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dee850_gw

small kitchen layout options - please advise!

15 years ago

I posted a while ago about suggestions/feedback for updating my 1975 kitchen, and your responses were so helpful! Actually, that plus lurking here got me and DH thinking about whether we really wanted a minor update or some more radical changes. If we end up ripping out the current cabinets, which we are now leaning further toward, then we may as well come up with the best possible layout, rather than just replicating what we had. So we've been considering possible options and I would love to get some feedback from you all. This is not anywhere near a final plan (and measurements are probably not perfect), this is more like "what could we potentially do in this space?"

I'm linking to my original post below, if anyone wants more photos/background.

The more substantial renovation possibility is motivated by a few factors. First, the original desire to change things came from the very narrow walkway we have in our current layout. We want to open that up. Second, DH is the main cook M-F, and he has chronic back pain issues. Anything we could do to reduce the bending down and searching for stuff in deep base cabinets would be welcome. Thus, we'd like as many base cabinet drawers as possible. We'd love a wall oven, but I don't know if that's possible here.

Most of the time, it's just one adult cook at a time, plus our preschooler who also loves to cook. There may be more kids in the future. We want to have at least the same amount of counter prep space as we have now, if not more. We rarely entertain, and we eat in the adjacent dining room. We do like the table and chairs in there now, though, more as a space for me to work at home with my laptop, and maybe future homework space. That's not necessarily a keeper, though. We will not be knocking down any walls, although we could potentially enlarge doorways a little if that would be a big improvement.

First, the current layout, so you can see where we're starting:



The cabinets were built in place in 1975, they are not separate units. The base cabs have just half-shelves. The blind corners are pretty much unusable caves. The 2 cabinets flanking the range are also useless - due to the large frames, nothing really fits in there. One currently holds plastic bags, and the other is my son's "play" cabinet. So, even if we lost some liner ft of cabinets, we'd probably gain in storage function. The windows on the left side of the kitchen start at 30" above the floor, too low for a normal countertop to fit below - this is why none of my plans include cabinets over there.

I used Ikea's planning program just because it's easy and free. We're not wedded to Ikea for cabinets in the end, although we do like them. DH is deeply in love with the domsjo sink, so it would be nice to accommodate him.

Here's option A: moving the plumbing a bit down the wall, which seems like the best way to give us access to the blind corner. The peninsula is moved to the left by about 10" and is shorter than the current layout. I like that this would give us a second prep space under the window between sink and range. We spend more time prepping than at the sink, and it would actually be nice to be able to see out the window when we're doing that. We like the idea of no uppers on the sink wall, but we'd probably put some floating shelves or a pot rack up there.

Option B: Similar to A, but added a row of higher cabinets to the back of the peninsula. More storage would be nice. This one doesn't include the 6" pullout on the sink wall, and raises the question of whether it would be weird to have the sink so close to the window but not directly beneath it.

Option C is my first attempt to get a wall oven in this space, by putting it right next to the refrigerator. We'd use the peninsula as the "landing space" for stuff going in and out of the stove. The negative is that I think a 24" deep high cabinet there will make the doorway to/from the family room feel tunnel-esque. This plan also moves the cooktop up along the wall, and that's assuming it is not a big deal to move the venting for our hood.

And here's option D, a bigger change -- removed the peninsula altogether. I think we still need something like a mobile cart closer to the fridge so that we have a counter space to put stuff down as we load or unload it. However, I think our our space may just be too small to make this work. I'm thinking that with a mobile cart, we'd always be pushing it around out of the way and ultimately find it annoying.

Do any of these ideas sound especially good or bad? Any other suggestions, things to consider?

Here is a link that might be useful: first post about my kitchen

Comments (18)

