Yes, Patricia43...please come back...and keep in touch. It's been a long time since I've seen you here! There are lots of people at GW who would love to re-connect with you. So sorry you're going through such a very rough time.

Absolutely Maureen :c)

Patricia, I also want to say I'm sorry for your pain and that this is such a difficult time for you.

Maureen: You are so much like my older sister. Growing up, we moved a lot and could not develope the friendships that some do when living in one place for many years. During her early years, our household income was very low and this affected her self esteem.
Do you really not want to have friends? My sister always say that she is not social and now that she is retired, she goes to an exercise class twice a week and this is all she needs to have social contact. I really do not believe it.
I have made an effort to have a small circle of friends. I did not want to be like my sister. I too so understand going to kid's functions and only having DH to talk to. What I am saying is, you have lots to offer and I know people would be happy to have you as their friend.
Patricia: I echo the above posters and encourage you get the help you need to manage your pain. Please check back here and let us know how you are.

ellendi, I guess I am like your sister ; as I got older, I could not take the expectations friends had for me or the judgements they had on my lifestyle and habits and for some reason, I attract people that want something from me, but they don't bring anything positive in my life, they just demand time and space. I detached from a lot of people who took some of my time and instead, I concentrated on ME and what I want in life, and also being closer to DH and my kids, at the end of the day they are the ones who count the most.

Guys, this got away from me, so don't sweat reading. I'm very much thinking aloud.

Item #1 & most important: Patricia
Patricia, talk to your doctor.
I don't get this from you at all, but as a therapeutic yoga teacher I find people in love with their pain or injuries. Pain isn't right. If there's a way to alleviate it, all the better. The self-righteous "I don't take pills" simply means one is in pain, and doesn't make one a better or superior person. I am SO sorry you're going thru this! My point is don't put yourself through this when there could be a solution!

Item #2: Shopping invisibility
Reading back thru, I had to laugh at the store situations. 10 years ago or so, I wandered thru an entire Ann Taylor at the Tyson's Corner Mall in No. VA. The ENTIRE store, rack to rack. No one said a word to me, although there were many employee conversations going on.

I found a t-shirt I liked and went to the counter. Two people were going over some papers and didn't look up. Another lady walked up and one of the paper girls said, "Suzie, would you get that?". "Sure," she said.

Well, I finally swelled up like a tick. I put my hand down on the papers and said in a low, probably intimidating voice, "Look. at. me. and. listen."
"I am a customer. I am not an it, that, a sale, nor an inconvenience. I am a person who is trying to give you money, which will keep you employed. I have walked thru this store from rack to rack without a single acknowledgement. Not even eye contact, of which you are prime examples. I could have 30 t-shirts in my purse this store is so inattentive. (I don't carry a purse.) Have I made my point clear?"

They looked floored, chagrined, embarrassed, and a bit angry as people do when they're showing their bummies in public. The Suzie whispered, "I'm sorry. Can I help you find anything else?" I gave her my money silently, and without receiving a "Thank you, come again" I said, "You're welcome." and walked out.

Item #3: Being alone with ourselves:
Solitude. Mine started as forced. Moving to the country for my DH's need for isolation -- although he's a social butterfly. Then with him gone, and me a city girl, I almost lost my mind, except that I didn't have friends to connect with, anyway. Now I wouldn't give this up for anything. Too much literal blood, sweat and 1000s of tears. Now I wouldn't change where I am and my quiet time. I have 6.5 acres of fields, trees, varied animals showing up, incredible sunsets, glowing mornings, ethereal fog and rains that calm my soul. I'm a Seattle climate type gal. I thrive in the rain. When I'm home, I never want to leave.

Item #4: Giving:
Keep in mind that giving your help or support to someone is a gift. If you do it with even a subconscious idea that there will be a return, it's not a gift. Help, time and gifts must be freely given. It might not come back to you from your recipient, but the kharma is there.

I've been a yoga teacher for 25 years. In our 2005 fire, people in the yoga community nationally came together for us. I didn't even know some knew who I was!
cat and dog food, teaching my classes for me for free, giving me required trainings, accommodations, cookies on my windshield, you name it. To this day, I haven't forgotten them. Ironically, our relationships haven't changed. We're not closer friends, we're not chatty companions. But *I* will never forget and try even harder to be aware of others' situations.

Item #5: Being chatty, chatty, CHATTY!:
I am also one who can talk to anyone, anywhere. And do. I think it's why I've always been very successful in restaurants, tending bar, and teaching. Even Tech Support when I had a "real" job. It's the acquaintances or close where I have a problem. I'm intrinsically painfully shy.

As a kid, I refused to be one of those walking down an empty school hallway, with someone coming towards me, who practically whistled and looked at the wall. I'd force myself to say, "Hello!" And walk on. There's an Al-Anon thing where if you want to be something, "Act as if..."
You can only change yourself! Anyway, people now think I'm outgoing. Fine.

I've been online since the late 80s and love how people can show their personalities and brilliance online. Conversely, too many would type mean things they'd never say in person. But I've "friends" all over the world I'd never have "met" without the Internet. I think people do forget that the world is reading, or frankly? Just don't care. Sometimes I don't. What's true is what's true.

SO my novel of the day is done. [inset applause & signs of relief!] Everyone makes me think here. Pulls things out that I might not remember, but definitely contributes to what makes me me.

