Consider a movable cart? a movable table? instead of the peninsula. Can you upload your plan?

If you use the peninsula for all meals, then side by side would be awkward for eating.
If it is just for snacks or when eating alone, I'd keep the length.

[IMG]http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab267/Chrisk327/CKKitchen_0004.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab267/Chrisk327/CKKitchen_0002.jpg[/IMG]

Not for all meals, I just picture sitting there at breakfast or quick meals. Main meals are at the dining table. We are definately set on a penninsula or island with seating.

hopefully the pics work.

Since it's being opened to the dining room - I can see the need for having the peninsula to serve from when you have a larger gathering.

Do you have the room to remove it and put in a large island? My husband and I had a kitchen table and with the two of us we never used it. We sat side by side at the island.

If you could fit an island you could put your microwave on it then add a pretty hood over your range.Putting in a counter depth fridge would give alittle more room too.

The island really doesn't fit we tried but ultimately it is a small island if we maintain the appropriate clearnances, probably 4ft, so we nixed it.

we are planning a few changes from the posted layout that we decided since, we are going with a chimney style hood, moving the micro next to the fridge. We're also doing 36 inch cabs for uppers except 42 in the corner to the ceiling.

Do people find sitting at a pennsula problematic when its 2 people? or moreso, is it more desireable to have a seat on the end?

If I understand correctly, you want to put a stool on each side of the peninsula?? Won't one stool be in the way when coming around it to get to the stove? My kitchen is similar to yours and have stools on the dining area side of the peninsula. I can't imagine having stool on that opposite side. It would always be in my way. When more than 2 people are eating - we use the table. If just 2 - then we're side by side at the peninsula. It's really not a big deal to eat next to another, rather than across. Doesn't happen every meal.

Wow, this is almost my new kitchen and in the same orientation! I'm going to look forward to seeking how it progresses, chrisk327 May all go well for you :-) Thanks for photos.

I am currently using 3 old stools on the outside of peninsula, very lightweight. I drag one to the cutting board in the corner by the range along the peninsula and sit to talk to DH on the other side or eat casually, such as lunch or heated leftovers. I have a pullout cutting board/breadboard there which lowers my eating surface to a better height for me. I would not want to eat there very much; I prefer dining room. We have a table nook just outside the G of the kitchen but it's not functioning yet; maybe I will use it for casual meals. It's wonderful for reading, private space, etc. already.

I'm not sure if I'm being clear. there will be an overhang on one side of the penninsla about 15". What I was proposing was eliminating the 18" drawer bank and have someone sit on the end of the peninsla, facing the left wall/stove.

essentially sitting 90 degrees from the other 2-3 seats.

Hi, I'm not sure if this would work aesthetically or if you have enough space but have you thought about a curved peninsula?

If you put a seat on the end (facing away from the refrigerator wall/toward the range wall), you will need to be sure the opening b/w the end of the peninsula and the pantry to the right of the ref is at least 5' (60") to allow traffic to easily pass behind the person sitting there.

7'6" will allow you to seat 3 comfortably and probably 4 without too much discomfort.

Personally, and speaking from experience, I recommend keeping the seating on the DR side of the peninsula. You're only going to be using it for snacks or quick meals, so it should be fine. We have a similar arrangement...but we have a shallow "U" (Prep & Cooking Zones) and a line of cabinets/refrigerator/sink/ovens (our Cleanup Zone) opposite the base of the "U". Our seating is on the DR side of the peninsula (but only 2 since our peninsula is only approx 62" wide). This works very well for us b/c whenever there are 3 or more of us, we sit at the DR table for meals...and that's almost always at dinner. (It's usually all 4 of us except when my DH is on travel.) Once your family "expands", you will probably want to start having family meals where everyone sits down at the table for conversation and "bonding". This is our layout:

DR on the left, FR on the right (that corner area in the upper right corner is our corner pantry):

(yes, that 32" aisle b/w the refrigerator & peninsula is too narrow...but it fell victim to both our KD's measuring errors and an issue that forced us to build in the bottom wall 6" and, consequently, we lost 6 inches in kitchen width ("top to bottom" in the pic).)

