I, too, would be concerned about the narrow island, especially considering the type of work to be done in this kitchen. I would be even more concerned about widening it, though. First, assuming you're using standard base cabinets, your aisles are already narrower than you have depicted in your diagram. You need to account for a 1- to 1.5-inch overhang on your counters for both the island and perimeter. So, your aisle between the sink counter and island, for example, is already really only 37 or 38 inches wide instead of 40 inches. This, in my opinion, makes that layout unworkable for your needs, and widening the island would only make it worse.

Would you consider flipping the work and eating areas? If you could put the bigger items, such as your refrigerator, up in the area with the bay window, you could have a much more workable arrangement. Here's a very rough drawing of what I'm thinking. This puts the fridge more accessible to the family room, moves the sink into the bay window, and keeps the baking area with ovens down in the bottom left corner. It also gives you a much wider island. You might even still be able to fit a hutch in the bottom right corner.

Can you please reduce that picture size and perhaps the resolution?

Can you state the overall room dimensions, the dimensions of the window and window bump out and their location AND LASTLY locate the doors and the hallway to the pantry?

Is there anything in the wall adjoining the pantry - oh like water pipes?

Are there two bakers?

If you can't flip the layout like holligator suggested (which I really like), I would make an extra deep (like cabinets back-to-back) peninsula to the right of the DW (so that you have a big U) and no 2nd sink.
I loved using my extra big island (?6.5' by 4') for baking. I couldn't imagine having only 24" (less since you'll be worried about things falling off the sides.

just an idea...

Amanda

What's in the area behind the refridge? and is that 24 a pantry to the right of the fridge? My angle is to recess those appliances to get back the 36" depth in the island.

First off - huge thanks for the responses! You're confirming my concerns.

Holligator - you're right about the overhangs. We currently work with a 36 1/2" counter-to-counter space between the sink side and current island. This seems to work for us. I suppose from the comments, this is officially too tight.

I truly appreciate the creativity of your proposed design. Currently, our 3 windows are below knee height, so they would have to be raised. Initially, we considered a similar design, because the windows do open to our backyard, patio and beautiful fish pond.

This design kinda moves the sink "into" the family room. Though it's only a few feet closer, it doesn't feel right. Also, the eating area seems to be in a deadend.

I definitely do like the feel of a really large kitchen, which is what your design offers.

Bmorepanic - sorry about the picture size (first post). Trying again. The overall room size is 22' by 12'6". The location of the pantry and powder room doors is pretty close: there is only 6" of wall for each.

The window bump out is 24" deep and 7'10" wide. The window over the sink is 3' wide.

Behind the fridge and oven wall is half garage, half pantry. The wall does have water pipes in it.

Two bakers 3/4ths of the time.

Amanda - thanks for another interesting suggestion of the penninsula. Definitely afraid of the deadend feel inside the U.

michaelwcw - Behind the fridge is our garage. Yes, that 24 to the right is a pantry unit. I like that thought of pushing the wall out a bit to increase the width of the aisle.

Picture with couple more measurements below.

What about this crazy thought: suppose we were to switch to Gaggeneau ovens with the swing out doors rather than traditional oven doors? Am I fooling myself into thinking we could have a narrower island?

Again - appreciate all of your input.

If I'm understanding the thought behind your notion on the ovens correctly; I don't believe it would impact your ability to change the island depth. Ovens are a standard width and depth regardless of what direction their doors open. If you had a 30" oven that fit into a 24" cab you'd need the same amount of clearance for door swing. The only oven I can see being different that that would be one like the Jade French Oven where there are two doors that open like a French door frig. I hope that made sense.

12 foot 6 inches is 150 inches. Each sidewall cabinet run is 25ish inches deep, subtract that and we have 100 inches in the center of the kitchen. If we subtract 26" for the island countertop, we're left with 74", divided by 2 is each aisle is 37" counteredge to counteredge.

I do a bit of baking, but not like you guys surely do. Could you tell us about the relationship YOU LIKE between the flour, the oven, the water, the ref, the cooktop, tool storage, pan storage, roll out, knives, kneading area, etc. What kinds of things you make and a care package in the mail would be cool too! ;)

Well, you and I could be twins!

We purchased the Gaggenau 30" double wall oven for precisely the reason you're thinking of it: I was concerned about the ability to comfortably get into a traditional swing-down oven.

The width of our aisle, from countertop-to-fridge / oven wall, is 37". Now remember, the oven will stand out from your cabinetry. In our house, the width from island countertop-to-oven door (closed) is 35".

