Do you have a pic of the layout?

Sorry, here it is. Kinda new to this

{{!gwi}}

Here is a link that might be useful: {{!gwi}}

Two more questions... (at least for now)... do you plan dish storage on the open shelves? Where do you eat/any overhang seating? What are your clearances island to island and island to cook/clean area? OK...that was more then 2 questions!

First, I don't think the plan is bad or anything, but I'm picky tho, so take all this with a lot of salt.

Ok, well, first things first and all. Hope you like walking or are a very organized person. Things that are used together might be better off clumped together. Food storage is kinda scattered - you might find yourself walking from one end to the other several times while you're making the pear almond tart I'm dreaming of. Dish storage (if that's part of the credenza or island) may be scattered too.

Small concern for the cleanup area directly visible to the dining area. I tend to have a big crest at service time and leave a veritable flotsam of pots and prep dishes in my wake at the cleanup area while we eat for everyday meals. Small concern that both the ref and frz doors block other doors when open. Small concern that the western island doesn't have enough clearance behind it for comfortable passage when diners are seated - it looks like 42-48". Seated diners stick out about two feet and I'd rather have 3 feet open behind them if I could. Small concern for the open shelves right over the dw, they'll be a bit hard to reach when the dw is open. Minor concern that the micro is proposed very, berry far from the ref, but then we are reheaters and not mw cookers. Minor concern that dining in a row like that isn't very convivial.

Larger concern about entertaining - if you do that. Will the kitchen double as a bar, as a catering station or a buffet? How will that be arranged? Where will the coffee be? Formal/informal service? If informal, what would be guest flow with them stools there?

For your questions, if you bake or broil or roast a lot, ovens around waist/chest height would be great. There isn't anything else much that matters about choosing between seperate ovens or range for me.

Two medium versus one large island, you have a 3'6" island, a 3 foot aisle and a 30"ish wide island. The 30-something seems too small to use comfortably (particularly when you have a lot more space). As above, I would rather have a bit more clear passageway at the arches if I could get it - moving the island with the overhang east towards the other island so the back of a seated diner was at the beam line. I would probably choose one large.

So none of this much matters if this design fits the way YOU COOK. If you want advice, I'd suggest spending time with bubble diagrams - where the bubbles are called dry food storage, spices, cold food, cooking vessels, baking pans, oven, knives, cooking tools, etc. and stack them and push them around until it feels like its organized to help the way you cook. And then come back to the plan and figure out how to place the stuff to emulate the relationships in the bubbles.

bmorepanic,

thank you for the very nice and detailed response. this is why i love this forum. i have yet to get this kind of feedback from my architecht or kd! I do think we will go with on large island, possibly multilevel.

Bmore raises good points. Make sure you know where everything would go and you do mental walk-thoroughs of how you would cook and clean in a typical day as well as an evening of entertaining or holiday meal or any special kitchen projects your family is likely to be involved in (for us it was baking and canning as well as holiday meals). Keep in mind that what seems easy enough to do once, may become something that drives you crazy when repeated a dozen or more times a day, with other people in the kitchen or when in a super rush to get a meal on the table.

If you want wall ovens, you have plenty of room for them. Your kitchen is significantly larger than mine (mine is near 14x14) and I have them. I wouldn't have it any other way. I am tall, I do enjoy baking, my son's are tall and bake. Range ovens look great, but they are too low for us. If you have the room (and you do), I think how they work for you is the more important consideration.

As for the fridge/freezer, without the drawing, I would have said fridge by the sink. With the drawing, I see you have a prep sink and food storage at the far end, so I would put the firsge there -- but, that removes it from convenience to the dining room.

Your larger sink doesn't have a lot of landing space around it for stacking or drying. I would want at least 2-3 feet on either side. That shorter wall looks like a natural place for a coffee/beverage/snack hutch to serve.

Do you have a planned use for the credenza wall? I would be concerned that the closed end space on the far wall of a kitchen could be either a clutter catcher or an under used spot. My feeling is that kitchen space is too valuable to have any of it not working for you.

Notice that the range is not centered between those windows as drawn. Take care of details like that while still in the drawing stage so you don't have any surprises when the cabinets go in.