BTW...you are correct in your assessment that an island w/seating will not fit in your kitchen if you have cabinets/appliances/fixtures on all 3 walls. If you had an island, I would assume no peninsula, so you'd have a "U" kitchen instead of a "G". You would need at least:

Island parallel to range & refrigerator walls in above pic:

• Space needed for island:
  .....25.5" run of cabs/appliances + 42" aisle + 40.5" island + 54" aisle (w/seating) + 30" refrigerator depth = 192" = 16'0"

  Even if you skimped on the aisle b/w the refrigerator & island and had only 4' (and that's really, really tight for seating), you would still need 15'6"

  (btw, 60" would be a better aisle width b/w the island & refrigerator, but 54" would probably be OK)

• Length/width of island:
  .....25.5" sink run + 42" aisle = 82.5" and assuming 12' "top to bottom dimension", that would leave you with a peninsula only 61.5" long...so only 2 seats.

Island parallel to the sink wall:

• Space needed for island:
  .....25.5" run of sink/cabs + 42" aisle + 40.5" island = 108" (9') so that leaves you with plenty of aisle space behind the seats.

• However, the length of your island can only be:
  .....25.5" sink run + 39" aisle b/w island & range wall + x" island width + 42"...

Overall, I like the layout.
The Cleanup Zone is, for the most part, separated from the Prep & Cooking Zones
The Prep & Cooking Zones are protected by the peninsula from casual traffic.
Going from the refrigerator to the Prep or Cooking Zone does not require you to walk through the main part of the Cleanup Zone.
The refrigerator is on the periphery so someone looking for a snack will not get in the way of those prepping or cooking. There is a possible issue w/the Cleanup Zone, but more on that later.

One comment about your move of the MW to next to the refrigerator. I'm assuming you're going to put it b/w the corner & the refrigerator...the problem is, you will not be able to use it while someone is cleaning up or loading/unloading the DW. While this probably isn't an issue now, once you have children, it can be.

This may also be an issue for refrigerator access when the DW is open...is there enough space for the DW to open w/o blocking the refrigerator? You'll need about 30" of space for the DW and refrigerator door to be open at the same time.

Do you need that pantry cabinet to the right of the refrigerator? If not, I recommend either: Moving the refrigerator down to give you more space b/w the corner & refrigerator. I don't know the exact dimensions of the cabs, but it might give you enough room for the DW to be open while someone is at the MW

or Putting the MW in the area where the pantry is...maybe in the middle of the pantry stack in an alcove and use the peninsula for landing space.

Question: Is there a reason the refrigerator wall ends "early" (i.e., it doesn't go as far down as the peninsula area). If that run were longer, you wouldn't have the DW/refrigerator/MW access issue.

You might consider a shallower (counter depth) refrigerator, and deeper cabinets above the refrigerator.

The pantry cabinet by the refrigerator can be deeper. Further, it can open to the long side that faces the dining room, rather than to the short side. That will make access easier.

Chris:

I have the exact layout in my kitchen that I re-did two years ago. My kitchen is just short of 12' on my sink wall. I also removed the wall between my kitchen and diningroom. I made the same decision you have made regarding not putting in an island. I would have liked one, but I just didn't think it would fit my space correctly.

I have my DW on the range side of the sink. I'm glad I did that, because when cleaning up, the refrig and DW doors would get in the way of each other. I rarely use my d/w when I am cooking at the range, but I do open the refrig and d/w doors when cleaning up and putting away leftovers.

I also have my small pantry on the end next to the refrigerator, but have it opening up on the side. I find this arrangement to have much more room than a pullout pantry that I was looking at. My pantry is 12" X 27".

In hindsight, I would have put a small prep sink in the corner between the peninsula and the range. When I am entertaining I setup the bar on the peninsula and wish I had a small sink there. Not a biggie, but if I had to do it over I would add it.

I also gave up some drawers on my peninsula and put in a 24" beverage refrig. LOVE IT!

It is just DH and I and we like to entertain. I can tell you that you will have PLENTY of space in those cabinets. Even though I pre-planned where everything would go in my new kitchen, one of my upper corner cabinets is empty. I may add some overflow pantry items in there.

My peninsula has two stools at it. I could have put three, but didn't want to crowd the area.

Sorry I gave you more information than you probably asked for, but I got so excited when I saw that you are re-doing your kitchen just like mine!

I look forward to seeing your progress. Good Luck!

