Wow-hope this gets worked out for you. The one thing that our granite supplier/fabricator made clear to us was to be very sure the cabinets were level. Your GC says the cabinets were fine but the fabricator says they weren't level. There must be some way to check who is right??

I think this can probably get resolved when they all meet and settle who's responsible for what.

Insist they fix it if your contractor can prove it was their fault. The fix is probably easier than you think and the threat of the granite breaking is probably just an attempt to make you think twice about it.

Sure, granite is fragile and can break if not handled properly but if it was shoddy workmanship you shouldn't be held hostage by that. If you let it go it will bother you from now on.

The granite around my previous cooktop was not exactly level. Every time I fried something in a pan with oil it reminded me that I didn't insist it be fixed.

Don't be accomodating like I was back then. Remember it's your kitchen and your money!!

"He called the fabricator who blamed the installation on the faulty (?) cabinet, and said that it was not his job to level the cabinet, but to level the countertop, which he clearly did not do."

There you said it. It's the fabricator.

What I do not understand is this: When they came to template for the counters, if they found the cabinets to be sufficiently out of level they should have told you and they should have REQUIRED that the cabinets be made level BEFORE they installed. Or at the very least, they should have told you the cabinets are out of level and that if you didn't have them adjusted they would take no responsibility for the results. In that event they should have required you to sign a paper outlining that.

Sounds like your GC is sufficiently finicky (Happily, I know the type!) that I would bet the cabinets were level. It seems we've been seeing a series of poor counter fabrications on this board lately.

Anyway, level is very easy to check--with a level--and I hope you get it straightened out. If, in order to fix, the installer breaks a piece of granite, he should replace it at his expense. Counters out of level will bother you in a hundred ways over the years. Resist the temptation to be "nice" and say that you can live with it.

There's no reason you should have to pay more than you anticipated to get professionally acceptable results.

I agree. Don't be too accommodating, and get what you need if you possibly can. To me a 3/8 difference in height would be a big deal, and you'll notice it every day, as nishka said. My son, who is an expert negotiator, is pleasant in a negotiation but knows what he wants and doesn't show his hand until the others state what they want. Don't let them scare you with talk of the stone breaking. If it's established that they made an error, that would be their problem.

In our DIY cabinet installation we went to great lengths to insure the base cabinets were absolutely level. Even so, when the fabricator came to install the granite, he found them to be off a bit less than 1/8" from one end of the run to the other. He came prepared with shims, and made certain that the slab was perfectly level and well supported everywhere. The small gaps the might show under the counter's edge were filled with a bead of calking that nearly matched the cabinet's stain. Of course you couldn't see it unless you looked up under the counter's edge.

Sounds to me your fabricator didn't do the job correctly. Why did he decide to start the job in the first place? If the cabinets were so far out of whack that he couldn't properly shim and support the granite, he should have spoken up and told you this needed to be fixed first.

One of the partners just called me. He said that I was happy with the countertop, said that they were beautiful, I paid him...case closed. He refuses to come back here to argue with me, my contractor or the cabinet guy. There is nothing he can do without breaking the granite, and will definitely not be purchasing another slab.

He disputes that anyone can see that it is not level with the naked eye. He also said that he didn't know that the cabinets were not level until it was too late. And no, they did not use templates, just took measurements, but it is an excellent fit.

He apparently isn't aware that I stopped payment on the check. I am concerned that he will put a lien on the house. I was told that the lien can be disputed by expert statements. If not, my heirs can deal with that when I get carried out of here!

I am going to call a fabricator that my contractor highly recommends to get his opinion on what I should do. I waited a very long time to do this job, I really don't want to just settle on what should be a beautiful highlite to my kitchen.

You write that the level is off by 3/8" inches from the front of the counter to the wall. If I understand you correctly that means that it is off by 3/4" over 4 feet, the usual standard I'm familiar with. That's WAY off and totally unprofessional.

You write, "He also said that he didn't know that the cabinets were not level until it was too late." That's clearly malpractice--as he admits it's his job to shim. You cannot shim if you don't know the out-of-level.

Putting a lien on your house means that he has to hire an attorney who might well charge him more than your bill. If it goes that far, disputing the lien means that you're engaged in a lawsuit.

Perhaps you can look to the local BBB for assistance in dealing with the installer. Are they licensed in your locale? Perhaps you can appeal to the local buildings department.

If all else fails I think you should send the installer a certified letter writing in detail of your concerns and backing that up with out-of-level measurements made by your contractor. Include the contractors license number if he has one, and include a refernce to his statement that the cabinets were level. Tell him that you are asking by this letter that he come and make it right, and give him a reasonable time frame. Tell him that if he doesn't, you will hire another installer to do the job and you will hold him responsible for ALL costs beyond what you agreed to pay him.

ladelta - I am not sure where you live but here in Atlanta this is the crap our local TV consumer/investigative reporters would love to get involved in.

I would make as much noise as you could and I bet when they discover they have NOT been paid, that will get their attention.

I know you must be sick but stick in there, the proof is in your unlevel counters.

I'm sure they will beat a path to your door when the final payment is refused.

Then you'll need to either 1) work with a company who is doing work for you under duress which is usually unpleasant or 2) trying to locate a different fabricator to do repair work which can be difficult and costly.

I'm so sorry for your frustration but I agree with the above posters. Levelness of the ctop IS the fabricators responsiblility AND is absolutely crucial.

I asked the fabricator several times during our phone conversation "are you telling me that you're not coming back to try to resolve this?" to which he replied "that's exactly what I'm saying".

I made up my mind last night that I don't want them back. I gave them the opportunity to fix things, but angry guys could do more harm than good. I would imagine that the granite WOULD be broken, just to prove a point; possibly an "oops" that would damage my cabinets.

I intend to get several other companies in to give me their opinion.

a few things are confusing...if the GC is so picky then how did he not know the cabinets were not level, why did he not check this, he IS (and cabinet installer) responsible for making them level for the granite people.

however, having said that, many cabinets do not get installed perfectly level (or square) so the granite installer is forced to use shims. As I understand it (granite fabricators feel free to join in) they have to make the granite be on one plane so as not to crack. Which doesn't necessarily mean on a LEVEL plane, unfortunately.

I don't understand how the granite people, using shims, did not get it level since they were already able to see the cabients were not. Did they shim it up too far?

Would love to see some pictures as well as hear the rest of the story next week. But I guess the point I am trying to make is the problem STARTED with the unlevel cabinet install which is GC/installers fault.

ladelta, You wrote, "I gave them the opportunity to fix things" Give it to them in writing!

Any update?

I really feel for you! The company that did my counters messed up, and the owner was SUCH a jerk. How can people sleep at night after being such jerks? Everyone makes mistakes. The honorable thing to do is own up to them.

I hope you have a better resolution than I did!

francy

Yeah, ladelta, hoping you've received some encouraging news...

The GC, should have not left it just up to the installers, to make sure it was level. He, should have checked it himself. His job is to make sure everything is done right. If you, have a broad of contractors, in your state, call them.

I am even more grateful now that my carpenter/contractor insisted on being here for the templating and the delivery