I got three things about its current placement. When its open, its blocking the doorway. The ref doors may not be able to be opened enough to clean the ref or use/remove its drawers. The island is actively in the way of ref uses that require produce to be washed.

The island isn't quite three feet from the cabinets on the doorway wall and the corner of the island that, shall we say, highlights and poses a hazard to the butt of anyone working at the sink who takes a step backwards, and it also seems to have a very narrow aisle.

Moving the ref to the doorway wall involves narrowing the island so that you have an aisle left after the ref. Some counterdepth ref are up to 30" deep. I don't think you would have much usable island top left.

I would merge the two islands into one, personally.

I think you are right about the fridge location. It is not good to have it around the island from the sink like that. Also, unless you have a fridge like a SZ or Thermador with special hinges, you won't be able to open the door fully enough to open and take out drawers with it up against the wall. The 3" spacer won't be enough for most models. But maybe your KD has already checked that with your choice of refrig?

If you return the fridge to the east wall, you might need more of an aisle between it and the island. It looks pretty tight. Should be 42" or so.

If the dw is open, it'll be in the way of getting from the sink to the stove, and vice-versa.

Where will you store dishes? I'd want them close to the dishwasher.

I know next to nothing about wine, but it seems you have a point there, too.

I agree that the fridge should be on the east wall. Although heat is not good for wine, I don't think having the wine rack above the microwave is a problem unless you plan to use the microwave for more then warming up leftovers.

Thanks so much for the input.

bmorepanic, are you suggesting creating a u shaped kitchen or just eliminating the island all together?

I have not made appliance choices yet...I am still stuck with gas vs induction and if gas what range!

I thought I would post a picture of the house plan to see if it helps and I found a picture of the kitchen from this plan that looks like it was built to spec.

I hand wrote in some of the distances in one of the pics....

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

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At what point does the island become too small to be usefull? I've never had a kitchen large enough to accomidate one before. But with it at the original size there is better spacing with the fridge and dishwasher.

What rooms are around the kitchen? That can also have an impact as to where the refrigerator is optimally placed. Refrigerators and MWs should be placed where they are accessible from inside and outside the kitchen...without those outside interfering with those inside! That usually means a location on the periphery of the kitchen but also near the FR or DR.

I think you are correct to be concerned. Right now, your island is a definite "barrier island." Work flows from the refrigerator to the sink and right now you will have to walk around the island each time you need to get into the refrigerator.

I also question whether there's enough room to stand in front of the sink when the DW is open (e.g., when loading). Most people seem to have 12" to 15" cabinets next to the DW to provide the needed room to stand.

Yet another concern I have is that your range is on what looks to be the most heavily traveled path in your kitchen (but cannot be sure until I know what rooms are where). Ranges/cooktops should, ideally, be protected from traffic...you really don't traffic jams while trying to take a pot of boiling water across the path and kitchen to the sink.

Do you have a pantry elsewhere? Right now you do not appear to have that much storage room in the kitchen. This is partly b/c two of your "walls", south & west don't exist. And, while it looks very nice, the angled island does waste space. What are your current aisle widths? 42" is s good width (some are OK w/36" if it's not a thoroughfare). Perhaps if you did something like this...

No, it's not fancy...but it's simple and, IMHO, functional. You might even consider making your range & hood your "bling"...your "Wow!" factor! You might consider either moving the center island more to the center...but then you'll need a prep sink either on the center island or range wall (to prevent the center island from becoming a barrier b/w the sink & range)

Sorry, can't speak to the wine issue!

Sorry....didn't see your second post ClarkeBar1!

If that last pic is your inspiration pic, then you probably don't want the simple lines of the two islands...if there's room. That's OK...it's your kitchen!

18" + 25.5" + x + 30" + X + 25.5"....leaves you w/33.5" aisles...not wide enough! If, you reduce the island to 27" and the bottom overhang to 15", you gain 6" but that's just 36.5" aisles...may or may not work. It also looks like the straight island may not work b/c of the angled walls....well, something to think about.

Good luck!

