rookie: Maybe they hang out there so they can take out all the annoyance they feel at their customer/homeowners, but can't express to paying customers? Only partially kidding...I mean, we homeowners vent here about our contractors, right?

Idrive - saying "people who struggle living in an imperfect world..." is not really answering my question nor helping anyone out with the same or similiar issue I had with my hardwood floors.
And I will leave it at that.

The home decorating forum is also a nice place.

I. also, see nothing wrong with the responses you received on the Flooring forum.

Anne

I was surprised to read you had a bad experience on the Flooring Forum. I haven't been on there for several years, but I remember I had wonderful help from some experts there a few years ago when I had questions about refinishing a wood floor. I guessed the tone of that Forum must have changed. But I just read your thread there. I think you will probably call me nasty too, but I read the thread twice, and didn't see what you are talking about. The responders on your thread were quite informative, including someone who took the trouble to post photos. I think you were overly sensitive to someone who was saying analogous to what people say on this forum in response to questions about marble countertops - that a wood floor can show minor scratches, and imperfections are part of owning a wood floor. S/he even said "I don't want to sound harsh" and "sorry". I thought s/he was trying to make you feel OK and to calm down about living with scratches or otherwise "you'll drive yourself nuts". When I read the thread, I felt your reaction was unfair. So, maybe s/he was right - you are making yourself upset over your floors, which is not necessary. Sorry, just MHO.

I haven't posted a question on any other forums, but I did notice a lot less, shall I say, tact or diplomacy at times. In fact, the other night I was looking at the appliance forum and thought, wow, people are being a little snarky here! Is it a full moon? (remembering a thread going on here on kitchen forums a few weeks ago)

I was not talking about all of the responders.....I was talking about one person who said some things I thought was not nice - saying that "people who struggle living in an imperfect world"......not especially helpful. I mentioned that obviously I know that HW floors can get scratched, but having new floors for only a few weeks should warrant a person being a little sensitive to new scratches.

And I guess I didn't appreciate the SARCASM with "if you figure out a way to get them out with some type of refinish, do it, patent it, and you will have enough money to replace your floors every other day. Good Luck.".....not quite sure this comment was so informative or making me feel OK or calming me down about living with scratches as you feel.

My point was to say that the kitchen forum seems to be more friendly, helpful, and nice in their responses to people, even those that may not know as much as the so called experts!!

There are some forums where mostly women post.

There are some forums where mostly men post.

Each group has it's own vibe.

Neither is better or worse.

Just different.

The Appliance Forum can get a little snarky. I have seen some serious scratching and hissing over there.

So I just lurk. ;^)

I just read your thread on the Flooring Forum. Then I re-read your OP here, including the Subject Title ("WOW..."). While I didn't count, it looks like you had 10 or so people respond on the Flooring Forum with helpful advice, and one who in your opinion was sarcastic and not helpful. But you started a complaint thread here about the entire Flooring Forum. You omitted mention of the helpful responders on your thread until others here remarked on them. "This kitchen forum has so many nice, helpful, nice, thoughtful, nice, insightful people." - didn't you think the people who responded to your question on the Flooring Forum had any of those qualities?

Did the entire Flooring Forum or the responders on your thread there merit the "WOW - other forums personalities" title you have given them? And, evidently the entire rest of the Gardenweb are people to avoid ("I don't think I will be visiting any of the other sites..."). From just ONE post whose tone you didn't like? Don't you think that is generalizing, and undeserved?

I understand the point many of you have been making here, but please understand that we're talking about emotions, not measured responses. The OP posted because she's used to the warm and cuddly space we've created here and had a personal, emotional reaction to finding a poster or two who chose to be unpleasant. It's just words, and one can scroll on by, but sometimes one just feels slapped in the face.

I had joined another GW forum awhile back which was fun at first, but then I found that a core group of long time members were having an ongoing feud which poisoned everything. There would be a perfectly entertaining general discussion, then the lines would be drawn and the barbs would fly. These people don't flame. They don't say anything that a moderator could object to, but they make the forum feel tense as they ever so gently snipe at each other. I was having fun, however, and tried to ignore it, until a few subtle barbs got hurled at me. Mean, subtle barbs. Put downs. Looked at outside of the emotional stew, they could have been totally not meant to be mean, or even barbs, but in the heightened emotional atmosphere of the feuding they felt like arrows to the heart.