Everyone have a fabulous day. You're wonderful, smart, funny, intuitive, caring, generous, and glowlingly beautiful, important people. Thank you.

I haven't had a chance yet to read all that everyone has contributed to this thread. I posted this while at DS1's apt. and had no internet at the place where we were staying in the mountains in VA. When I got home late last night I had several emails from folks about the thread. Everyone wanted to know if I was OK and if I had looked at the responses.

This AM I went looking for the thread on the Convo side and couldn't find it...oh no...well I had posted it to the Discussion side. I am sorry. My state of mind was poor at the time I posted it and obviously I was not thinking clearly. I will go back and read all that you have contributed...thank you all.

I am embarrassed and chagrined and overwhelmed. I have a lot of amazing friends on this forum...I KNEW that and this simply reinforces why I was willing , in a very vulnerable moment, to come here. c

I'm trying so hard to read every response before I post, but there are so many! I can relate to so many of you. I'm in my 30's with two young kids at home. I was professional before becoming a stay at home mom. Add a couple of moves to different cities, and well, I do feel invisible sometimes. I like to say that being a stay at home mom is like being back in the seventh grade on the first day of school. When meeting other moms you wonder if they like you, do you look okay, will you fit it, etc.

I was tired of being at home without friends so I started a moms group on Meetup.com. I was terrified to do it, but I have met some wonderful ladies (and kids). The funny thing is that we all feel the same way! It just takes one person to extend themselves to open the door for others to do the same. I now approach other moms at parks to strike up a conversation. I always remember what it felt like to be the new lady in town and nobody would talk to me. Or worse, when I would strike up a conversation with another mom and they would give a one word answer then turn around. I don't ever want to make anyone feel that way, especially those who are new in the area and are having trouble fitting in.

I sometimes feel bad that this forum is a go-to for "friends", but everyone here is so nice and they seem so sincere. I wish y'all were my neighbors!

Well...I am staggered by the responses to this thread...but surprised...nope. As others have said there is a resonance in this forum that keeps me , and others, coming back. I know that many feel that if you have to have cyber friends instead of " real " friends, then there is something lacking in your life. So be it. I have been very fortunate to meet, IRL, several folks from the GW family. The friendships and acceptance that I have been lucky to find here have made my life more rewarding. I learn so much every time I read the posts from such caring and intelligent people.

I do not find anything depressing about the posts here. Rather the way that each person has opened to others is remarkable. I posted such an open question/statement. Who knew how to respond ? I sure didn't even when I posted it :)

I went to my DS1's with my Grandmother hat on and was SO ready to get into the part. Unfortunately the script that I was following was the only copy. I had so many rude awakenings and slights and not so subtle insults that I thought my heart was broken for sure. The other night was the culmination of almost 10 days of wanting and not receiving .

I am well aware of how responsible I am for my own feelings and my own ordering of my life. Attachment is something I struggle with when it comes to feelings about my children and family. I don't have it about things or if I do it is fleeting. The Buddhists teach that a person can't be free of self-destructive patterns unless they develop compassionate understanding of what they are. In other words just saying I am going to change what I don't like about myself won't do it. I have to embrace everything about myself. There is no good or bad. There just is. There is no "cure" for the facts of life.

I sometimes have a problem resisting taking a drink and the other night was no exception. Most times it is not a problem. A glass of wine with DH on the porch and dinner and all is OK. I am a real light weight when it comes to alcohol . I come from a long line of alcoholics and I know the consequences of drinking, especially when I am in a very emotional place. But as many of you will feel a connection with , I drank to feel better. Of course that didn't happen....I didn't feel better.

I tried to talk to my DIL about the withholding of the baby...I ended up crying and didn't receive anything back from her except...he will be around for a long time and we will work out something later. Not what I wanted to hear. I am not sure how she and I and consequently my son have gotten on such different pages. I have tried over and over to talk about it but to no avail. I guess I hoped the baby would bridge the gap.

Added on to all of this was my DS2 who has been trying with some small success to get his drinking under control. The emotions of the holiday and his SAD, which was mentioned above and is a very real problem for him , got the best of him.

If you haven't stopped reading by now...thank you :) I wanted to make sure that no one thought my post had anything to do with GW.

I read every single line of every post above. There was so much that hit home. So many of you said exactly word for word what I was and am feeling. Thank you.

after all is said and done arapahoe said it very well:

"I find this time of year challenging. The short daylight hours and the expectations of what holidays should be which for many they are not. I hope you come back and let us all know how you are doing.
The responses here to someone reaching out is one reason I appreciate this forum so much. There are so many thoughtful, caring people here who are willing to reach back and try to help someone in need." c

Sometimes we all need...
hugs

Such a wonderful, thought provoking thread. Yes, I think we all feel a bit invisible at times. There are situations where I feel comfortable enough to be myself, but there are situations where I think I might add to my own invisibility. We often have to socialize with my husband's business colleagues and depending on my own insecurities, these are the times when I feel the most invisible.

I have spent the last 20+ years helping to raise out two children. I left my career behind to do this, but never looked back. Since my husband worked long hours and traveled a great deal, it was the best decision for our situation. Thankfully, we were able to swing that arrangement financially.