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    This is just a quick note on one item (it's getting late). Instead of doing a blind corner pull-out which seems like a lot of waste of space, what about doing the first 24" opening from the back of the peninsula for seldom used things, serving dishes, cookbooks etc, and then doing on the inside of the U, an 18" bank of drawers and then the 30" bank of drawers as drawn in option A and B with 44" aisles. (or 24" bank and then 30" with 40" wide aisle as drawn in Option C). But you could do that configuration in any of the options.
    How wide of a sink are you planning? Could you put your dishwasher and sink in the peninsula and then you would have a long run of counter and you would do away with the awkwardness of not having the sink centered under the window.
    If you were to put wall ovens by the fridge, I would be concerned about walking to a landing spot for both fridge and ovens with a toddler underfoot.
    Oh Oh OH - I just noticed something -consider this - Do you see on option D you have brought the sink wall down to the window (where you have your wall ovens drawn) can you not do that with the other plans as well and still have the peninsula. YOu would gain more counter space. Now,in order to do that just turn your table around so that the long way is against the wall with a chair at each end and two on the sides. That frees up some area because right now the table is a min of 53" into the room and by turning it the other way you would be a min of 29" into the room and would gain 2' of space which would allow you to move your peninsula to the left by that 2'.
    Honestly, I would give up the idea of a wall oven and concentrate on storage and counter space. Don't just consider current use but also future use with kids wanting to help cook and their art projects, school projects etc.. I'd go for the counters.
    I hope that bit about turning the table and shifting the peninsula made sense. It's late and time for bed.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    It's funny how very similar your floorplan is to ours, even though our house is 60 years older! Pretty much the same, actually, except that we have a second window next to yours near the sink, our dining room door is closer to the fridge wall (that's GREAT that yours isn't----the one big thing we wanted to change structurally but couldn't afford to!), we have a back door on the left wall instead of your family room door, and we don't have a laundry closet---though our neighbor with the identical floor plan added one when he remodeled, exactly where yours is. Our old kitchen had roughly your current layout except the peninsula was attached to the opposite side. The walkway felt very narrow (and was---today was the first day I could walk through with a laundry basket and not have to maneuver it!)

    Here are just a few thoughts from the process we went through with roughly this space (ours is 18'1" x 12'10" so a tiny bit wider)---dunno whether these might be factors for you:

    - I played with having the sink under our first window (where you have it in the last plan) and found the L incredibly tight that way---since you already have this, you'll know better how much you like/dislike it. For me, it wasn't enough space between the range and sink to really be good prep space, though. Any possibility of widening that window and centering the sink under it, or is that outside the budget?

    - In both our old and new layout, we put our table and chairs in the corner tucked between the two windows, which, like yours, are closer to the floor so no counters can go there. In our house this was actually an old breakfast room, which is why the windows were low. I really loved the way this "nook" functioned in the old kitchen---it's actually one reason we chose the house.

    - You could make a true "L" by putting the fridge at the end of the sink run and cutting off the peninsula---something we wanted to do but didn't have room for with a built-in cabinet we wanted to keep in the way. If you did that, it might give you more freedom to play with the other wall and it gets rid of the extra corner (though I have to say that our old layout had the fridge where yours is, we liked it fine there, and we are basically doing the same in the new space!)

    - Agreed that it is really tough to fit a wall oven into this space well. You can do it, but only at the cost of other things. For me, it wasn't worth it---we have a 36" range with oven that does the job nicely.

    - You can fit an island in this space, but it's very, very tight. We left our space open in the end, and were theoretically contemplating a mobile work table---but honestly, right now I'm really loving the feel of being able to look across the room and see/get to everything. Notably, we have no cabinets in yet so it may feel quite different then! ;)

    - We're leaving the uppers off next to the range to try to open up the space a bit. No clue if this will work but we'll find out very soon! The old uppers really closed off that corner, though, and it already feels like a much bigger room.

    Not sure if that will help for your thinking, but just in case it does. :) Good luck!

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Great ideas, thank you!

    I have thought about the idea of using a turned-around cabinet in the corner to access it from the other side of the peninsula, instead of a blind corner cabinet, and for me that hinges on what it would look like on the back of the peninsula. If it's just that one cabinet with doors and the rest is cover panel, I don't think I could go for it. On the other hand, if we put 12" D cabinets along the rest of the peninsula, deepening the whole thing but adding some storage, then I think it could look nice. Or would such a wide peninsula be weird?

    Visual comparison from the ikea planning software -
    What I don't think I'd like:

    What I think could look good:


    Although I guess I could achieve a similar look by using doors as a covering on the back of a single-cabinet-depth peninsula, right?

    We don't need a huge sink, 24" is what we're looking at, but it just doesn't seem right for me to put it on the peninsula. Perhaps it's just due to habit, since I've been using the kitchen this way for years, but I like the peninsula as clear prep space.

    As for turning around the table and moving the peninsula further to the left... we actually originally had the table perpendicular, and it felt pretty cramped. It seems ok on paper, but in reality I think we actually need more room for chair seating to feel comfortable. We also have to make sure there is clear space in front of the laundry closet.

    However, picking up on the "nook" idea that artemis78 mentioned, I have considered doing built-in bench seating in the corner under the larger windows, which could allow me to keep a table in there and also free up some space. To play with that idea, here's another layout I did where the peninsula is moved over to the left (bench and table measurements definitely not right, these are just what Ikea had in their options):

    And then here's the same idea with a row of shallow cabinets on the back of the peninsula to allow me to get rid of the blind corner (the space under the "A" would be covered by countertop in the real thing):


    The space between the end of the peninsula and the laundry closet wall is tight here, I'd probably want to keep that passage a few inches larger.

