish carpenter" did the trim in my kitchen, not the cabinet installers or the general contracting team.

    The picture is probably too small to see the detail. I will tell you, though, that the filler varies in height throughout my kitchen. It was not a "quick" job...our carpenter took the time to measure and "dry run" the install of each crown. Not all filler pieces were straight, either. Some had a bit of a taper b/c of the ceiling height. As I recall, it took our carpenter a couple of days just to do the crown molding & light rail on our cabinets.

    Are these any more help?

  • 15 years ago

    Wow, your kitchen is beautiful! I think by long run, the installer is thinking of a 10 or 12' section. I have seen these photos on the internet, but maybe the ceilings in these kitchens were completely straight?
    Kim

  • 15 years ago

    Stargazer, I agree with buehl. The crown should go with the ceiling, and there should be a filler piece that makes it all fit together.

  • 15 years ago

    I have zero experience with this, but from reading through all the posts it sounds as though buehl is saying that yes, the filler piece will have a variable height and/or taper due to the ceiling unevenness, but it will not be noticeable overall. Gaps would definitely look awful, and there is no way I would accept that from any reputable worker - but as buehl said, you may need to find a finish carpenter instead of insisting the GC do precise, finicky work that he obviously is neither experienced with, nor eager to try.

  • 15 years ago

    This is a tough one. Normally the filler stock piece is what accounts for the difference, like Beuhl shows, and it's what I've always seen. But THESE cabinets won't look right with it. They are really nice, but built weird. I mean unusual. Not weird like you'd look at 'em and say "how weird", but there is no wiggle room with the crown. Everything has snug gaps and they need to be even. I think you have to tackle this from the ceiling, like Plllog's. (I'm surprised a cabinet seller would allow you to order something like this without being darn sure your ceiling was perfect.)

    Don't leave it like this, though!

  • 15 years ago

    I think the cabinet builder thought they could just install this way and I would think it was ok. They say they will come back and fix but it will be noticeable.
    Such a shame.

  • 15 years ago

    Could they stack one more piece of moulding onto the crown to extend it to the ceiling; then that moulding could sit flush with the ceiling, like quarter round finishes a baseboard when it sits on top of a wood floor? You could use a small cove or something that's painted exactly like the cabinets, and nothing would have to be ripped off the actual cabinet.

  • 15 years ago

    I wanted to add, I think the overall effect of the cabinets is absolutely gorgeous! You're going to have a beautiful kitchen, and I can't wait to see the final pics.

  • 15 years ago

    buehls designer/order entry person recognized the differences and adjusted the cabinetry and associated moldings accordingly with a tall molding backer board that offers some forgiveness of the uneven cieling.

    Yours did not.

    With that said, I would never have left your job looking like that.

  • 15 years ago

    Kim,
    Here's a shot of my crown molding.


    You can see that the ceiling is lower on the left side so that less filler is exposed when compared to the right side.
    I hope this helps.

  • 15 years ago

    What your installer doesn't seem to understand is that it's the contrast between the cabinets and the shadow that makes it noticeable. An uneven exposure of filler will never be noticed unless someone is looking specifically for it. I've seen willtv's kitchen posted before, and I never noticed the uneven ceiling issue, even though there's much more of a difference than in your kitchen, because there's no contrast to draw my eyes to it. With yours, the contrast of the gap draws the eyes immediately to that area.