Fast forward to today -- one child will be graduating from university and the other will be entering soon. I have spent a lot of time thinking about what the future holds for my husband and I as empty nesters. We have managed to keep some hobbies, but for the most part, we have dedicated ourselves to our family. We have not kept real close touch with our couple friends because we found it difficult to go through the motions when the sentiments weren't returned. That made us realize that after a long week of work and school, we really were quite happy to spend the weekends with our kids.

I have a number of good girlfriends that I keep close contact with, but sometimes our relationships are reduced to email and phone calls. I do have a once-a-year commitment with some old girlfriends to go away for a weekend together and now we have added a second commitment to do a charity walk together. Someone once asked me how we could tolerate one another for an extended weekend and the answer is simple. We take one weekend to be in the moment with old friends. We laugh (and sometimes cry), we go out dinner, we shop and we don't spend the time dwelling on the past or complaining about the present. It works for us.

I do agree that as we get older it is more difficult to establish new friendships. I have sister who has wrestled with this for some time. She is a young widow who dedicated her life to her family and when her situation changed, she found it very difficult to re-establish herself and find a way to fit into other people's lives. One thing that separates us is that she seems to have a need to be more present in her friends' lives. She pointed out to me that I was not as needy or in need of real close friends because I had a core to return to each day. I have to confess that I get that. I understand that, but I'm not sure what the fix is either.

I've probably rambled on far too long, but I just wanted to chime in and say that it looks like there are some common threads woven throughout the responses here. Just when we think we are so alone, we really aren't that different after all. This forum gives us a chance to share things that we think are only happening to us, so it's good to know that we are not alone. We are not the only ones who sometimes feel invisible. Thanks for that.

TR -- also sending you hugs. Navigating the emotions and subsequent struggles associated with the birth of a grandchild can be both joyous and difficult. I wish you the best.

Sometimes we may perceive ourselves to be invisible, but others do notice us. And vice versa. I shop at my local Sears store perhaps once a month, sometimes more, sometimes less. I never thought that anyone noticed me there. One time, at the checkout the clerk waiting on me was training a new employee, and referred to me as one of her "regulars". I did recognize her as a long time employee, but it never occurred to me that she would remember me.
On the other hand, I have worked in the same RE office for over 10 years, first as an assistant to other agents, now at the front desk. One of the agents here has a long time live in SO, who I have met socially on several occasions and also here at the office. Each time she acts as if she has never met me before! Recently I was asked to join a decorating committee for a charity event, and this woman is also on the committee. At our first committee meeting, she walked up to me, hand extended and said, "Hi, I'm Donna ____", as if it was the first time she had ever seen me.

First off, trailrunner, I'm so glad you posted. Please do not feel embarrassed or chagrined. This is one of the most fascinating threads I've ever followed on this board. I also have been following this thread and am simply in awe of the collective wisdom and compassion of this board. We come from all walks of life, communities, ethnicities and age groups; yet I see so many common threads.

While I do not feel invisable now, I did feel that way for much of my early years. I'm the youngest only girl in a family of six. People often had the misconception that I was spoilt, but nothing was further than the truth. My brothers bonded together in a sort of male camaderie which I always felt excluded from and my parents were burned out and tired of raising children. Conversations and activities were geared towards my brothers' interests and political views which often contrasted with my parent's conservatism. It didn't help that my brother closest in age to me is mentally ill and a drug addict; which even today overshadows my mom's life. As some above have said as well, I recognize that my family is largely toxic to me, have accepted it for the most part and have moved on to develop relationships with some other close friends who are my family of the heart. There are two families we are very close with that we get together for special occasions and holidays, Ladies Nights, etc. and I can share anything with. Sometimes my biological family probably doesn't understand why I choose to spend my time with these "friends" over my "family". A part of me feels sad that I have changed and no longer feel close to my biological family, but mostly I'm happier that way as there is so much negativity in my family that it depresses me and I don't like getting sucked into negative emotions. I want to thank everyone here for opening up as it has made me realize that I am not the only one not coming from the Norman Rockwell family dynamic and that we can still be valued dispite this. I've been going through some personal agnst recently and a part of me wonders if I am the only middle aged women to feel this way. Everyone else around me seems calmer and more level headed than I do and I wonder why I do not have more grace in accepting my life and acting like a "mature adult". Knowing that others, like me, are also hurt by insensitivity, lack of consideration and/or feel taken for granted and unappreciated makes me realize these feeling are normal at the same time, that I need to be more sensitive and compassionate to those around me so I'm not guilty of the very behavior which I find so hurtful in others.

I am in my mid 40's, very much busy with raising my family, a busy household, volunteering at school, etc. I am concerned that I have fallen into a trap though of building my life around caring for my family and the home. Reading the posts of the 50-something group makes me realize I am on the same pathway a few miles behind and may well end up with that sense of invisibility once I send my kids off to college.

Well, tr, if you were here, I'd take you on a beautiful, long relaxing bike ride. Waaaay better than a drink! Will the kind thought suffice?

I'm not a grandmother so don't have that perspective. But I remember being a brand new mom & wanting to roll up my sleeves to get to work at it, forging a good bond with my baby right away. I was determined to excel, partly because my own mother wasn't great at it, and I didn't want my precious new son to go through what I had.