    I'm not quite ready to give up on the wall oven possibility just yet, although I can see that it would not give me as much counter space as a range. Here's another layout with wall oven, this time with the fridge on the same wall as the sink and a wall oven where the fridge used to be:


    Provides a landing space for oven stuff right next to it, but is also definitely not as much counter or base cabinet storage as the other layouts.

    So difficult to decide on an approach here!

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I like the last layout, with the fridge by the sink and the wall oven, between the pantry and baking center. I think this gives you a nice L, for your work triangle and you could put lots of drawers in the baking area, by the wall oven.

    The corner nook is great...plenty of seating and no peninsula dividing up your space. Very functional, beautiful space, but still kid friendly :)

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I also like the last layout. You say it doesn't have as much counter and storage as the other layouts - but the question is - does this layout have more counter and storage than you currently have. Don't forget that if you put in wall ovens you lose both counter and storage space so now you are heading into trade-off territory and decisions. Which is more important and valuable to you and your family.

    The locations of the fridge and ovens are much better. With young kids landing spots right beside both is really important and you have done that.

    If you do the bench seating in the corner with a table, which is a cool idea, the benches can have lift seats and then can be used for storage as well - things like your kitchen linens, seasonal dishes/trays etc.

    If you wind up back at option ? (the one with the drawers on the back of the peninsula) a wider peninsula (it would probably be just over 3' with the counter overhang of a couple of inches) would not look funny and would give you a nice wide prep area.

    You have a couple of good choices so now it's time to block them out in your current space and start cooking/prepping as if you are in them. Imagine yourself with the wall ovens and the fridge in the different locations etc etc. Start thinking about cabinet configurations (lots and lots of drawer - best thing going)

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks so much for the feedback - it's so valuable to get opinions here.

    DH is really pro-wall oven, based on his back issues. Unfortunately, that type of condition seems to only get worse with time.

    The last layout I posted, with the wall oven next to the pantry, seems really do-able. The counter space is similar to what we have now. We'd lose a couple of feet, but some of our current space is just a clutter magnet, so it doesn't get used well as it is and I don't think we'd miss it. Storage would actually be significantly better, because of how dysfunctional our current cabinets are. And we love the built-in nook idea. Storage in the benches, how could I have forgotten that - a nice bonus!

    We are nowhere near ready to start ripping things out and ordering cabinets, but I think we're getting closer to a goal plan here. Thanks so much for the help!

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    FWIW, that's roughly the counter space our new kitchen will have. It's shuffled around a little, but quite similar. I'll post photos soon, so you're welcome to take a peek and see what the layout looks like in real life in case that helps you figure out how it might work for your space!

    Also, our nook benches are the next phase of our project so we can play with the space a little, but one cool idea I found here was to have drawers that pull out from the ends (called "morgue drawers" on Gardenweb if you run a search). It only works for one of our two benches b/c you need clearance on the end for it to open, but I'm excited to try that out---you don't have to take anything off the bench to open it, then!

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I look forward to seeing your photos, artemis78! I remember seeing the "morgue drawers" here a while ago - loved the idea.

    Now that we're getting settled on an approach, it's going to be hard to wait for it to become fully realized :)

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I second the raised oven. I have slight back problems...and I love my raised oven! My mom's normal oven, seems so low...I feel like I'm practically standing on my head. LOL

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Dee850: First let me say, I'm partial to the layouts you've suggested that include the peninsula. To me, the open, unobstructed counter space that you buy with a peninsula/island is worth all of the headache. Perhaps that's because that's our main reason for redoing our kitchen. Regardless, I have quick question for you: Our kitchen layout is extremely similar to yours, only a bit smaller. We, too, would like to have a peninsula in the same position, but we're torn on whether a 30 inch walkway is too narrow. What width do you think is wide enough? How did you come to this number?

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The last plan has a little more room for extra chairs, with the banquette. The peninsula makes the area look a little tight, unless you just use the banquette.

    Just looking ahead, in case there are more kids, or at least more friends, visiting your now preschooler :)

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I love the banquette idea, especially if the seating is also storage for seldom used pieces or all those bulk items you need spots for.

    Consider open shelving in spots above the prep area/sink for plates. I love the look of open shelves and plating is something I always have done with the family. We have a small table and it saves space to leave serving to the kitchen area.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Lavender_Lass, I'm glad to hear you love your wall oven! Everyone who has one seems to. I think I'll enjoy it, myself, and DH is already thrilled with the idea - he's even been checking them out at appliance stores, and he's never been that interested in ovens before.