In the case of having a big expensive remodelling problem, one brings plenty of one's own emotional stew to the world. I'm sure the Kitchens Forum had lulled the OP into thinking all of GW was a safe place, so being the recipient of a couple of zingers probably felt a lot worse than they look objectively to people who look back on them later.

Allnew, I offer you (((((HUGS))))). I think that's what you really needed, rather than to be set straight about your reaction.

I can't possibly say what Pillog said more elegantly, so I will just say DITTO and more (((((((HUGS))))))) to you AllNEW!! I do agree.. KItchens is most certainly the warmest GW forum I have been on!!

Thank you so much Plllog and gillylily!!! You were right on target....I'm so used to the warm fuzzy feeling of this Kitchen forum and did not feel that way with Flooring...and I should have prefaced it by not saying it was just my own flooring post that made me feel this way. I had been on the flooring post many times before and I just felt that the responses overall were not as "nice and helpful" as members on this kitchen forum.....so thank you to both of you for your virtual hugs :-)
I have asked a bunch of questions before here and have answered quite a few too (with my opinion) but I have always tried to be sensitive to the members questions or comments, knowing that written word can be read differently than the spoken word.
Shannonplus - I wasn't saying anything new that hasn't been said before on this kitchen forum - that the personalities on the other forums are not as generous or helpful as the people on this forum. And yes, I did mean to say Wow...b/c that is how I felt when I read the posts back saying to me that "people struggle living in an imperfect world.... " I did not think that was a helpful or nice comment, quite the opposite!

Thank you once again to the virtual hugs and for those that understood what I meant...

"Don't go to the electrical forum. They don't like people who don't know as much as they do. "

Since mistakes can be a little traumatic (kill yourself, burn down a house, etc.) a little extra care is required.

The same thing happens on the plumbing forum when folks ask about doing gas work and do not have a clue.

Electrical is not a very forgiving or simple thing all the time.

ITA with deeageaux, the female/male composition of a forum matters a lot, and the KF is mainly female, which accounts for the "poor baby" stuff and cyber-hugs. Although I am female, I am neither a cyber hugger nor a "poor babyer" and I stay away from those kind of threads. But, that's just me, and it's clear that the majority of the posters on this forum dearly love to cyber hug and poor baby each other, which is cool, and I can live with it or not read, and I choose to live with it.

Everyone reads or posts for different reasons, and we all have to respect that. I do not read or post on this, or any, forum to make friends, get support or air my grievances with my contractor or mr. sandyponder, I read to learn and post to show what I've done. But there are lots of people who post to get support, for example, and that doesn't make either of us right or wrong, just shows our different interests and reasons for posting.

sandyponder

The Kitchen Table and the Quilting Forum are full of really nice folks. Hot Topics is another story.

Some of the responses were not very nice, nasty to say the least!!!!

So how about ... oh nevermind.

Allnewappliances...

You posted your (flooring )situation on Kitchens because
you knew there are kind people here. Sometimes when I
tread out to another forum it is not always so warm and
welcoming. I am glad you posted your situation.
There are many lurkers fearful to post for fears of
retribution, unwelcoming comments back, misunderstood
humor.. Your post can help all of us to see ways we
can be more welcoming and helpful to each other.

After reading the flooring thread, I got the same take you
did. Maybe the person was trying to be funny but for me
humor does not always get translated well through text. It
is such a hard thing to do but each time I post I try to
read my response as though I am a stranger. This way if
I make a joke or curt reply I can try to empathize with
the person reading it. This is tough to do in our fast
paced texting world. I can only ever joke about myself on
the forum via text otherwise it comes across as rude,
insensitive or yes dare I say it even snarky.

My kitchen is done, but I keep coming back to all the
wonderfully nice people in kitchens. People are sweet,
helpful, funny, yes snarky too, but we try to comfort
each other in our challenging renovations. Stay with us
in Kitchens we adore you. And if you have to tread to
another place, come on back to the warm fuzzy folks here.

~boxerpups

I went over to the flooring forum to read the posts and all the information give to you was frank and helpful. The only rudeness I saw was started by you.