But DH had switched jobs, and we moved in with my in-laws half-way across the country when the baby was 18 days old. And my MIL was muscling in on my "territory," insisting my way was new age hokum, that things had to be done her way. Aye yi yi... Things went downhill from there, and I'll just leave the story at that.

I suspect maternal instincts are the last thing to fade in a woman, especially if you've spent 20+ years honing your skills at it. Yours are still pretty keen, probably, and you had surging maternal urges toward your brand new grandbaby. But your DIL (& DS) has more of a need to connect with the new baby right now, especially if it's their first. They needs to develop that intuition that comes from constant & intimate care.

I'm sorry you felt cut out. There will be a time & place for you! Kids love grandparents, and for good reasons. I'm so grateful for mine, and I must say even my toxic MIL was a wonderful grandmother to my kids when they were little. You have so many good qualities to offer, which will become apparent to your grandchildren as they become old enough to forge a relationship with you.

As for DS2, persevere. I pray it's just a brief relapse, that he'll have another go at staying sober. What a heartbreaking thing to go through...

Biking is wonderful therapy, a whole hour or so where you can't ruminate about problems (you have to pay attention to the road or else you'll hit that pothole!). Take a camera along for extra relaxation & diversion.

((Caroline))) I've been reading, holding thoughts and comments until our holiday house emptied and checking frequently to see if you've posted. I'm so sorry to hear the source of your distress and can well imagine how it hurts. Everything I want to say was already said by others but especially awm03. Her experience as a new mother was virtually the same as mine and I had the same issues with my 'toxic MIL' who became a terrific g'mother as well. You will create a wonderful relationship with your grandson, I have no doubt.

We all lead complicated lives in our various ways but being present in this world requires cajones and persistence. I know you have both. And I can feel that you're tired. We all get tired and that's when it helps so much to let someone else carry part of your load as you've done here. You know I have struggles with my youngest son and feel your pain and fear as my own. All I can add is that I (we) hear you, can walk by your side, listen and perhaps offer some perspective or suggestions from time to time, but will always be ready to help you carry whatever heaviness you are feeling.

terricks, don't feel bad, this has happened to me so many times in the past,
being introduced to someone for the 2nd or 3rd time and they think it's the first time, it's a running gag in my family.

trail, nice to hear from you; I'll have to read your post again, I just logged on for a few minutes and saw that you had chimed in. What a thread this has been.

(((((Caroline))))) I am thinking of you. I sent you an email thru GW, but understand that that's not always the most dependable means of communication. I so totally relate to what you've written above, on a number of levels. Please know that you're in our hearts. We care about you.

CF Freeman, please don't fancy yourself psychiatrist just to be seen or heard.

You are not a physician and therefore, have no idea what I have been through nor what you are talking about when it comes to the pain of tic douleureux a/k/a trigeminal neuralgia and/or the neuropathy of multiple sclerosis. FYI, who seem to be ignorant and closed-minded, not willing to listen, TN is one of the main reasons for suicide in women.

I bid you adieu and wish you well in your unhappy life of trying to impersonate professional psychologists and/or psychiatrists.

Hugs, Caroline. You are so honest. I really admire that. You have really bared your soul. I think that makes others feel able to do the same, and that is a very good thing.

This is such a special thread. People showing that they are vulnerable and that they don't have wonderful, perfect, problem-free lives. I think that makes it truly possible to care for others, when they don't have that "My life is great, I'm great, I'm so busy with wonderful things at all times" mask on.

My life isn't perfect either. I am struggling with a problem too, I am struggling to gain weight. (again). Thought I'd share since so you and so many others have. We don't have to wear that mask here!

Thanks for this thread, Caroline.

Such wisdom and understanding. I can almost complete many of the sentences as if they were my own. It is true that none of us are alone. There are several common threads within this one. Over and over you hear the same feelings expressed and the same anxieties and worries. Joys too have been exchanged .

We are a source of comfort for each other . I thank you for responding not only to me but to each other. I am glad that I started this thread after all....I was doubtful at first. I know I am not the only one to have gained some insight and a feeling of community from reading these thought provoking posts.

awm: I wish you were here so we could hit the road ..figuratively speaking only LOL.

dlm: yes there are mutual fears for sure. I thank you and all the others that have offered some much needed strength. The load is lighter after reading this thread.

I am so lucky that DH and I have grown together and maintained our common interests and developed new ones. We have many mutual hobbies as well as distinctly different ones but they all compliment each other. We are each others' source of strength and when one of us falls the other is there to pick up and carry on. I am so thankful for that.

Val said well when she said how different we all are and yet...that is one of the best parts of this forum...how much our differences contribute to the richness of the posts.

AJ...I didn't get your note...try again please. I will send one to you and you can then respond. ((( ))) to every single one of you. c

Trailrunner ((((HUGS)))). I'm not a grandmother (yet) but it must feel like your heart is breaking. I am now a great-aunt and holding that new baby after so many years of holding your own is so neat. I hope that your relationship with your DS's family finds a stability that is satisfying to you all.

This post has also wandered into, not only the feeling of invisibility, but the idea of being alone (as opposed to lonely or maybe that as well). I am about to go out and do some errands. I am going to the library where I will do self-checkout and NOT talk to the librarians like I used to, then I am going to Safeway to pick up my groceries and where I don't have to talk to the check-out people if I don't want to because I can use self-check-out, then I need gas which is self-serve (my parents used to chat with the gas-jockey because he was probably a friend of one of their kids) and then go to the ATM machine to get some money - I won't be talking to a "favourite" teller or say a quick hi to the bank manager. Anybody notice a theme here?

