If I had it I wouldn't use it. But I'm in a nice climate. I've lived where it was cold though and I guess a cold clammy counter would be unpleasant to eat off. And yet we aren't supposed to put our elbows on the table so I shouldn't be feeling it anyway. I'm a bit of an energy miser when it comes to things I don't think I need (golly we didn't need that when *I* was a youngin' why would I need it now!?).

And how would you keep the cat off?

Some people like heated toilet seats. Others just get reminded that someone else sits there.

Anyway I don't think it's the future but it may not go away.

We went to a Holiday home tour last year that featured a LARGE island that had seating for 4 on one side. Under the granite counter overhang was some sort of heating feature. I am not mechanical so I didn't even pay attention to the explanation. Basically, the homeowner wanted the granite to feel warm when she sat at her island and her contractor actually figured out how to do it and did the work herself...

There's a looong (and lively) thread about this very question somewhere around here, posted maybe 2 months ago?

I thought one of the benefits of stone was the cold surface for rolling out doughs and making candy...

"I've lived where it was cold though and I guess a cold clammy counter would be unpleasant to eat off. "

The counters are almost always at room temperature.

Heavy stone counters feel cool since they have a very large thermal mass, are cooler than your body, conduct heat very well, and you cannot put enough heat into them when touching them to warm the above room temperature much.

A typical Formica covered counter is not as heavy and do not conduct heat as well.

When you touch one the spot you touch quickly warms up so that it does not feel cool.
The low thermal mass and poor heat conductivity both allow this.

I wouldnt want heated counters. I like the feeling of cool, clean counters in the kitchen and bath.

Heated floors are another matter...

Actually surfaces in that house were not always at room temperature. Their temperatures depended on what part of the badly insulated house they tied into and how well they conducted heat.

Anyway, as Brickeyee helpfully points out, granite feels cooler, and as I mentioned, in cooler climates, one might not like that feel.

I think that's kind of weird but then again I live in Southern California where that sort of thing isn't necessary. For me, counters aren't really that cold, so what would be the point?

There was a long thread here a couple of months ago.

I wish I had done it. I live in the fog. The granite can feel awfully cold in the morning on the forearms.

I'm in Michigan so it's quite cool here in the winter ;)

I've noticed the stone is nice and cool this summer but I know it's gonna be very cold in the winter no matter what. Heated floors are a must these days, but counters I'm not so sure...

I don't think that this will ever catch on as a must have, even though you've had several mentions of it within the last year. The most common initial gut response has been "yuck" rather than "really!" There will always be a few who put something different into their homes because they want to solve a special technical problem, or want to show off their engineering skill, or want to impress with the latest thing. If your friends fall into that category, heated counters are as good a thing to put "impress me" money into as anything else. I'd personally rather have a hand blown glass chandelier or a specialty tile backsplash, or hand carved rare wood corbels, or petrified wood floors, or real lead crystal knobs, or something else..... Everyone has their own version of "wow" that they want in their home.

To be fair, those that don't live in very bitter climates really can't say how they'd react to ice-cold granite in the mornings. When the slab has been in a 45degree kitchen all night and the heat only kicks on when you get up at 7:00AM, I can promise you that you won't be using that counter for laying out breakfast, or anything that's warm, for at least a few hours. I used to have granite, here in Maine, and the freezing stone was one big factor that convinced me to switch to something else. I got so sick of my coffee cooling off in half a minute if I forgot and set it down.

Personally, though, I'd say that if you don't like cold surfaces, don't get stone counters at all. Plus, is it maybe another electrical gadget that will ultimately break and need expensive rewiring and repair?

I agree with Circuspeanut about it being a highly climate dependent issue.

Cool, stone counters would range from a benefit to a neutral in houses in warm to moderate climates, or in cold-climate houses where the indoor temps are kept all the time above 75F. But in cold climates few people do that for practical, economic, and environmental reasons.

I think you have to differentiate, too, whether the use of the counter is primarily for prep work and setting things on vs. a stone counter that is intended to be used as an eating surface with seating. The latter would generate the highest need for a not-too-cold-to-touch counter.