I went over to the flooring forum to read the posts and all the information give to you was frank and helpful. The only rudeness I saw was started by you.

Thanks boxerpups....I agree, he maybe meant to be funny, but it did not come across in text.

I just finished my kitchen a few weeks ago (haven't had a chance to post pics yet) but I do still keep coming back to this forum b/c
1. I still have backsplash to do and am totally dreading it...
2. Kitchen forum can be quite funny and amusing with everyone
3. People are nice here and if I can help someone else like I was helped for months and months and months, I'd like to repay it back to someone new.

Thanks all.....

Interesting. I thought most of the responses to your legitimate question were infantile. Only two people or so had any suggestions to offer.

Lots of people feel threatened when asked questions they don't know the answer to, and like to attack the questioner. The rest of us are over 12 years old.

Interestingly, I've had more contractors traipsing over my newly refinished hardwood than were ever supposed to be here at this stage. No scratches yet. Seems like a couple of flooring know-it-alls might have just been unmasked a little.

I always try to remember that occasionally tone doesn't translate. Constructive criticism especially can come across as mean.

Sometimes we get good advice; sometimes we get bad advice. At least there's a place where we can ask and receive an answer. How cool is that?

That said, I agree: the kitchen forum rocks.

I have to comment just one more time....
Sandyponder, I guess kitchens can be deceiving! I'm a big fan of yours but would have guessed you a cyber hugger, poor baby-er based on the warmth and fun, eclectic feel. I'm not implying that you're not warm and fun because you're not a cyber hugger! I'm not one either. I think it would be kind of interesting to start a thread where we post pics and ask, "What does my kitchen say about me?"

And one more thing...
Marcolo, your posts ALWAYS crack me up. Infantile! Love it.

[Hanging head and rubbing toe] Boxerpups outed me. I AM fuzzy. I suppose I should put aside the computer and go shave my legs...

TMI!!!

Plllog, your wit is so sharp! I love reading what you've got to say!

Like Rookie, I pre-pegged Sallyponder as a cyber hugger by the eclectic warm style of her kitchen. That is an interesting thought you have, by the way, Rookie, regarding personalities and kitchens and what they say about us.

Boxerpups, as always, has awesome words of wisdom.

Marcolo is a hoot!

allnewappliances, I have found different flavors of replies depending on the forum as well. Some of them have some very funny male bantering that I get a real kick out of. Others can be a little harsh, however, I think that is because I am relating it to this kitchen forum, which is one of the nicest places I have ever come across in cyberspace. It's kind of like starting out swimming in a very nice pool with those floaty noodles and then getting into another lake forum and having something come up from the depths and bite your toes. It's an unexpected and entirely new experience and therefore perceived as highly unpleasant. (Plus the water is a lot chillier!)

This prompts me to share one of my favorite movie quotes from "Round Midnight" when the great jazz musician, Dale Turner says, "You know, Lady Francis, there is not enough kindness in the world."

I think a lot of forums could save time with a pull-down menu, so you could just click on the response you'd otherwise give anyway.

For instance:

KITCHENS
Please select one
A) I feel terrible for you. I'm sobbing uncontrollably and need a Kleenex. I have no idea what to do, but (((((hugs)))). Maybe I peed a little.
B) Your kitchen/backsplash/floor/dust mop is breathtaking! So pretty! Stunning!
C) My contractor stole my money/burned down my house/sold my three daughters into slavery. Should I get a lawyer? I hate confrontation. I'd like to give him another chance.
D) You homeowners are dumb idiots. It's all your fault. Give us money.

APPLIANCES
Please select one
A) My Bluestar oven won' turn on/turn off/stop exploding/close/open
B) I love/hate/don't trust/completely trust Trevor
C) I'm thinking of getting a commercial microwave because it costs $86,000, and I want you to know that
D) If you don't like open burners you should get what you want/admit you're a hack in the kitchen/off yourself from a bridge

LAUNDRY
Please select one.
A) My front loader smells
B) The proper temperature for whites is 56 celsius/73 celsius/ 86 celsius/who the eff puts a thermometer in their underwear??
C) Look! I found a laundry detergent that's five times as expensive/more difficult to use/doesn't work at all/violates EPA standads!
D) My front loader still smells
E) Miele sucks/rocks/is a ripoff/is the only machine that works
F) SQ lasts forever, baby
G) Wow, the front loader is really starting to stink now

FLOORING
Please select one
A) You're an idiot.
B) You're an idiot.
C) You're an idiot.
D) Look, my house looks like animals live here and I'm proud! You're an idiot.
E) I don't know the answer to that. You're an idiot.

marcolo,

BRAVO!!!!! spot on, really. love it and there should definitely be a pull down menu!