My kids text to their friends and seldom talk to them on the phone, or they're on facebook - other unemotional connections.

We are social beings and it just seems that with that "busy" label that so many carry and with these unemotional connections that we have with technology we are losing a bit of ourselves. And although some might say that GW is that same thing I do know that you people are not computer chips. I do know that behind that keyboard a real person is typing and I wonder how are they doing? By the way, when I can, I do use a real person because I like the face-to-face connection and also if I don't that person may lose his/her job to technology.

Trailrunner, I know you more from the kitchen forum, and I don't always reply there, but I always enjoy following what you are talking about. I scrolled through everything to see if you had returned and was saddened by the situation you found yourself in. Yes, your expectations may have been high, but it doesn't sound like they were unreasonable. Sounds like you DIL has some growing up to do. She sounds insecure and controlling. Little does she realize that the long nights when she has a sick baby, a teething baby, or is sick herself, you won't be there. It's nice to share the work and the love whenever you can. It's not like there is a limit on how much love one child can receive. That's her issue, not your problem. You won't miss the dirty diaper days so much when the toddler runs giggling into your arms. Hang in there.

And yeah, I've felt invisible too.

Trail, I hope you have a wonderful Christmas regardless of everything going on.

I seem to have the extreme opposite, I am almost always noticed and greeted in stores, banks, etc.

The bank tellers call me by name, in stores I am asked several times if I need anything and this happens in Grocery stores of all places too. Ironically, I prefer anonymity, and frequently use the night deposit box or atm at the bank to avoid the teller and love stores that I can wander into and browse without solicitude. Particularly hate boutiques for that reason.
At least at a dept. store on a Saturday I can try on tons of stuff and not feel guilty for not buying anything.
Sometimes even going to the grocery store is irritating as I will run into all sorts of people I know.

I think I receive attention because I am tall and somewhat noticeable. I get compliments from strangers all the time on something: hair, clothes, handbag, skin, etc. so I assume those add up to make me stand out but I think it's the height.

I have an acquaintance who acts like she's never met just about everyone before. It's a running joke with many of us. To me it's a sign of insecurity. They are worried you won't remember them so they do the preemptive strike and act like they haven't met you before. I think they want us to believe that their lives are so full of interesting people they can't possibly remember everyone. I certainly remember her because I think her behavior is odd and pathetic. When I think someone might not remember me I say Hi, I'm Jean we met here/there/wherever. If they don't remember fine, maybe next time they will since I wasn't afraid to re-introduce myself.

This has been such an fascinating thread and it's interesting that so many of us feel the same things. I think a lesson we can take from this is we need to remember when we're feeling ignored or left-out, many of those people ignoring us are feeling that same feeling. How funny is that? We're feeling like it's hard to break into a group or make friends and the group or potential friend might be hesitating because they too feel it's hard to break in.

Sometimes we are being ignored or left-out; people can be mean. But sometimes maybe all it will take to change the situation is to make the first move. And the second.

There is a heritable disorder called Prosopagnosia; it affects millions of Americans, and is the difficulty of recognizing faces. It is a continuum--it can be relatively mild (making people merely think they are odd or pathetic or stuck up) or extreme (some do not recognize close friends or even their own reflections). Many are unaware that they even have this disorder. They may be aware that people are irritated with them, but they may not know why.

Oliver Sacks, the preeminent neuroscientist, suffers from this disorder. His recent book, The Mind's Eye, is about this.

Not to cause controversy in what's turned into a moving & meaningful thread, but I hate to see someone's feelings get hurt:

Patricia, I believe you read some negativity in CEFreeman's comments that wasn't really there & reacted overharshly. Sorry to hear you're having major health issues; it's probably exasperating at times dealing with people who don't fully understand what you're going through. But still, how about giving CEF the benefit of the doubt? To keep the goodwill in this thread going...

We need to remember when we're feeling ignored or left-out, many of those people ignoring us are feeling that same feeling. How funny is that?

How true! I do try to remember that others, like me, may just be worn out emotionally. I wonder if I'd be more interested in making friends if I didn't have a trying (to say the least) teenager, an elderly father, and some troubled siblings who always make sure I know how THEY are feeling.

Trailrunner - I'm sorry! We know that things often don't turn out as we envisioned but it still is shocking and disappointing. I'm sure you never expected over 100 responses from all of us invisible people!

Maureen

Nicely put, Awm03.

Wow, what a thread! I have nothing to write that is as touching, profound, and interesting as some of the thoughts above. But I wanted to add my voice saying this has been an amazing read.
Hope everyone, including the OP, is well. Thanks for making me think today!

BB..yes I am never invisible when I am out and about. We are in a smallish community and through my volunteer work and the running/cycling and other areas of interest it seems I know everyone. I also get stopped frequently and asked about my hair..many want to know who cuts it and how I get it this color of gray LOL...I should get their address and send them one or two of my relatives :)

bl: I know exactly what you mean. A lot of folks choose to remain anonymous. It isn't too hard to do in most communities. You are sure right about the texting...as far as I am concerned it is a disease.

we have gone to the same grocery/bank/green market /hair salon for decades I can't really go anywhere w/o being seen or greeted. I don't really mind. In this area of the South folks remember you in the stores and since many of the stores are small we have had the same checkers for many years. Feels homey.