Just my initial impressions. You are lucky to have a nice, big space to work with.

Thanks lascatx, more good points. I brought your point about landing space next to the sink with my wife and she agrees. Maybe we will move the sink to the island or make more room around it.

Would you go with dual islands or one massive island to prep and serve?

Am I not seeing something right? I thought the main sink did have 2-3 ft on each side. My biggest concern about that area is there isn't enough dish storage near the dishwasher...and I wonder if in a kitchen this size if you'll want 2 dishwashers.

What I'm wondering about is the placement of the veggie sink. Do you intend to use it from the end of the island? If so, there is not room on either side to set things and/or work. The biggest thing is that it's so far from the fridge where veggies would be stored. Do you plan to use it just for raw things, like salad, or to prep the veggies for cooking? If it's the latter, the natural placing is in a path between the fridge and stove.

I actually like the 2 islands. The kitchen one for good work space from 2 sides, and the other for seating and serving and storing things like serving dishes, etc. I could definitely use both, but make sure you will, or it'll be just more to wipe down and, like Lascatx said, collect stuff.

I also agree with all Lascatx said about wall ovens. You gain great pots and pans storage under a cooktop or rangetop and the height is better even for those of us who aren't at all tall (just under 5'4"). I like seeing into the oven from across the room to keep a convenient eye on things.

Thanks rhome410.

You are seeing it right. There should be at least 3 feet on each side of the main kitchen sink which should be enough.

I think the "veggie" sink would be mainly to have an extra little sink so that people (mainly the kids) would have a place to get some tap water and maybe wash their hands.
I think our concern would be that it would be too close to the working area of the kitchen that it would get crowded in that space.

It is a tough decision for us b/w one and two islands. We plan on eating most meals in the kitchen on the island. One massive island would be appealing in the sense that it essentially would be a big dining table and people can gather around for the meal. I don't like the idea of sitting in a line eating where it is tough to make eye contact with your fellow diners.

Finally, I think we will go with a rangetop and double ovens even though the "look" of a range (esp a 48" Wolf) is very nice.

Thanks for your help again

Keep it coming :)

Have you thought about trading the 2nd island for a kitchen table, much like mamadadapaige's? I don't know how you'd 'gather around' an island and why a big one would be different than a narrower one as far as eating in a line, unless some were standing or you did something to make seating possible on more than one side.

I also don't see that the 2nd sink is that handy for the purposes you list unless there is something about the traffic pattern and room arrangement around the kitchen that makes it work. What sink do you plan do you plan to use for cooking prep? The secondary sink isn't located conveniently, and I wouldn't want to use the cleanup sink for prep...It would mix its purposes (prepping over dirty dishes is a pain and a shame when there are 2 sinks), and it's not a good location for that either. In this plan, I think I'd let the kids use the cleanup sink for hands and put the prep sink handy to kitchen tasks.

For me there would need to be some reshuffling to make work paths work efficiently, and like Lascatx said, make good use of the whole room.

How do you get to mamadadapaige's kitchen? Sorry, kinda new to this. You make good points again. Makes more send to have the veg sink where it will be used better

Oops! Sorry, I meant to post a link to a thread showing mamadadapaige's kitchen! See below.

Here is a link that might be useful: mamadadapaige's kitchen - see table in use about 2/3 down

Hola,
2 points to share:

1. Check with Subzero to see if their fridges/freezers have interchangeable door handles (opens either left or right). I'm sure they do. Mine aren't SZ; the door handles do not switch, so that dictated where I put them.

2. Another support for rangetop (even though the 48" Wolf ranges are awfully puuuuuurty!!!): I can't stand having a hot oven venting out (especially in the summer) while I'm trying to cook on the stovetop.

Amanda

mamadadapaige's kitchen is beautiful. I think 10 feet is a good size for dining space - which is what they used. Add 2 feet for a passageway on one side and we have exactly 7 feet left for a wall of base cabinets and an aisle and an island. Rats!
just doodles
{{!gwi}}

bmorepanic,

thanks for the idea! i really like it. will run it by the most important person.