ROTFLMAO!!

Thanks!

Now THAT is funny.

KA:)

Marcolo,
You are priceless!
~boxerpups
(An idiot)

Marcolo, thanks for the laugh. That's right up there with plllog's "shoes in the house" post and they need to go into a "Classics" folder.

ROTFL!! Marcolo, you win!

marcolo,
We're at the framing stage, and I just this summer started wandering out of Building a Home and into Kitchens and Appliances, as well as Flooring. You completely hit the nail on the head, although Flooring was quite kind to me (revived a 2 yr old thread...hey, at least I didn't repost!). That part about Trevor was all too true, as I had no idea who everyone was referring to until I read a few pages back.

You forgot Building a Home, though. Would LOVE to hear what you have for that one!

BAH forum (admittedly from a couple of years ago):

From the architects and designers:

Well, that's what you get with a *stock plan* (said derisively).

Why don't you pay for an architect?

Don't listen to that other forum architect!

From the homeowners:

What is the per SF price to build a house?

Do I want a screened porch/Hardi plank siding/colored windows/ceiling fan in every room/geothermal heat/ICF construction?

But we chose the siding color *and* the faux stone color, so that makes my stock plan house a custom house (said defensively).

Do you think xxxx sf is enough for x people?

Who could ever live without multi-shower heads/a built in towel warmer/2 bathrooms for each person/an electric fur polisher, etc., etc.

Who could ever live *with* a jack and jill bath/no dedicated laundry room/pocket doors/vinyl siding/vinyl windows/Formica counters/hallways to nowhere?

What kind of stone did you use and what kind should I use?

WAH!! My contractor screwed up or screwed me on xxx.

From the builders:

Well, that's what you get with an architect/stock plan/for not securing your site/for building a house at all.

sandyponder (the evidently surprisingly non cyber hugger)

One common thread in a lot of the other forums is the way they berate anyone who asks for any pricing help. Because you shouldn't ask how much something costs unless you already know.

Victim: "Hi, new here, thinking of putting on a one-story addition for a family room, two windows, vinyl siding, over a crawlspace, about 12 x 15 feet. We plan to call some contractors but want to know roughly what these things cost"

Reply 1: "What a stupid question. How much does a rock way? How long is a rope?"

Reply 2: "What a stupid question. We would need to know your incomprehensiblejargonwordforsomething1, and your incomprehensiblejargonwordforsomething2, as well as your flashytechnicalwordIjustmadeupbutyoudon'tknow before I could even BEGIN to guess."

Reply 3: "What a stupid question. Please provide your architectural renderings, a complete materials list, and recent bids from 136 contractors within a one-mile radius."

Reply 4: "What a stupid question. Homeowners are idiots. Give us money."

Reply 127: "Um, I did one like this a few years ago. It looks like this, and cost that. HTH."

Reply 128." What a stupid reply."

Marcolo - now I NEED to know who Trevor is??? LOL

and this can't go into a "Classic's folder" b/c if it does, then 3 years from now someone will ready my original post, go to Flooring and come back and tell me how wrong I was, that I was being too sensitive, that this site is for information and not cyber hugs, etc.....oh and that I was the one being rude! :-)

Are we all innocent here?
I have a confession to make.....
I made a comment over on Building A Home a few months ago I think....
It was about 2 sentences long and I thought I was being funny and clever. I re-read it after I submitted and realized that it came off as snarky at best and dismissive, insensitive and ridiculing at worst.

The confession is that I still think it was kind of funny. It should be too old to search for now :)

Allnewappliances, I don't know who Trevor is either and to expand on your last comment, there are some folks around who have an over-inflated confidence in their sense of what is right and wrong, good and evil here on the GW forums. Of course, slinging hurtful insults around like "not very nice" about certain personalities on the flooring forum is evil.

rookie - just so I understand, am I the evil one now? LOL

Well, you did have the nerve to hurl around the phrase "not very nice", that totally qualifies. lol.