Nancy: I know how frustrating that can be to try and gain weight . I have a very good friend that is going through this. If you want to email me I have a "recipe" that has worked for many of my home health patients and for my Dad , at one time, and now for my friend. I would be glad to share.

lascatx: I sure hope that we can reconcile all of this. I am sure going to give them all the benefit of time and knowledge that they will gain and hope that they toss that baby in DH's and my arms the next visit.

maureen: NO I never ever expected this.

Patricia I sent you an email. I know you live near me. I am so sorry about your pain. Please email me back. We are all here to help each other for sure.

I am just so moved by ALL of you and your posts. This sure has not been the kind of day I had envisioned. I am off to meditation group. Lots to let go on the breath....c

Extremly infrequent poster/long time lurker here. This thread has been a great read and I have appreciated how open many have been regarding their experiences. I find myself in a transition period in life. My litle birds are leaving the nest and honestly, I had not really considered or envisioned what life would be like after that happened. Lately in thinking about this, I realized that when I graduated from high school, I donned a cap and gown, walked down an aisle, and was given a piece of paper that told me I was transitioning to a new phase in life. Same story with college--cap, gown, aisle, paper. Married? Same thing--cap...er uh...veil, gown, aisle, paper. Become a mother? No cap this time, gown, hospital corridor, paper and voila! But here I am transitioning and this time there is no ceremony or difinitive sign that I am now--what? Empty nester? What about the Grandma business. No real ceremony there either. It has been reassuring to me as I read this thread to find that others are muddling through and are maybe struggling with the change as ungracefully as I am. As I look around it always feels like I am the lone bumbler! I think the key is to have realistic expectations but sometimes it is difficult to know where to aim--when to speak up for myself and when to let things slide. Thanks for this discussion!

Patricia - When I read your post about having TN I sat up in shock. I am so terribly sorry that you have this affliction. I have a dear cyber-friend (the father of an acquaintance of mine) with whom I've been trading emails and news items, etc., for many years. He's a tough old bird, in his eighties, a Korean war veteran; two years ago he went in for surgery and came out with TN, and it has been a dreadful ordeal. Now when I see his name pop up in the Inbox - almost every day - I will think of you also. My prayers that you will somehow find a treatment that will help to alleviate your pain.

For those who don't know what Trigeminal Neuralgia is, go over to Wikipedia and read about it. The pain is excruciating and can be unpredictable. The great and famous writer Colleen McCullough has suffered from TN; it is part of her MS, I think.

Trailrunner -- I'm glad that you came back to clarify for us what you've been going through. I have two sons, both married. When they got married I tried to keep in mind what my mother used to say to me: "A son is a son til he takes a wife; a daughter's a daughter for all of her life." Although we're not estranged, both boys (men now) have been absorbed into their wives' families. I had been very close to DS2's wife, but now that we have a grandson, she has backed away somewhat. Since both families live far from us, it's not an issue on a daily basis, though. But I understand how painful this must be for you. When I asked my cyber-friend with the Trigeminal N. how he managed, he E-ed me back with words that apply to so many situations. He wrote: "As Winston Churchill once said, 'When you're going through h*ll, keep going...'"

Oddly enough, and maybe not so odd, when I'm feeling down, this forum is where I come for a pick-me-up. It's never dull, there's always something happening - like this thread - and I almost always feel that people here "understand". And not only about paint, either!

Invisible? Yes, yes, yes, the older and the grayer, there is just less, I don't know, currency? I can take the people ignoring me, but the automatic sink faucets have me waving away like a lunatic of late, and I find myself sayong "oh, come on!! Now this??!!!"

Trail, I am traveling and late to this thread. So glad you weighed in, as your silence was worrisome. Sorry for your family's behavior. I am also struggling with some sadness that is family related. DH and I are pained by an estrangement from his siblings over a brother's (very) messy divorce drama. We went from feeding 21 last holiday season to quietly eating alone at Thanksgiving. We have much to be thankful for, but still, families can be so cruel.

May the new year bring us all healing.

Patricia, I believe you read some negativity in CEFreeman's comments that wasn't really there & reacted overharshly

I agree, I think that CEFreeman had only the best intentions, and was generalizing and NOT trying to diagnose anyone on this forum. She said:

I don't get this from you at all, but

Trailrunner - I don't post often but felt I could share some advice to "give it time" with the DIL/new baby situation. I had my MIL's first grandchild, and she caused me a lot of stress during my pregnancy...just the way she would say things made me feel like she was just waiting for me to have the baby and hand it over to her!! It was difficult for me to try to relate to her, and I felt like saying to her - this is my turn to have my baby, you already had yours! Fast forward 5 years and I have matured so much as a mother, and we have a great mutual respect now. She is a wonderful grandmother to my kids, and just seeing her love for them really changed the way I relate to her. It did not happen overnight, so be patient and give it time is what I would suggest!

I'll add to jenniferPA:

My MIL is, and has been from the beginning, a person who I would consider to be a best friend.

However....

