Two thoughts - if you have an island behind the oven, that would be a natural landing place for your hot items. Right now I have no counter space next to my oven but I just rotate and put it on the island, esp if island will be granite and you just just set it right on the island

Second, could you put the counter run BETWEEN the fridge and oven rather than right of the fridge? I assume not but thought I'd ask.

good luck!

Anita

can you put the counterspace in between the frig and the oven stack? Can you post the rest of your layout to see if there are any other options?

I'd also love to see the rest of your layout. I really don't like the fridge next to the oven. Like Anita, I was thinking of put the cabinet between the oven and fridge.

Laurie

I have the same set up that Anita speaks of. The extra counter space in between the fridge and oven. I also have a pantry to the other side of the oven(s).
Our island, and a counter on another bank of cabinets a few feet away, are also available to set things on from the fridge and the ovens. You can see the tip of the island in this pic, just below and to the left.

I've been very happy with this set up.

Hope the pic helps. I just took them for you, so I haven't had a chance yet this morning to do the housekeeping (removal of fingerprints!).

I forgot to add, that the KD originally designed the little cubby (as I call it) upper cabinet to be in line with the rest of the the bank. I wanted it set back that way .. just because I found it more appealing.

Here's a picture of the plan, so far. Yes, I could put the counter space between the fridge and the ovens, but it would mean that you walk into the back door and have the side of a cabinet right in front of you. I do like the way your cubby looks, though, Boxiebabe.

For anyone who might like to play around with the plan, the space available is as follows:

108 - sink wall
94 - cooktop wall
96 - fridge wall
69 - bare wall (that I'd really like to keep bare, or a table/island will make the space too crowded.

The cooktop is 36", and the fridge will take 38" with the cabinet.

Also, my #1 rule is that the sink and the cooktop have to be on the same side of the kitchen. Code here does not allow the cooktop/range in front of a window. And I don't want anything on the diagonal in a corner, if I can help it. I don't like the way that looks.

Thanks for any help. I really don't think there's another way to do it, other than get rid of the oven stack, but maybe you'll find one!

{{!gwi}}

I think I'd rather get used to the side of the cabinet facing the back door than have the ovens so far from any landing space...Put up a calendar, bulletin board, piece of art, or nice panel to make the side of the fridge cabinet attractive and/or useful?

My kitchen is old and needs to be redone, so ignore the decor in there. I just wanted to show you that we see the side of the cabinet when we walk in the doorway.

Laurie

Personally, I would not like the oven against the wall even if you could put the counterspace next to it. If you use the oven a lot, I would think you definitely need a landing space, so I agree with Rhome.

This wouldn't bother me because I am not much of a
baker and don't use my oven everyday. I think that has
some play in this.

It wouldn't bother me to face the fridge when coming in
the back door either, but I would do as rhome suggested
with it.

Best of Luck!

Joanne:
What is the open space that is to the right of the bank of cabinets that your stove is on?

You say "oven stack" but your mock up looks like just one oven? Is that supposed to be a double oven, or oven and micro?

I have another idea, but will depend on how you answer the above. :)

Boxie

At the very least, I would switch the fridge and counter space as others have suggested. With a fridge panel, it should look just fine.

What is in the bottom right corner of your layout? I'm guessing it's something you can't touch. But if it is moveable (like a pantry) or shrinkable, that might be a better place for the oven (also depends on where that bottom door leads to...)

If you have a table or island in the middle somewhere, I think that would make a natural landing zone. That's the landing setup I have, and I find it very convenient.

If you don't end up with a counter there, I could see scooting the fridge down, but with the distance between fridge side wall and door being as small as it is, that really doesn't appeal to me. Unless you get very creative with the side wall? Chalkboard paint? Corkboard? Photo collage wall?

What about having a small countertop on the wall directly opposite the oven and fridge? Something just over countertop height with a heat-resistant (soapstone?) top? Maybe a bookcase? Not too deep, and placing any clutter on top would be strictly outlawed.

I really would need a landing space near the oven. Consider putting a counter between the fridge and oven. It's also better not to have a high heat source right next to your refrigerator which will work much harder to keep your food cool.

At the bottom right corner of my drawing, there's the basement door. I just couldn't figure out how to place it on the interior wall.

On the cooktop wall, the cabinet to the right of the cooktop is 18", and then there's a wall. That upper cabinet won't extend into that area; it's going to be cut in half. The Ikea planner doesn't let you do a 15" tall by 18" wide cabinet, so I moved the wall over to put a 36" cabinet (which, as I said, I will cut in half).

I'm not exactly sure whether I'll have double ovens, single ovens and a microwave, or just a single oven. I just put the oven cabinet there as a place holder.

Sweeby, are you talking about the wall that's perpendicular to where I have the oven cabinet now? I suppose that could be doable, though I was trying to keep that wall clear. I'm trying to find space for a very small island or table.

Laurie, is your photo taken from the doorway? I can't figure out what wall you're facing.

I've thought about swapping the oven cabinet and the counter space on that wall, which would leave the counter space as landing space for the fridge and then I could put things from the oven on the counter over the dishwasher. Of course, I was going to store my dishes and glasses in the cabinets where I have counter space.

Alternatively, I could swap the fridge and the counter space, but I'd have to make the counter space narrower. There's definitely not enough room for the fridge there; it's a counter-depth model, but it sticks out more than 24", and it's narrow enough in that area.

BoxieBabe - How wide is the counter space you have in your cubby? It doesn't look terribly large. Is it big enough? Do you use it for everything, or do you lean across the aisle to the counter that appears to be across from the fridge?

Thanks a lot for the help, everyone!