Now, before I have to bathe kids and pack lunches, who the hell is Trevor?

hmmm Rookie - did you read the comments made to me in flooring...how about the one about me living in an imperfect world....or how about the sarcasm to me about "figuring out a way to get scratches out with out some type of refinish, do it, patent it, and you will have enough money to replace your floors every other day"....just b/c I asked an innocent question about my new 2 week old HW floors and the scratches my son (or husband) made on them.....in my world, that qualifies as not very nice.

Trevor is from Eurostoves in Beverly, MA, and is the driving force behind the marketing of the new Capital Culinarian range. He has been a resource to the Appliance Forum since before I joined several years ago, and is known to be helpful in general. Now, he's the man with the plan about the as yet (or at least at last I looked) not on the market range. He's managed with his previews to whip up quite a lot of demand for it and conversation about it. (And it does seem like a pretty cool range if you're into that kind of thing.) That has made him during this period into a guru rather than just a resource, but he has forum cred from days of yore. Though when people make a poor purchase decision and then ask him to fix it (for free) he can get just a bit testy. Just a bit. :)

Rookie, I've been known to snark occasionally too, and will be purposefully blunt when I'm trying to get someone's attention. Sometimes an apology is in order. Sometimes, least said soonest mended. None of us is perfect. :)

I never used to be a cyberhugger. We're all under so much stress here, however, that sometimes a big hug and a sympathetic ear really is what's called for. I also never used to bandwagon with the compliments about new kitchens, and would only post when I had something unique to say. Then I learned that the culture here is to all say something nice because lack of responses goes by as lack of interest or disapproval. So then I tried to say something about every new kitchen. But then I started missing a lot of them because I really wasn't on much (I type fast and am opinionated (to which I expect eyerolls and people muttering, "Ya think??") so it can seem I'm here even when I've only seen a couple of threads. So then I stopped. But then I have time off and see all the new kitchens and want to say something even if it's just "pretty". But I don't have that much time off.... So, to anyone who wants attention from me, if I missed you send me an e-mail! And if I say something about someone else's plan/kitchen/dilemma and not about yours, don't be hurt! It's not you. (((((HUGS))))) I've become a cyberhugger.

You people are all priceless. PRICELESS I say! I am literally cracking up here. marcolo you especially are wonderfully witty. Bravo!

Allnewappliances,

I have to say I agree with you, you asked a normal question on a flooring forum and some of the reactions were over the top. Like the one to go give your loved ones a hug. What?

These type of forums are here to help people with their homes, many of the topics people post here are how to choose things, fix things. Many of these things are not a big issue compared to real life issues as the poster was trying to say but it's a flooring forum, people will ask how to fix their floors. If that poster is burnt out from dealing with "clowns" as he/she posted then maybe they need to move on from the threads with people asking for help. Several others were able to give the OP responses that were helpful.

Big hug from me too!

"They'll bicker about it amongst themselves, but be pretty nice to the wide eyed and idiotic. :)"

If I ever get desperate enough to go back, I'll sign my post pllog. The are NOT nice. And making snide remarks is rude and more rude in public.

"Since mistakes can be a little traumatic (kill yourself, burn down a house, etc.) a little extra care is required. "

Lusting after an induction range, I inquired about the electrical hook up for it. what it required from the breaker box. Since I already had an electric stove all I wanted to know was whether I would need a loan just for the new hook up or if it could be fit into the remodeling budget fairly easily. If I were an expert on induction ranges and their requirements I wouldn't have had to ask any questions. This was a year ago when there were many discussions on the appliance forum and induction was fairly uncommon. Little did I know it was such a simple thing but I was beat up and left for dead at the electrical forum. I will never go there unless I sign myself pllog.

"What does my kitchen say about me?"
I don't want to know and I don't want you to know either! I will say my kitchen is not granite, island and pendant lights. So that should tell you everything right there.

