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momto3kiddos

Ideas needed for kitchen layout - island seating question

15 years ago

Hi all! Still working on my floorplan and the kitchen space has changed a bit. I would love feedback on this space and ideas you may have. I am particularly wondering about the 42" bar height seating. I am not fond of this high seating, but I would like a way to block the view of my messy kitchen and sink (when I am cooking - I do clean up afterwards :). The kitchen is fully open to the living room and foyer. Also, do you think it will be a problem that the fireplace in the living area and the cooktop and hood are not centered on one another? I am planning a large stone fireplace. and a stone hood or backsplash for the range. Do you think there is enough storage in this kitchen? I am open to moving elements around - that's what the design phase is for, right? Thanks in advance for any feedback!

Comments (8)

  • 15 years ago

    First of all, congratulations- looks like a beautiful home!

    Aside from blocking the view of dirty dishes (which is a big plus), a raised height bar also provides a clear delineation of usage. For example, there's a natural indication of where the newspaper should go and where the dirty dishes should go. There are good reasons people stray from this natural pattern of interaction, especially in smaller kitchens or out of concern for small children (which your kiddos may be), but I think I would try and keep it raised in your kitchen if possible.

    I like your idea of placing some of the same materials found in the living room (such as the fireplace stone) in the kitchen. This will help bring the house together. I wouldn't worry too much about whether the fireplace lines up with the hood, in part because the rooms are designed such that folks will rarely have a view of both together. And even if there was some natural vantage point which caused you to see them both inline, I wouldn't rush to shift the hood down any further because that will increase the number of steps you take from the cooking area to the sink (a trip that is taken quite often).

    People often don't think enough about their day to day interactions with the elements of the kitchen. For example, what will you be looking at while you do the dishes? In your case, a dish washer can look out many windows, but also interact with folks at the bar or keep an eye on kids in the living room. Seems like exactly what you want. So, I would keep the angled island despite folks' accurate comments on your other post that it's not an ideal layout for storage space.

    Speaking of day-to-day interactions and your concern about storage, I would think about what each cabinet will be used for. For example, how far will you have to walk to put away a stack of heavy plates that just came out of the dishwasher? Can you put pots & pans where they're easily accessible from the cooking area? If you walk through this exercise, my hunch is you'll find that the cabinets around the sink/DW/oven end of the kitchen will be in high demand, and the space in the pantry and next to it is not as much. However, overall I think you have plenty of space (especially considering you've got a dining room buffet and wet bar cabinetry for some items other folks would have in kitchen cabinetry), so it may simply be a prioritization exercise.

    One thing I might think about changing is the pocket door between the mudroom and the kitchen. I love pocket doors for their efficient use of space, but they are not as easy to open and close. The passageway from the garage to the kitchen is one of the most heavily used in many households, and making it as simple as possible to pass through will pay off frequently.

    Because pocket doors are more difficult to open/close, they are also often left open. This is not a big deal in many of the situations where they're commonly used, but may be something to consider in your...

  • 15 years ago

    Interesting home design. I do have a few questions...
    How old are your children? If young, are you sure you want to be so far away from them at night? When my children were young, I remember many a night when I was woken by a child calling out to me because of a nightmare or b/c they were ill. I never would have heard them if I were on the opposite side of the house. Now that they are older, it's also easier to keep an eye on them...yes, you still need to keep an eye on what they're doing even as teens!
    Mudroom coat closet...If you plan for it to be the main family closet, I think it is much too small. It looks to be about the size of ours and I know it's too small for our family of four!


    Kitchen...I do have some concerns here.

    • Your Prep Zone and Cleanup Zone are one in the same...not a very good setup

    Your DW is in the middle of the Prep Zone
    You have very little space to the right of the sink
    Corner sinks limit the number of people who can work in a kitchen b/c only one person can be in front of the sink at one time. The corner makes it difficult to have people on each side, especially your setup.
    I actually see a lot of wasted space on the island
    Your pantry is pretty far from the kitchen...if you make several trips to/from it while prepping & cooking, it may become an issue...
    Raised counters....actually do not hide much.

    • Anyone whose head is above 42" off the floor will see into the kitchen just fine...the raised counter will not hide it.

