What are your local building codes? Is this his personal opinion, or is it the code?

I have no idea. We are in northern NJ. I believe it's the code, but my contractor said that usualy it's overlooked by all inspectors, as there is no other solution and nobody wants to have ugly outlets in the new beautiful kitchens.

post in http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/wiring/ to see what people say about this.

i think you will need to be able to describe the type of light fixture to them, but they can give you the words and they can direct you to see the right parts to look at, so you will be able to tell which of the various types of wires, bulbs, plugs, voltages, wattages, etc that you have. It is really easy after you are able to describe everything. Then, you will find it easy to know what you r options are.

Some kinds of wires are not permitted to be buried inside walls. Those wires are made to be exposed, or hidden behind plastic C channeling, or run through cabinets but not inside walls. Anyone could replace a wire with a thicker wire (there is no bad effect when you use a thicker wire; it is better). The wires that are permitted to run inside walls are thicker than those used to run kitchen cabinet lights together.

My writing all this out is to give you information, not to say this is my recommendation. Not yet. Maybe in a while, after more discussion, this idea will be my recommendation to you. It all depends.

HTH

To solve this problem, you need to:

(1) Find out what the code says, and

(2) Find out whether it is true "that all inside and undercabinets lights are hardwired and manufactured the way they can not be wired inside the walls." (In other words, do your research on the web and by calling lighting manufacturers to see who, if anyone, makes undercabinet lights that can be wired inside the walls.)

To understand what the code means, you might need to shell out $150-$250 or so talking to a local lawyer who--and this is key--SPECIALIZES in real estate and/or construction law. Ask for recommendations or call various lawyers from the yellow pages to explain your problem and see if they can help. For the cost of a few square feet of backsplash tile you could get this figured out.

Basically your goal here should be to understand what the rules actually are (i.e. what the code means) and to learn which brands/models of undercounter lights comply with those rules. That is the only way to win this argument with the electrical inspector.

Fixture wires can never be enclosed in a wall. The actual Romex is what is in the walls, and it joins the fixture wiring inside a junction box. The junction box must be in an accessible location.

You can easily solve this problem by using shallow work boxes under your cabinets and a light rail molding to hide the boxes and the work.

I'm also in northern NJ, in a town with very strict inspectors and didn't have that issue. Do you have your lights on site? My in-cabinet and under cabinet lights are all on switches with dimmers. Their setup isn't much different than the wiring to the ceiling lights. Are you using switches to control the lights?

I have xenon UC lights that were designed to be hard-wired so that's what my electrician did. So do companies make lights that are against code??? I have to say that I can't see any difference from a ceiling light either.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hard-wired UC lights

Toto

I agree with others - until you actually see what your town code is you can't really make a determination on the install.

Do yourself a favor & make a trip to your town's building dept - someone there should be able to direct you to the code you are inquiring about.

There is the IBC - International Building Code & then town's adopt their own.

Good luck

Question: shouldn't her contractor and electrician know the answer to this, or be finding out? It seems odd that a homeowner, who may be completely ignorant of electrical matters, should have to go down to the local building department to puzzle over the IBC and figure out what terms like junction box, Romex, gauge, C channel, etc mean. I know sometimes that is the reality - sometimes you just have to do it yourself - but does anyone think she should start out by kicking her contractor's a**?

your libary should also have a copy of the code. make sure that all read the admendments to that code. Our town happens to use the 2008 NEC but has admendments like no romex, no bx etc.

You electrician should have spoke to the inspector prior to starting the job to ensure that all goes smothly. Some inspectors are not as by the book as long as it is safe others are.

'I have no idea. We are in northern NJ. I believe it's the code, but my contractor said that usualy it's overlooked by all '

ask your contractor what CODE IS, not what they 'usually' accept.

but don't trust him... go to the bldg dept yourself. call in advance and ask when they are least busy (some days are busier than others - as are some times of the day). you might also ask if you can make an appointment to speak with someone knowledgeable there. Ask them about this. Have them show it to you in the code - and have them PRINT that section out for you.

then you'll know.

as a citizen, they are there to serve you. If you don't seem to get anywhere with those on the phone or at the counter, get the name of the dept manager... and dept head and go higher up. Don't let this intimidate you - they are people hired to work FOR the citizens. They don't usually want a stink raised by citizen or hitting the press. They don't even want it to go higher up than their position...

I am following this thread with interest & hope the OP can have their lighting without undue financial hardship & complexity.

Yes John her contractor & electrician "should" now the local codes - that said I have seen where old school contractors are perhaps not up to snuff sort or speak with the nuances of codes and/or changes. Same goes for electrician -

Last encounter I had with this type of scenario was with a gas range install & the plumber stating the shut off needed to be "within reach" - therefor wanted to cut into my brand new custom made mahogany cabinetry - He is a good & trusted plumber & learned through the fruit of my research that in fact that was outdated code. Think about it, if there is an emergency - smell of mercaptan is one going to go searching for the shut off valve? or head out of the house & let the gas co & emergency responders take care of that.

I agree w/DS - due diligence in what is currently on the books with the Town - is what needs to be revealed. This should not be all that difficult.

Best to you

bump

toto what was the outcome?

this is hearsay so take it for what its worth. in my area my cabinet guy said basically if you're doing line voltage UC lights, you need to terminate in a box. If you're going low voltage UC lights, you can terminate in the cabinet/fixture.

He has done plenty of installs where they just tape up and wire nut the line voltage lights in under cabinet area, but its not code and won't pass if its inspected.

Just do what everybody else does.

Do it the farcical way your inspector says, but don't install your backsplash yet.

After signoff, get an electrician to come back and do it the way you want.

The Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) has the final say, but his say should be compliant with whatever code the municipality has accepted. There is some leeway in the NEC, and some ambiguity, so discussing what is required with the AHJ before getting too far into the construction is a good idea.

The use of low voltage lights should simplify the requirements. I ran Romex (Type NM) cable in the walls to avoid risk, but used 12 Vdc lamps (LEDs) and 12 Vdc feed to the Romex. The 12V power supply should provide some protection from shorting via fusing or foldover response.

kas

What do the installation instructions for your particular lights say?

We used undercabinet led lights. The Romex is run through the walls, from the switch to a special junction box that is mounted up under the cabinet. With a light rail you can't really see it. Then the lights are plugged into the junction box with jumper cables from fixture to fixture.

Low voltage lighting will be much cheaper and a lot faster than fixing what you got or arguing with the inspector.

**Do it the farcical way your inspector says, but don't install your backsplash yet.
After signoff, get an electrician to come back and do it the way you want.**

Here's hoping that if "the way you want" causes a fire, your homeowner's insurance doesn't use the "it's not to code" excuse for refusing to pay your claim.

I know this is an old post, but...

Main issue here is that the electrical codes are STATE level, and do not vary from town to town! The local inspector is using state codes to guide the inspection. BUILDING codes, however, DO vary from town to town. Further, this headache belongs to the electrician and NOT the homeowner! Why are you even involved?