    I agree that the space would really open up without the peninsula. We could do a small table and keep it simple at first, but we'd have the room in the future to expand a little, add chairs.

    Ashleymking, I actually love the open counter space of the peninsula, myself, and if it weren't for DH's bad back and therefore the desire for a wall oven, I'd almost certainly keep the peninsula. The 30" walkway is definitely too narrow, though - I would gladly sacrifice the peninsula space for a larger walkway. It feels cramped just looking at it from across the room. This may not apply in your layout, but for us, looking in through the dining room door, the peninsula actually extends into that line of sight, so if you walk straight across the room you could walk into it. More importantly, it's a real bottleneck for people passing through. Only one person can comfortably pass at a time (2 if you don't mind brushing up against one another!), and with an active 3-yr-old and 2 little dogs, we feel like we're constantly telling someone to get out of the way. This is compounded by the layout of the refrigerator being just off the end of the peninsula, so the walkway is totally blocked if someone opens the fridge door. It doesn't sound like a big deal - of course you can just wait a moment until the person at the fridge is done - but it annoys us every day. We felt that between 40 - 44" would work for us, larger being better. We arrived at that number partly by looking at recommendations in posts here on GW and partly by looking at the sight lines through the doors, measuring ourselves standing there 2-deep and just imagining "what if I wanted to do X..." scenarios. Well, there's my novel about our walkway, LOL! Hope that's useful to you.

    Marthasdream, it's funny, I had considered open shelving for the plans with the peninsula but didn't think of it with the wall oven/ open plan. Thanks for the reminder that they could still work there! My open shelf fantasy is actually to have a set of 2 or 3 with some room on one for cookbooks, and the bottom shelf having hooks for my most-often used pans. Perhaps the dream isn't dead!

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    With the wall oven you really don't have to lose storage space if you do a cooktop instead of the range--just put nice large drawers under the cooktop. On word of caution: different cooktops require differing amounts of clearance under them which can limit your use of storage space beneath them. Of course, if you want 2 ovens, then this wouldn't work for you. (If you already mentioned this, my apologies, I just skimmed through the responses in between packing.) Another backsaver idea is a raised DW.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Yes, we definitely plan on doing big drawers everywhere possible, including under the cooktop! I have to give credit to this forum for opening my eyes to the idea of drawers in the kitchen - now that's all I want :)

    We're looking at the GE profile single-double wall oven as a potential compromise so we could get 2 ovens in the space of 1. We don't feel that we need 2 full-size ovens, but the ability to cook at 2 different temperatures at the same time is appealing. So far I've seen positive reviews on that model. We're a long way off on an oven purchase, though.

    I've seen a post or 2 around here about raised dishwashers, and it's definitely intriguing. We had thought about dishwasher drawers instead as a potential back-saving device, but then my research seemed to indicate that they are not always so great. So how does the raised washer work - just put it on a platform to bring it up a few inches?

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Coming in a day late, but been thinking about this and wanted to chime in. I actually had drawn out a plan, and a novel LOL, but by the time I went to post last night you had nixed the peninsula. Just my 2 cents, but I think you might really miss the peninsula. My kitchen is small, a pass through galley, and I cannot wait to create a very small counter at one end where my kids can sit and be with me but not be UNDER me at dinner/but I need help with my homework time. You'll have the table of course and are lucky, but it does seem like you'll lose valuable counter space. It would be nice to create a laundry nook with a stackable and move your pantry into that freed space. Isn't that nice of me to spend your $$? I had a stacked w/d in a nook under the stairs in my last house and it was a great use of vertical space. Of course with DH's back bending down for laundry could be bad! Anyway, your space reminds me of Jacduf's Small Creamy Yellow/Soapstone/Travertine Kitchen - I love her wide penisula. Good luck with all your plans :)


    Here is a link that might be useful: similar layout

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    cluelessincolorado, brilliant idea, thank you for posting! I would LOVE to keep the peninsula if I can also get a wall oven in there. We definitely can't move major walls, but I don't think opening up that pantry would be a big deal. Putting the pantry in the current laundry zone would actually be an improvement for traffic flow, because currently, the pantry door when open completely blocks the doorway to the dining room. I think that would probably be worth the extra few feet of distance from the food prep area. I actually had a nice stacking washer/dryer in my last house, loved them. And we are planning to get new ones here in the near future, so this is perfect timing to consider that option. Will have to see how DH feels about lower laundry, but if that's something he can deal with, the peninsula is back in consideration!

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Glad it gave you yet another idea to think about. I don't have a wall oven, but my back would love it too! I wasn't sure how the fridge would feel near the doorway, but if the peninsula is shortened and it's at least 18" away from the frame, it might be just fine.