Barb

We have a similar layout and like you, we did not have enough room for an island but we love our peninsula. When we bought this house 14 years ago it was just my dh and I so seating was not an issue. Fast forward to this summer and adding 3 kids, we knew we needed somewhere for the kids to sit, have a snack, or breakfast,and most importantly, do homework. So when we did our kitchen remodel we added a peninsula and three stools. We have all of them on the dining room side. I think having the person sitting on the end would feel out of place. Remember the stool would be pulled out and decrease the amount of room to pass by. I would keep the 18" cabinet and line all the seating on one side. The peninsula is such a pleasure. Now I can cook dinner and answer questions about Algebra at the same time. Boy was I tired of having to leave a pot on the stove to run in the other room to help a middle schooler! It is fabulous to have a place where they can just sit and talk to me. It also works when dh is using the laptop or guests want to sit while I prepare something. Best of luck to you. Kitchens are partially about food and mostly about people who frequent them :-)

Thanks for the feedback.
it does remind me of the other change in the plans I didn't note which is the DW is now on the left b/c we thought it would interfere with the fridge.

there are a few things you can't see on the plans posted that affect the layout. the back wall is 14 feet wide, the dining room is 12.5 feet wide. next to the pantry cabinet is a hallway about 39" wide with a closet and the basement door. It leaves plentry of room to get around, but that is the reason why we stopped short on that wall, its actually slightly less than 8'. Its also the reason why the pantry is only 15".

we'll consider changing the pantry to go the other way, it does make sense, why do a pullout when you can access everything by making it wide and shallow....

we're going to stick with the full depth fridge, the counter depth ones are cool, but we really do like the space of the full size, we have one now. before it is asked, we can't recess the fridge, would be nice, but doesn't work with whats on the other side. will increasing the depth of the upper cabinet make the wall seem very heavy?

we're putting the two corners at 42 inch cabinets and use trim to go to the ceiling(we have an 8'6" ceiling.) would popping up the fridge to the ceiling look good? or overdone?

This is a p.s. to my former message about having same layout. Sorry it's long.

I could have more than 1-3 peninsula sitters, but there's a large sink near end of peninsula and there is a tendency to avoid sitting in front of it, although it appears that people will do it--haven't had a large number of visitors yet. You are anticipating a peninsula without a sink. With a 15 inch overhang on the outside and on the end, there will be many places to sit, probably 5 or more. But I will say that putting a sitter or two on the end of the peninsula puts chairs into the walkpath and it removes the most logical place for a towel rack, which I regret not having because I have shallow shelves and a small wine holder on that end. You might want to shorten up the peninsula to allow for stool movement and hassle. Get some grid paper and draw out the plan and then move some bits of paper for the stool action.

We located a modest undercounter t.v/radio/CD player under the end of the left-hand wall over the peninsula. This orients snack sitters closer to the t.v.

We will use the peninsula for serving for informal large group meals in dining room. And the peninsula is a good launching/receiving space for formal meals, although we haven't really removed the entire wall between kitchen and dining room and will have a pocket door to close between the two rooms to camouflage the kitchen and its noises and smells during fine dining.

Our stools are simple old backless ones, which reside under the overhang all the time. If we get taller, more substantial ones, the buffet line situation may become problematic, but at least we would have space elsewhere to stash 4 substantial stools during a buffet meal.

_____Butting in on non-sitter issues...
Your plan has a great many cupboards. Removing the uppers by the sink would add airiness, if you don't really need them. You won't miss a set of 18 inch lowers on the peninsula if it gains you what you want. And it will cut cost a bit. (This kitchen is an expensive one from the point of view of length of countertops and number of cupboards. Trust me. )

If you don't remove some uppers, you still might want upper variation so it isn't closed-in or feeling like a cabinet catalog. Consider some open or glass-front cupboards to bring some syncopation into the uppers.

Our original drawings had an over range microwave but we realized it would be a collision point for 2+ users; they have to go all the way into the deepest point in the kitchen where a range user may already be standing. We ended up putting MW on the counter in the right-hand corner. If it were smaller, we could have built it into the center of the wall over our "sandwich station" next to refrig. Putting it on the wall closest to the opening of the G allows users to come and go without disturbing cooks or cleanup people and shortens the walk.