Where I am in northern NY stone was traditionally used (and still is in my house) as pantry shelves to keep things cold, which it does very well.

I have a bluestone hearth under one of our always-burning (and too hot to touch) woodstoves. I mistakenly thought it would acquire and re-radiate heat from the stove and be cozy for the cats to sit on. They avoid it like the plague and one day I stood on it with bare feet in January - it was freezing! When I move the kitchen and we take apart the hearth that slab is being moved out to serve as a back step. Who cares how cold it gets there!

In my new kitch I plan to have stone only in a few places: a marble pastry slab set into a wood counter and around my prep sink to handle water splashing. Everywhere else it will be wood or zinc counters, primarily for temperature reasons.

L

"it's gonna be very cold in the winter no matter what."

Only if the room is cold.

In wintertime in a freezing cold climate, the coldest point in a room determines the psychological feeling of comfort/discomfort. If a room's thermometer reads 70 or 75 degrees Fahrenheit one might feel very cold because that thermometer is not at the coldest spot in the room, and ALSO because there might be a heat sink (cold source) like large windows, a leaky wall, or a large cold-feeling thermal mass. Any large cold thermal mass is felt as "Cold". Heat (and its opposite, called Antiheat or Cold) radiate through space, so a large Cold thermal mass near a window will feel even colder because it acts as a heat sink (a cold source).

In some climates, floors in large buildings are heated. In these buildings one feels a sense of comfort because the building is warm no matter how much cold air comes in when a thousand people traipse in and out. First, the building is huge so it has its large mass to begin with. Then, that mass is heated.

In a "home" one may attempt to get the same sense of comfort using whole-house floor heat (hydronic) or spot applications of heat (either hydronic or electric). It's the sense of comfort that is The Goal. A warm floor, not hot. When one's feet and ankles are kept warm, the rest of one's body needs far less heat-coddling. You feel cold less often, or never. They write this out, on web sites that sell electric floor heat cables. If you are in a warm climate, don't even think about commenting on this. As circuspeanut graciously pointed out, those that don't live in very bitter climates really can't say how they'd react. To be fair to this subject, refrain from ewwing, and refrain from commenting that you wouldn't be able to live in the north because it's freezing cold there.

When a floor is heated, heat from the floor travels up the legs of tables, chairs, and furniture. (Whether or not you may feel it.) Heat from the floor also travels up the counter return (side) panel if you have one on the end of your counter run. Heat travels (radiates) through space too, coming up from below. They write this out, on web sites that sell electric floor heat cables. If you are in a warm climate, don't even think about commenting on this.

If you have moved around a lot and seen (felt) winter cold in very different climates affecting you in totally different ways depending on how the building was built and how it was heated, you may be able to confirm some of this, or all of it. People who have worked in big buildings in Edmonton or Winnipeg will certainly be able to confirm this. One of my sisters has lived in SF and area twice in her life for several years at a time. She comments that in SF the homes feel cold in the winter, but not in the north or northeast where she has also lived for many years.

brickeyee has explained why a large mass is cold (feels cold) even though is temperature is the same as the room's temperature.

Heat in this thread is gentle warmth; it does not mean "HOT"; it does not mean you might want a hot countertop; it does not mean you might want to melt butter. There ARE some countertops on some dining room buffets that are designed to keep hot food hot. This is not the subject here. Here, the concept is gentle warmth.

They make minor circuits that keep fridge door gaskets warm. (Fridge manufacturers put them into some fridges, inside the fridge metal wall, next to the gasket). The warmth these "cables" put out prevents condensation from occurring on the door gasket. A puny circuit of that size can make a difference. They are easy to buy as spare parts in any refrigeration supply store. A bigger circuit of the size they sell for a small bathroom floor can also make a difference. They are easy to buy from a number of web sites. These circuits (cables) have sheathing; they are not exposed. They get warm, not hot like the wire in a toaster. The cable can be strung along to warm up the perimeter of the counter instead of spacing it densely as is done in floor heat applications. (Gluing it and protecting it is a subject for another day).