I mostly come here and if it isn't 100% kitchen, I try to lead up to it and then wham! sneak it in my post. I had fun in appliances when I was there but seldom need to go there these days. I "see" some of you when I venture out of my comfort zone. If I had more time......and a nickel for every time I've said that.....I'd be in the quilting forum and baking and pets and old houses and remodeling and gardening and EVERYTHING!

Marco! Keep it coming!

Allnewappliances,
I HONESTLY (and that is heartfelt, not yelling) think that those comments were made in a lighthearted manner. I think over on Flooring, they must hear that question of how to get scratches out of something that WILL scratch a billion times. It was your first time asking the question, but it was a jumping off point to express the basic idea that floors will scratch. Dents will happen...life will happen. Like the first scratch on a new car, you have to get over it. I think the point of "people living in an imperfect world" was not meant to say you are stupid and expecting the impossible, but rather to reiterate the fact that in this world these days, we do expect a bit of perfection and irrational instant gratification. It might not have been appropriate to use your simple question as a soapbox, but it was actually right on the money. A child playing on a hardwood floor, a dog walking on a hardwood floor, a chair pulled on a hardwood floor... WILL scratch it. That's the nature of the product. I tell people that every day when I sell them hardwood and they ask "will it scratch?" I tell them yes, it will, but some woods/species/colors will show it more than others. The beauty is still worth it.

There was a comedian who said "People today expect everything to be perfect... if our cell phone takes a second longer to connect, we say 'Come on, you stupid thing'... Hey, IT'S GOING TO SPACE AND BACK, People! Give it a second!!" I think of that every time I want to "fix" something that just is. My dents on my month old refrigerator remind me every day... things get broken, sometimes too easily. Par for the course of living. Taking those comments in the spirit of "life is too short, get over it for the sake of your sanity" would be a good recommendation.

And it is true, based on the number of people who want to fix every little scratch... if you DO figure out something, do patent it... you would be rich. That, too, is just another way of saying there really isn't a perfect product to purchase that will fix that most basic of hardwood complaints. I thought it was kind of clever, but if you were already on the defensive (which I have been there, too, and I understand... ), it can be read differently.

I've seen just as many "tones" and "irritating posts" on the Kitchen Forum... but for the most part, people kiss and make up easier here. ;)

I just can't leave this thread alone.......sorry. I don't think I've stated clearly that I do think Allnewappliances was treated very rudely with the exception of the few helpful responses. It was a perfectly acceptable issue and question.

I've come up with some ridiculous "emergencies" around here and have only received kind advice, for example, last week, I burned food on the SS pan my MIL gave me as a gift and I wanted to restore it before she showed up and saw it. Then there was a time I didn't think I could live with my electrical outlet placement, lol!
Pinch_me, I saw a really cool photo documentary of the insides of people's refrigerators. At the end, there was a little bio info about each frig owner. It was VERY surprising. What I guessed to be frat boy's frig was really a single female executive that liked her beer. It's the whole reason I didn't dare touch that thread about the Tupperware drawer photos! I just couldn't expose myself like that on a public forum :)

Marcolo, that was 'pee my pants' funny!!!!!! THAT is a keeper!! I used to post on another forum about certain parenting issues, and we had a similar kind of list for those very different issues... it's the nature of "forums"! What a hoot!!!

ok so many responses.... :-)
Thank you to Plllog for explaining who Trevor was....b/c if not, I'm sure tonight when I was bored b/c my husband was watching sports on TV, I would have spent so much time searching the appliance forum and wondering who the hell Trevor was LOL

Thank you to Annettacm for your response...I think if the original response on Flooring sounded like yours - even using the same response - I would not have taken it like I did. And I'm sure my original question was probably such a basic question to ask experts, but I really did think there were simple solutions to fixing light scratches on new HW.

And thank you to everyone for your positive responses back to me and for understanding what I was trying to say in my first post.

I am not a real sensitive person...unless it's about my kids. And besides my kids or husband, I only cry on Hallmark sad commercials :-)

I wasn't really into giving out cyber hugs either, but I so APPRECIATE all that came to me....now I might have to rethink about giving them out now to strangers!!

And last but not least, I am so surprised this post has gotten 55 responses.....none of my other posts ever had, even the ones about my layout LOL! Maybe if I have another "real" question, I will first complain and then ask the question to get more responses.... :-)