Can you eliminate the end leg of the peninsula where the DW is? I realize those are walls but are the half walls? If you can eliminate that leg, I move the DW to the left of the sink and elongate the island by two feet in that direction. Then I add a prep sink on the end of the island closest to the frig and stove. Sorry I can't do drawings that the GREAT ONES on this forum... but that's my 2 cents worth.

What Buelh said about widths. In the orig plan, the aisle between the range and island and the parallel side of the other island would both be a bit less than 40". The aisles in the opposite direction would be 47".

I have to admit that I have never cared for the shape used in the outer island because of stuff like opening the dw means you can't use part of the sink because the dw door is now in front of it. The same is true of drawers on the other side of the sink. In your case, if you have multiple cooks, it creates a wait point for water and sink use - you can't even sneak in from one side because of the angle.

Pink line represents (roughly) the maximum single island size.
{{!gwi}}

Just thought I would add my 2 cents so to speak- as someone who bought a resale house with a kitchen island that cuts the work triangle. While we love the island as a gathering place, it is a disaster when it comes to cooking. Too much walking around to get from fridge to sink to stove. Seriously rethink any plan that doesn't have an unimpeded path from the fridge to sink (to wash produce) and from sink to the stove. Also, as noted by others, you can't put a side-by-side fridge next to a wall- the doors usually require 18" on each side to open fully to allow produce draers to be opened.No offence, but I would be worried about any kitchen planner that would not know this...

I feel like I need clear a couple of things up. The design for the house is a "Donald Gardner" plan that we purchased as we thought it worked well for us...it is not a custom design.

The photo of the finished kitchen is not an inspirational photo...it was taken from the Gardner web site that had pictures of our plan finished. There is nothing extra-special that "belongs" to me in it's design. DW is more fond of it than am I.

It was not a kitchen planner that made the changes seen above, it was our cabinet guy who made the sugestions...so kitchen planning is not his forte....

Back to the photo...Buehl, you really got me thinking. I don't have an inspirational pic and perhaps I need one. ASAP. I like the flow with the breakfast room and the main "great" room. We have always entertained from within the kitchen so we wanted something open and connected. We thought this fit.

DW likes the raised counter of the bar and we both want easy movement into the north and west (breakfast area/great room). The first blue-print pic should depict that well.

I feel as though I may have opened the perverbial pandora's box.

Bmorepanic, does the pink outline represent a workable sized island? It looks almost too deep...I wish I had a better visual sense than I do.

I suppose I need to go out and get a bunch of kitchen mags and start looking for that inspiration!

Jay

We are building our home now, also in the foundation stage and your kitchen is a lot like ours. I would definitely suggest moving the refrigerator to the short wall as it will block the door where it is now. We are having the recycle/trash pull-out next to the sink with the dishwasher on the other side like you have. If you do that you eliminate the island which I think you will eventually hate. When you get in you will probably see that that island takes up a lot of floor space and will feel crowded with only 3' or less between it and the counters/cupboards. As for the wine rack, there probably won't be that much heat from the MW but heat rises and the general heat from the kitchen could be more of a problem, could you perhaps move the wine storage area to a lower area, even where the refrigerator on the long wall is now?

Hello,
I have an input to the wine rack over MW concern (is that still the plan? I haven't kept up w/ the changes).
I work for a wine boutique and we pride ourselves on controlling the temperature that our wine is subjected to.

I'm not sure how hot/warm your MW gets and how frequently you use it, but the concern is that the wine is subjected to constant change of temperature.

But if you love your wine and go through it like a fish, then you may not have anything to worry about. However, since you're designing your kitchen, I would definitely find another place for it, like in the bottom of a pantry.

"Proper temperature is another major factor is ensuring your wine stays drinkable before you open it...If the conditions are too warm, the wine will age faster than it should.

The optimum temperature for storing wine is 50 to 55°F (10-12°C)... Many people store their wine in cellars to maintain these temperatures, but small collections can be kept in wine cabinets, which come in all sizes and styles to fit your personal tastes.

Almost as important as the actual temperature is the **rate of temperature change**. A ten degree change over a season is harmless, but frequent and rapid changes can severely damage wine, even when stored within the desired range."

good luck.
Amanda