When I was expecting my first child her excitment was trilling for everyone. But after a while I became extremely irritated that she had purchased just as many baby items as I had. Why did she need a crib at her house? I'm going to be a stay at home mom so I can raise my baby. We lived just two streets away from the inlaws and she always hinted at the fact that her mom would walk with the babies in the middle of the night so she could sleep (from time to time - not always). It was like she was hurt that I didn't ask for this type of help. But I was proud that I could handle it by myself.

Fast-forward to when my son was 3 months old and I was in bed with the worst flu I had ever had. I couldn't move. My MIL was the first person to help. She took time off work so she could be with the baby. She would bring him to me for nursing, then disappear while I slept. I don't think I would have survived that week without her. I always knew that her intentions were good, but it really took that week for me to truly appreciate her efforts.

It took a bit of time, and my MIL backed off enough so I could figure things out on my own. But she always provided requested advice. Trailrunner, I wonder if this is what your DIL needs. Maybe a bit of time to do it all on her own, so her maternal instincts can develop. I couldn't imagine not wanting a grandma like your for a child.

This has been The Best Thread Ever.

"I'm so relieved to know so many others feel as I do!"

Me too. Glad you're back safe Trail.

This is why I keep coming back here. The people.
It's the internet but it's alive in here with real people.

Thank you everyone for giving me so much to think about.
This thread really clarifies what's important, and it's not BM.

Think I'll invite my neighbors in for tea, when I see any of them outside, next chance I get.
And I won't worry if things aren't 'perfect'.
I'll ask them how they are, and listen to them. It's a plan.

Stay Well Cyber Friends!

This has been the most enlightening thread I've ever read here, and so timely for me personally. I, too, was struggling with the reality of my Thanksgiving versus my expectation of Thanksgiving when DS and his family didn't make it to my parents' home, for what will surely be my last Thanksgiving with my parents at 92 and 86, with DM having Alzheimer's. I will take so much of what I read here and use it to adjust my thinking, and with Christmas disappointments around the corner, I'll need to! I guess we all want our little original family back, and it's impossible to fit these new people, with their own original families, in comfortably.

When my beloved grandson was born, I, too, planned to buy a crib for my home, but DS said DIL wasn't ready to let the baby stay away from her overnight. I was supremely disappointed; my mother had a crib at her home when DS and DD were little, so I expected to do the same. Thankfully, he didn't stay at her mother's home either or I may have been painfully jealous. His first night at our home was the night our granddaughter was born, and they've spent many, many, many nights since. They now have their own room

And, if you want to feel completely, utterly visible, just wait. I have never felt so visible in my life. They know my favorite colors, my stories, my loves, my dislikes, everything about me, because they listen, and they love. My favorite picture (and I never take pictures!) is one my little granddaughter took of us together, with her hand cupped under my chin, pulling my face towards her. It is a wonderful time and I hold every moment to my heart. Yours will be the same.
Dee

Just breathe it out,c. This too will pass.

Trailrunner,

Glad to hear you are ok. I hope things get better or at least easier on you ... and with your attitude I am sure they will.

Wow, trailrunner, I need to re-read your situation more closely, since from what I've managed to read, I had a very similar situation with my MIL upon the birth of my DD. If you are comfortable, and wish to "talk" further, feel free to email me at xworkinprogressx@gmail.com.

I am the DIL in what was a very bad relationship with my MIL. Too much in the way of expectations, anger, misunderstandings, letdowns, much on my part, and alot on hers as well. Fortunately, our relationship changed, and is now a very good one. I don't really want to air all of my personal life in great detail on GW. So, in the event that you want to hear another perspective, email me privately. I will check that account in a few days. If not, I totally understand.

Hope you're feeling better today.

This has been an amazing thread. What leaps out for me is the difficulty many express in making friends, as this has been something I've struggled with since losing all my friends but one to various cancers--and now my remaining close friend has other serious health issues. I also find people too busy with family, other friends, commitments or whatever, but am really encouraged by this thread to consider that if so many here express this issue, then IRL I'm likely not as alone in this as I had thought..hmmm maybe there is hope!!
TR-glad you are back!

I see that we are almost at the dreaded 150...don't know what i will do tomorrow :) What a testament this thread has been to the BEST things about the internet and the small world we live in.

A couple years ago I had a continued post " My mama used to..." and it received much of the same kinds of responses that this one has. I printed it out at that time. Only the last part is still viewable on GW.

I wish I had been able to get back to the thread sooner so I could have included everyone in comments as they appeared. I had no internet so it wasn't possible and it would have pushed us to the 150 already so I will just think that things happen as they should.

red: I love that analogy...paper/gown....had never thought of it that way. It used to be that the formal entry into grandmahood was the assistance that each generation gave to birth the next. We don't really have that so much anymore. But DIL's mom was there for it all and stayed on for 1 1/2 wks. DS1 said that DIL didn't really want her to hold the baby or do anything either. She did buy a ton of things and took lots of pics. You are for sure not the lone bumbler !!!

sable: what a great story about your friend. I DO hope Patricia will see it. My running friend's grandfather used to say " never say whoa in a mud hole ! " so I think that is the same thing LOL.

celtic: I am sorry that you are having sad times with family. All we can each do is circle the wagons and hold on to those that are close. Sounds like you did just that this T'giving. I am so glad you posted.

amj, jennifer and dee thank you for each posting your stories . It all helps.