    What it does do, though, is cut into the workspace on the lower side b/c the slight counter overhang on the kitchen side will stick out over the lower counter, sort of like the sill of a window.
    It will also be an issue with space behind the sink for a faucet...you will have to be very careful what faucet you choose...not all will fit there.
    With a raised counter, be sure your top counter is deep enough to accommodate eating a snack or even a meal...you need room for a plate + cup without either being so close to the edge that they might fall off if accidentally moved while eating. I think at least 18 inches are needed for the top space.
    Are your children young? Bar-height seating is more difficult for young children and older people to use. If you don't have a need to accommodate young children or older adults, then this will not be a consideration for you. However, keep in mind that just about everyone of all ages finds counter-height seating far more comfortable than bar-height.
    Lastly, a raised counter does not allow you to take advantage of the large expanse of work space islands normally offer b/c the raised counter eliminates that expanse!

    Changes...

    • I recommend moving the sink to the middle of the straight part of the island. Put the DW on the left side of the sink and the left side will be your Cleanup Zone; the right side of the sink will be your Prep Zone. Now you will have plenty of room for both tasks...
  • 15 years ago

    Thanks for your feedback guys! I found a few pics of island shapes that might work. Please look at these links to see them. There is a raised bar-height portion on one end and half of the long end with lovely furniture style legs. The last several feet (5-6 in my case) would be counter height . I am thinking the overall depth would be about 4 1/2 feet. This would allow enough room to walk around the island on the living room side and 5 ft of space in the 'galley' area. I think I would put the seating end away from the breakfast nook for the purposes of hiding mess and traffic flow around the island. I am excited that this might give me the large work area I was looking for (for wrapping gifts, school projects, etc) and hide a meal in the making. Please let me know what you think!

    https://www.houzz.com/photos/kelly-cross-traditional-kitchen-denver-phvw-vp~42590-Cross-traditional-kitchen-denver

    https://www.houzz.com/photos/kelly-cross-traditional-kitchen-denver-phvw-vp~42590-Cross-traditional-kitchen-denver

    Now I also need to decide whether to swap the fridge with the ovens and shift the prep area toward the breakfast nook, or should I put the clean up on that end since most dirty dishes will originate there? I am really thinking of having trash cans on both ends of the island and recycling near my prep area - wherever that may be. :)

    Here is a link that might be useful: [Staggered island seating[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/kelly-cross-traditional-kitchen-denver-phvw-vp~42590)

  • 15 years ago

    Here's the pic from another angle, but you can see the seating following the link above.

  • 15 years ago

    I'll just mention that I love the photo posted above, but when I look at your layout, I'd rather see the kitchen / FR combo instead of the kitchen / LR combo or see the FR integrated better. As it is now, it seems the FR is isolated and may not be used as much since it is out of sight, out of mind. How old are your children?

  • 15 years ago

    Hi Dilly - Thanks for your response. The center room will be the family room and for now the back room will be the playroom/game room. My husband's hunting trophies will adorn the walls. We would like to have that area a little bit removed so that the kids can play back there when we entertain and not be "right there" with us, and as teenagers, they can have a hang-out of their own. The toys can also have a home that if it gets a little messy it is not in plain view. We are planning to rework the rear room to be able to access the back porch directly, which should make it a tad more usable when entertaining. I hope that makes sense. Our home will be very casual in all areas (except maybe the dining room). Our kids are 1, 4 & 6. I want the home to meet our needs now, but it will be our forever house, too, so we are designing with the consideration that at some point in the distant future, it will be just my husband and myself. We are builing on a 30 acre farm adjacent to family land, so God-forbid something terrible, we will be in this home forever. Thanks again! I look forward to more feedback.

  • 15 years ago

    That looks like a great house! I love the off-season storage and other storage on the bedroom side, and lots of the other details. It looks like you have really thought this through.

    I also really like the mixed-height island you posted above. In my experience, the raised counter does help hide a bit of mess because, in general, people in the LR will be sitting down and won't be able to see over it. Having part of it be a single height will give you a nice big expanse. Cool!

    I also like Buehl's suggestion to make the desk a drop zone / message center and increase the size of the closet in the mudroom.

  • 15 years ago

    Thanks Chicago - Your words are so kind. Summerfield has helped me tremendously in the Building a Home forum. Many of the ideas were his. I am considering making that a message center - everyone needs a junk drawer and place to put mail, keys, electronics and purses! I am starting to become convinced that in this ipad, laptop age, we may never use a desk again! :)