Joann--I remember your struggle with a layout. Very difficult space with all the doors, etc. and I think you've done a great job.

I'd leave the frig & oven where you have them and just don't think it is going to be a real problem because you have landing space close by with the open cab. Really isn't much different than pivoting to land stuff on an island.

Much prefer the openness of the cab on the end. I think I would want a cutting board/ bread board pullout in that cab to use for landing space...currently have one near my oven & that's one of the ways that I use it.

Add that I don't like small sections of cabs that are boxed in on the sides--what you would have if you swapped the cab & frig. They feel closed in--they are!--and the countertop tends to collect clutter because it isn't really large enough to be useful. (My mom had this situation.) At the end of the run though, near the door, it's open on one side & would work out great for landing bags of groceries when you come in the backdoor.

Thanks, Ci_lantro. You're right, the space *is* hard to work with. Every time I change something to try to make one facet better, it throws something else out of whack.

I had finally decided to just go with a range and forget the idea of an oven cabinet, but I think I would much prefer a little inconvenience with the cabinet to not having one at all.

Isn't there some "rule" against putting ovens right next to fridge? Insulation/makes it harder for each to do their job/something like that? For that reason I'd swap the countertop space with the fridge. I'm not a layout pro so will defer to others.

On the fridge next to doorway issue, you can either frame it with a wood panel to look like a built in, or you can use its magnetized side to hold all the magnets and stuff that won't stick to a SS fridge. I found this out by accident during the temp kitchen stage -- magnets stick to the black side of my LG fridge but not the SS front. I sort of regret listening to my KD about "needing" a wood panel for a "finished look" (quotes because neither is something I really care about).

I don't know about any rule like that. I see this setup in magazines pretty often. I figure that there are two layers of cabinet (oven cabinet and fridge cabinet) plus some air space between the two, so I think it will be all right.

About the magnetic side ... I'm actually planning on getting a fridge cabinet in part to make my family *stop* putting magnets on the fridge - I hate them! It's all just a matter of personal preference, of course.

Hi Joann:

My cubby is 24" across. I took some more pics in case they might help. I like the space and find it very useful. I took pics with the drawer/cabinet open so that you can see that you really can store quite a bit of stuff in it. I vascilated on whether or not to put a glass door in the upper. I think it looks better with glass, but I'd also like to be able to put non-pretty stuff in it. You'll notice a cell phone charging station on the counter. It's not completely finished as you'll see the handle just laying there. Hubby built it. We had the electrician put an outlet in the wall inside the lower, and we had the granite company drill a hole and put a plastic dealie bobber in it to lace the phone and electric cords through. At any rate, we really use the space.

Sorry that some of the pics are tilted the wrong direction, and some are large - but for some reason photobucket wouldn't let me change them. I tried 3-4 times on some of the and chose "replace original" and it didn't work. But if you tilt your head to the right, you'll get the pic. heh heh

I have an area similar to boxiebabe's, maybe a little wider. Unlike her, I find this area really not very useful at all. Probably because the upper cab isn't recessed, but instead is out at the same depth as the oven and fridge. I use the counter behind the oven to put hot pans on, and I use the end of the peninsula as a landing zone for the fridge. Neither works well for me, but unfortunately I'm stuck with this kitchen until I have the money saved to improve it (ugly wallpaper's gone tho!)

I think you already decided to go w/ the range and no wall oven, but did anyone suggest this idea:
- angle the wall ovens so that you can add cabinets/countertops to the left of the oven.

Amanda

I have to say that, nice as wall ovens are, I do think a range is the best solution when space is so tight. Good decision.

Boxiebabe, thanks for the extra pictures. It does look as though you can store a ton of stuff in that cubby.

Annkathryn, thanks for your input, too. I do love the way your microwave looks, even though you don't like the function of the cubby.

Amanda, I haven't decided to go with a range at all. I'm really trying *not* to go with one. Do you mean to put a counter on the wall I'm trying to keep blank?

Please keep the comments coming. It really helps!

I don't know if things have changed, but when I built my home 15 years ago I had to have space between the fridge and oven due to building codes. I think it was a foot at the time, and it may have been "local" building codes which may not effect you, but I would really think twice about putting a heat source directly next to a refrigerator.

I also suggest you try to put the landing space b/w the oven and refrigerator. OR have you thought of instead of a tall oven cabinet use a raised cabinet to lift the oven 12" or so higher off the floor than a similar oven would be undercounter. It would be similar to what others have done w/DWs. Then, you will have a raised counter (48"?) to use as a landing zone for the oven above it. Next, the refrigerator and last, the "Counter Space".

As to Amanda's cubby...as she suggested, with the full depth cabinet I would think that it would not only be difficult to get things in & out but it would also be difficult to work there at all w/o bumping your head!

I've noticed that some dedicated to energy efficiency websites advise against placing ovens next to refrigerators. Obvious reasons are that the frig has to work harder (more wear & tear) & consume more electricity. But also, this factor is going to be relative to how much you use an oven. In a perfect kitchen, I wouldn't put the two next to one another. In the real world, factoring in that I don't use an oven much, I wouldn't hesitate if doing so makes my kitchen function better.

If you have an inch or so to spare, you can always sandwich in more insulation or incorporate more vent area by say, leaving the back of the oven cabinet open & cutting vents thru the wall into another room & cover with a decorative grill. Or allowing a vent in the oven cabinet near the ceiling...even going so far as to install a small fan if you're really, really concerned.

That said, when it's hot & the frig (and AC unit) is working its hardest, that's the time of year that I avoid cranking up the oven anyway. If I really need to bake something, I use a portable appliance like a Nesco or a portable convection oven & move the cooking to the porch or garage.