Since we don't talk to DIL at all unless we are there I have had no input of any kind during the pregnancy. I haven't bought anything but the changing table and she was thrilled with that. I haven't contributed anything but the "lost" books...they got 49 of them and 108 are gone for good ( don't want to go into that but they are definitely gone according to the MRC in Atlanta ) .

I took photos of DS1 as a new baby and framed them and we made a great collage of pics of us and DS1 as an infant. She did hang a couple on the wall but the rest are still in a pile. The walls of their apts have always been covered by pics of "her" family. I have wanted to add ours but she never makes it seem like she wants them and no comment at all on the pics...she just stared at them and didn't say anything about how sweet DS1 looked as a baby etc. I was hurt by that too.

I don't want to go on and on but in my world and in DH's there is a certain modicum of politeness that is expected and a level of respect that is shown to your parents. We are always surprised at not only our DIL's lack in that respect but also in DS1's. Since he has married and as the years have gone by it is very noticeable . I know I am not imagining it as DH says how amazed he is that basic polite social skills seem to be missing. My DD has them so I know that they still exist LOL.

I will of course continue to do whatever I am asked and wait patiently and not push...I swore I wasn't going to ask to hold the baby and then I would finally break down and ask and be told no...I just never ever have seen a new Mom that didn't want everyone to admire and ooh and ahh and cuddle her new one. Guess I am in a different world..dunno. But I can be patient and I am going to do my very best at it !

biochem : what a great enthusiastic response ! "This is why I keep coming back here. The people.
It's the internet but it's alive in here with real people." FOR SURE !

Sue: the 45 minutes flew by...I did exactly that! Thank you. if any of you have read the works of Pema Chodron she has some excellent books. Tonight I sat with my group and all I did was breath in the "bad sad" feelings and breath out "strong positive" feelings and sent them to each of the children. I thought their name on the inhale/exhale and then moved on to the next name...over and over for 45 min. I felt so good when I finished. Came home and DH and I made a simple dinner and then I talked to my cycling friend in Green Bay WS about our proposed bike ride across Canada next summer. Then I came here...what a great day.

Mntrd: Thank you ...I needed that..a vote of confidence is a good thing.

WIP...I will email you...thank you for sharing your thoughts and I am so glad it has worked out well for you.

I am going to cut /paste this thread. It is SO worth saving. c

kkay I'm so glad you mentioned this!

"There is a heritable disorder called Prosopagnosia; it affects millions of Americans, and is the difficulty of recognizing faces."

I don't "see" like other people see. I HEAR everything, I detect the slightest accents and the characteristics of people's voices, but I don't see.

I could stand there and speak directly to a new person for 20 minutes and if I had to describe that person later, I could not do it. I couldn't even report if they had long or short hair or if they wore glasses or not. There is NO chance I could describe such subtle details as the contours of a face or any facial features.

Many acquaintances have commented to my husband that when they see me I refuse to acknowledge them. My own sister-in-law recently told me that I looked her right in the eye as she came out of the grocery store, but that I didn't say anything. If that happened, I obviously did not recognize her at that moment.

After my husband heard from enough people, I began telling people when I first meet them, that I won't recognize them by sight in the future. I tell them to speak to me and remind me of how I know them, and then the light will come on and I'll remember everything we talked about before. But the SIGHT of them won't bring back any memories, because I don't really see people.

I never understood my problem until I saw a televised story about Prosopagnosia. I don't know anyone else that has it but they must be out there!

So again, I try not to assign any negative motives to people that don't seem to notice me. There really are many, many innocent explanations for the behavior.

On a separate note, I have only recently begun to understand the minefield that one must navigate as a mother-in-law. I even bought a book, though I haven't read it yet. I never anticipated how challenging it can be to deal with grown children. Why didn't Oprah warn us about this? Where is all the information explaining how our roles will change and giving us helpful information about how to make that transition? There should be an entire new series dedicated to this subject!

I appreciate the support, folks.

My 75 year old mother is dealing with TN from shingles.

MILs are another story and could be a whole 'nother lengthy thread, can't they? [LOL!]

Take care.
Be good to yourselves!

{{gwi:1883885}}

{{gwi:1883887}}

4 weeks old with Grandma and Grandpa !

They say a picture is worth a thousand words...priceless!
Sending good thoughts today~~

He is holding eye contact and smiling at grandma!!! It must be love!

Nice pictures!

Can it be? The response limit has been lifted for such an important post?

I would like to see a segue thread about creating friendships as empty nesters since it seems many of us are at that crossroads. This one has stayed on the Deco side which increased traffic so hopefully a Friend thread could, too.

BEAUTIFUL pictures! I agree he is locked onto you for sure. Re: your DIL - My DH practices a version of torture when he tries to elicit change in people - he becomes a drop of water, a continual, slow drip, drip, drip...... calmly, patiently, lovingly repeating the same phrases and he finds that eventually creates an opening for him. I have no such patience and tend to be direct - probably too direct! My oldest son received some invaluable training with troubled teens and has another approach that he practices now with any person or situation, not just teens. I will get the specifics from him for you.

He is a peach for sure !! and this post is over 150.... nice :)

Thank you guys !! c