I love to bake. I am NOT a professional baker (by any means), but we bake on an almost daily basis (I've got two small children and we bake together) and our island (the countertop) is 33" wide. Honestly, I think even for our loving-hands-at-home needs it would be hard to imagine a 24" countertop -- it just seems puny. And our island is by no means large!

Our kitchen was finished this past May, so I do not have a super-long experience, but so far the Gaggenau are hit-or-miss for me. Or maybe not hit-or-miss, but not as incredible and amazing as I'd been led to believe by the Gaggenau-hype. Maybe I'm an idiot (although I don't think so), but so far it's just a "fine" baking experience, However, I LOVE the side-opening feature. I LOVE the humongous glass window and the fact that it stays cool, even at the hottest of temperatures. I LOVE that whenever the oven is on the interior lights remain on the whole time -- no fiddling with an "oven light on / off" switch. I LOVE how insanely easy it is to operate the ovens. I just wish their baking was a bit more even / better.

But, I'm already learning when to switch pans around (which I never thought I'd have to do with convection but yes I do!) and which side will brown faster, so I guess it's like everything ....

I was think along the same lines as Michael. It would help if you could post a bit more of how the kitchen relates to the rest of the house--particularly the size/ layout of the laundry room.

How 'bout if you put the Wall Oven all the way to right of that run and went to 12" deep on the balance of that wall, except bumped the fridge into the pantry, as far right as possible. I know it's kinda a painful trade-off: counter-space vs. pantry-space. Only you can weigh that out!

I love my pantry and only think it could be better larger, but looking at your plan before I read through, I had the same thought of recessing that wall of appliances into the pantry and whatever is beside, if possible. Also, could holligator's plan be just as nice flipped? In it, the table and fridge are by the laundry, with the family room and family who are wanting to eat and get beverages at the opposite end.

Oh, I guess that's the fridge by the family room and the ovens on the other side of the cooktop...But the fridge is then not too convenient to cooking, with a long trip from stove to fridge. Anyway, I like the plan, but wanted to ask if we could get the seating to the family room end.

I agree with everyone that you'll really miss the extra foot of depth on the island. It might be different if you'd never had one before, and if you weren't doing such large projects.

I have the F&P dbl oven, but have the same complaints you have about your Gaggenau. There are certainly things I like about my oven, too, but I still have to shift pans and things brown too fast/unevenly...Problems I didn't think I'd have with convection, and things my old thermal oven might have done better. DH was even wondering about switching them out, but I can see it's not just with my oven or this brand. Awhile back I did a huge batch of dinner rolls (about 180 for a party) as a favor for a friend, since I have 'the better oven.' She did 2 full racks of rolls at a time in her cheapo gas range oven without a problem, but when I tried to do multirack baking, using the proper convection mode, I had all sorts of uneven browning problems. I checked with the cooking forum and they said I shouldn't have used convection and maybe done less at a time...Left me wondering about all the convection hype.

All - again, thanks for the ideas and suggestions.

remodelfla - not ready to do a french door oven, too "industrial" looking.

bmorepanic - gosh - right down to simple math. Thanks!
Our likes (all based on what works right now).
-- flour, sugar end up in big tubs on the counter, stored in cabinets today
-- I'm a little obsessive about constantly washing my hands, so the sink needs to be close to the main work area. I suppose we could learn to work in the seating area of the proposed island, after moving the chairs/stools away.
-- The fridge, during baking, isn't access that often (butter and eggs, milk are already at room temperature).
-- Cooktop is in same location to sink to prep area, works well today.
-- Tools, pans, rolpat, etc. We have way too many tools, especially for the cake decorating part. They're all stored in the pantry today, in translucent bins and trays. Organization is one of my wife's many, many fine attributes.
-- Kneading ... not for business, though I used to make bread every week. We're down to kneading only a dozen times a year or so.

http://www.oohlaala.com rmkitchen - thanks so much for sharing. I'm sad to hear that the Gagg ovens, as expensive as they are, do not perform well. They are gorgeous. We've seen them in stores. Beautiful finish, HUGE glass (that I love because I'm definitely a "peaker"). You have a beautiful kitchen. What is the clearance between the oven and your island?

ci_lantro - existing first floor plan below.

michaelwcw - hadn't really thought of changing a wall, and not sure what we could do. Hmmm, need to give this some thought. You can see from the current floor plan that the pantry doesn't run the length.

rhome410 - I'm starting to miss not having 36" of island and it hasn't happened yet.

You'd only be able to bump the fridge into the pantry and with that(the fridge) at 12" deep(because the rest is in the pantry and it's neighboring cabinets and the wall oven(the only remaining 24" deep piece in that area) down by the laundry doorway you could have the 36" countertop on the island.