"it's gonna Feel very cold in the winter no matter what" is the way to say it to get brickeyee to agree.

Having a warmer counter will keep hot coffee hot for a few more minutes.

Having a warmer counter will cause the room to feel warm, or warmer than otherwise. All heat is good to have (when in a freezing cold climate). The true heat output is true heat is real heat is therefore less heat needed from the other thingies that produce and radiate heat.

I live in a cold climate. December thru January means below zero outside many mornings. I love my granite counters. I have never ONCE noticed that they feel cold. Having said that, I do not have a "breakfast counter" or eat at the counter (I have a kitchen table made of wood for eating), nor do I put my elbows or arms on the counter. So to me, this heated counter idea comes down to how you use your counter. If you are leaning on it, I suppose someone might like to have it be warm, though frankly I'd spend the money for beautiful wood instead. If you are using the counter just for food prep as I do, then the counter should not be heated. Hey, I leave my butter out on the counter a lot!

I'll link the previous thread that some people have mentioned.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread Called Heated Countertops

Quite a few of our members have had heated granite eating counters over the years, and we've had a few arguments about the whole is it really colder issue.

While it is true that your stone counter will be room temperature, it does not change temperature very quickly. Houses where the people aren't home during the day often have the thermostat set low all day, then they warm up the air just before the work and school people are due home, and go low again, at least in the zone that includes the kitchen, at bedtime, just to warm up again, briefly, for breakfast. The air warms a lot faster than the stone. The counter is cold. The area around the counter is cold because the counter is sucking in heat from the air. There could even be convection from the heater heating the air over there and the counter sucking heat over here, creating a bit of a draft.

Direct heating of the counter to warm it back up to room temperature helps even out the heating, and makes the stone more pleasant. That's why they heat the granite.

I would say, from my experience, that a counter down to 65 degrees is tolerable, and one that is below 60 degrees is painful to work at, let alone eat at.

Fine Home building and this old house magazines have articles about it. We plan on doing it with our island if the budget doesn't break with granite. You have a switch so it is only on when you want it on.

Its only Sept. and already I've noticed our granite bathroom counter is awfully cold in the morning and at night.

Responses on even this TKO forum so far suggest only some feel any need, and it's likely most of those would choose among other, more...simple solutions. And, as Fori points out, how WOULD you keep the cat off?

We don't live an extremely cold climate (mid-Atlantic) but it does get cold here. However, we can't turn our heat way down when people are not home or asleep b/c it's not energy efficient for us to do so. We have a heat pump, so we have to keep the temp set within a few degrees in either direction, otherwise, it's a waste of electricity b/c the heat pump will have to run constantly in order to get the room back to the right temperature and could cause the auxiliary heat to start running, which is a really energy hog. I can't imagine my kitchen going to 45 degrees as it would take forever to get it back to a warm temp (and I don't keep my house hot in winter, we are usually at 68 degrees when people are home and awake).

All that said, even if I lived in a cold climate like Maine, I would not wanted heated counters.

I have noticed that the coldest stone counters are in winter in California where some people seem to only use heat as needed and some houses are relatively poorly insulated; it takes hours for the stone to acclimatize to a change in temperature once the heating kicks in. For those of us in colder climates who use thermostats to keep an even teperature, counter tempsratures are not an issue.

Honestly, I imagine the biggest reason this won't catch on is that in 10-15 years, energy costs will be high enough that the temperature of your counter will not be critical enough to warrant spending extra money on. :) But I could be wrong. I'm in one of those CA houses scrappy25 talks about---our kitchen doesn't even have heat, so in winter it's down in the 40s/50s at night, which is probably comparable to the temps most people in the colder climes drop their thermostats to in the winter months. But I still haven't found it a huge issue; if I'm using it for warm things and it's chilly, I put down a towel or wood cutting board and work on that. I also don't put Pyrex dishes out of the oven directly on the counter if it hasn't warmed up just as a precaution for cracking the dishes (though the only time that's ever happened to me, it was from heat rather than from cold anyway). But otherwise, there are more times when I want the counter cooler than the room (dough, etc.) than when I'd rather it be warmer, so not worth the money.