One good thing about your idea of seating at end of peninsula is that sitter does not look at...

bump

OK...now that you've moved the DW, it will now open into the Prep Zone. Additionally, you have now moved the Cleanup Zone into the middle of the Prep Zone...so you no longer have the the separation of the Prep & Cooking Zones from the Cleanup Zone. You will now also have to go around the DW to get to/from the sink & range. This will cause zone-crossing now whenever you need to use the sink.

The only way this will work is if you always empty the DW b/f starting a meal AND no one is trying to put something in the DW (i.e., no one is trying to put dishes away or trying to put anything in the DW while someone else is prepping and/or cooking) OR no one ever needs something that's in the DW (so you don't have someone trying to get something out while someone else is trying to prep/cook).

While this may be true now...I can almost guarantee you that once you have children and they start using the kitchen to help or just use it in general, that will change...unless there's a stay-at-home parent that does it all and no one else helps out (prepping, cooking, cleaning up). I know some don't understand this, but that location would be a huge issue for me and my family. I wonder if those that don't understand it have children or if they do, do both parents work full-time outside the home?

Remember, too, that your children will need to be "trained" as they grow up to know how to help around the house...including how to prep, cook, and cleanup. Don't create a layout that makes it a frustrating experience...for any of you!

OK, it will also work if you put in a prep sink in the peninsula...maybe a corner? [Even Bbtondo, who has the exact same layout, states: "...In hindsight, I would have put a small prep sink in the corner between the peninsula and the range...."] If you put in a prep sink, then the Prep Zone moves to the other side of the range and the closest water source for the Cooking Zone is the prep sink. You will then again have the Prep & Cooking Zones separated from the Cleanup Zone and will no longer have a DW smack dab in the middle of your Prep & Cooking Zones. Oh, and no more zone-crossing either.

If you add a prep sink and thereby move the Prep Zone to the left of the range, I would consider moving the range toward the sink wall another 12 to 18 inches. An open DW door only sticks out past the cabinets 27", so as long as you have at least 27" b/w the corner and range, you'll be OK.

Regardless of where the DW ends up, be sure the Trash/Recycle Pullout (if you have one) is either in the Prep Zone or b/w the Prep & Cleanup Zones. You generate far more trash & recyclables during prepping and cooking than you do during cleanup. Additionally, you need to use the trash/recycle bins for a longer period of time. (Studies show that 70% of the time spent in a kitchen is spent prepping, 10% is spent cooking, and 20% is spent cleaning up...so that means 80% of your time and effort in the kitchen is prepping &...

In my layout, the range is closer to the sink and I have my pots and pans drawer on the peninsula side of the range, as Buehl describes. I am happy with that location.

I have a regular depth refrig and pulled the upper cabinet forward with end panels to give it a more built in look. I'm happy I did that.

You can tell I don't have any little ones in the house. I would have liked a small sink in my peninsula corner for my "bar" area at parties. LOL

Even though I rarely use my d/w when prepping and cooking, and I do use it a lot when cleaning up, I think you should strongly consider Buehl's advice regarding the d/w placement. I realize that my lifestyle is probably different than those with a family.

There are so many things to consider when designing a kitchen. When I was doing mine, GW helped me SO much. Looking forward to seeing your kitchen move forward.

By the way, what kind of finishes are you thinking of for your cabinets, etc.?

Barb

will consider moving the DW back to the other side.

we're considering a medium cherry with a glaze in a raised panel door or possibly a maple. We're trying to narrow down where we're getting our kitchen from which will determine what is available.

not sure about recessing the fridge, we will have a plumbing chase in the wall, not exactly sure where. I dunno why, but I'm not a big fan of surrounds on the fridges. we do have the pantry cabinet on the "exposed" side which takes care of some of it.

BTW...one of the reasons I was suggested moving the refrigerator down, is that right now it does create something of a "black hole" in the corner.

It may not bother you, but it does bother some people, so I thought I'd mention it. If you need the pantry cabinet, at least it's not as deep as the refrigerator and putting it on the other side might reduce the "black hole" effect a little. Ideally, though, either not having the pantry cab or extending the wall would open the corner up better.

understood, we're not happy with the black hole, but from a pantry perspective, i think it works better on the outside. we may persue the recessing of the fridge, or building out the counter there brining the cabinets forwaard. Ultimately, we are going put the not so insignificantly sized micro on the counter next to the fridge to give it some purpose.