Umm, the pic might help. DOH!

Where's the dining area from the kitchen? It helps to know what other rooms are in each direction. Are you planning/do you want any bar or island seating? Is there a plan for the stretch of wall below the right wall of cabinets that backs up to the bedroom you show? I think you have room for an island, but not with the peninsula. Do you want/have you considered a prep sink anywhere? Is this all on paper right now, or is this an existing space? Are you the only cook or do you share the kitchen? Do you cook just a little? Bake quite a lot? Do you entertain? Do the boys help or do projects in the kitchen? Are they still little or teens with lots of friends coming in?

Lots of questions...But the answers to these and probably more will help to know how to help you.

Good questions! This is new construction, haven't even broken ground yet (hoping to in the next couple of weeks).

Dining room is across the hall at the top. We do want bar seating, but it won't be a raised bar. Not really interested in a prep sink. Dh and I both cook, but usually one at a time. We cook most meals, I'm a sahm (and homeschooler, so 3 meals a day). I love to bake, but don't do it right now as much as I'd like. We entertain some, but not a lot. The boys do like to help (trying to make my future dil's love me!) they are all under the age of 11.

As for the space below the kitchen, I was thinking I might do a little bistro set if there is room, and I have computer armoire that I was thinking of puting on that right wall.

I now realized you'd already explained or at least indicated some of the info I asked for. I totally get the homeschooling/3 meals a day/using your house 24 hours a day thing, as I am a SAH homeschooling mom myself. (4 boys, 4 girls. 2 are past the homeschooling stage though...DD in college and DS starting an electrical apprenticeship, maybe doing college later...Seems like a short time ago they were under 11, too!)

Would you want to give up the peninsula to have an island? It can be a great (and additional) place for prep and for baking, especially with kids helping. It might also keep you from walking 10 ft across the kitchen everytime you need to access another counter. Right now your kitchen is pretty wide, which can decrease efficiency. I could see a prep sink in the island or peninsula being very helpful, but I also understand prioritizing and it isn't at the top of your wish list.

Wow, I'm impressed, homeschooling 8!

As for the peninsula, I really do love the shape it gives the kitchen. The kitchen is wide b/c dh wants that island of his. In the original plan, it wasn't quite as wide. I try to give him what he wants b/c he has pretty much left all decisions to me, although he does like to help with decorating decisions (and he has good taste!).

How big would the island be and how would it be situated? The kitchen is wide, but I'm not sure there's room enough for much of an island while leaving comfortable aisles, still be able to get past the pantry, etc.

That is something yet to be determined. It will not be a permanent type, but something that can be moved. I'm thinking it can't be very big, which is fine. Our last kitchen had an island that was small but handy.

I'll be off for a bit, have to go for a braces consultation for the oldest. Now how am I supposed to pay for braces when I need that money in my kitchen? ;) JK!

Ooooh...Braces. Don't envy you that one. We have been through 3 sets of them so far. Right now no one has them and I am avoiding starting up with any of the rest...our last one had such a hard time with hers and I don't miss the bill. I just wonder who will actually give us an objective opinion of the 'need' for them...Not the orthodontist, obviously, or even the dentist who thinks all teeth must be straightened and made perfect. OK...I am wandering WAY off topic!

Just be sure to draw in the island in its possible locations to make sure it will be as you imagine.

Will the overhang for bar seating go all along the peninsula (where there's no wall)? Where do you think you'll use your mixer and keep your baking supplies? --Trying to determine where you could have a lowered counter. Maybe the whole stretch to the left of your range? I am 5'3 and also like a lower counter for chopping, etc. We'll actually have a few places with lowered counters, since the kids and I all seem to prefer them for mixing, baking, and all types of prep activities.

Oh, that was painful! I'm hoping one of the other drs has a better price than our little local one. $4500!

Anyway, the kitchen. I'm not sure where I would put the mixer, that's one of the things I wanted help with. I'm just not sure what the best layout for everything would be. I do want an over hang on the peninsula, I guess it would start where the wall ends?

Warning! OT

If you live in Maryland (Montgomery, Howard, Frederick, or Prince George's Counties), I could send you the name of an orthodontist (Olney, MD) who is honest and conservative in his use of braces... He believes it's a mistake to jump in too early to fix teeth, many of which fix themselves if given time. (He was so right about DD! They straightened themselves out beautifully!) He does, however recognize when a "little nudging now" will avoid bigger problems later... (in our case, he used a mouthpiece worn at night that straightened out teeth misaligned due to extended thumb-sucking--worked in half the normal time, too!)

Buehl, I've been to Maryland before (db attended USNA), but I don't think that counts... We're in the 'other Washington,' which is a bit far. Good to hear there is an orthodontist out there like that. Wish I could find one here.

armom...How about taking your floorplan and filling in some of those things you've talked about, and we can go from there...And hopefully, others will see it and have some input. I find people respond less to 'blank slate' plans than to something more specific they can sink their teeth into.

Ok, I'll work on some details. Dh went out and bought BH&G Home Designer, so when I figure out how to use that, maybe I can post what I came up with on that, also.

Thanks so much for the advice, I really appreciate it. I'm so happy I found these boards!

I use the software by the parent company who makes the BH&G, so if you have any questions, I can probably help. You can email me through 'my page' if you'd ever rather do that than post.

You are so sweet! I will definitely email you if I get stuck. I watched the first tutorial cd and it seems pretty user friendly so far.

The software is fun...and, I'll warn you, addicting. I 'lived' in our house in the computer renderings for months before we even broke ground...still do as it is taking shape. It helps keep your eye on the prize and also helps get all the little details 'just right.'

I've come up with a possible layout. I don't have any design software, so graph paper and pencil! (Oh, the scale in the drawing is 1 square = 6"x6")

Note that I moved some things around mainly b/c I was trying to fit the island in as well as adhere to your implied constraint about not expanding into the eating area. Note that this arrangement also eliminates a lot of going back & forth b/w the left and right walls, so the relatively long distance b/w is no longer a factor.

First, here's the picture:

Now the details and my rationale:

Work Zones: I divided your kitchen into work zones as best I could. You now have a baking zone, prep zone, cleanup zone, cooking zone, and Beverage zone. Because the sink is used for both prep and cleanup, I've placed it b/w the range and the prep area. Your current work flow is Refrigerator/Pantry...to peninsula prep area...to sink...to cooking area...to DR.

Baking Zone: Has a lowered counter height, a deeper counter (30"), and is approximately 4 feet long. It also includes the MW drawer b/c of the location of the refrigerator (The MW could be moved next to the range, but I felt it was too close to the DR doorway.)

Beverage Zone: This is located on the end of the Baking Center's counter. Mugs and your Senseo supplies can be stored either above or below that area. It's next to the Bistro table and corner seat since I thought it would be nice to be able to make a cup of coffee or tea and sit down right there to read the paper, magazine, or good book! I also thought a cushioned corner seat with pillows would be a nice feature.

Prep Zone: has the trash pullout (oops! Didn't mark it on the picit's the 18" space on the peninsula next to the sink.). It also has ample room for prep while being a part of whatever is going in the "Bistro" area, computer area, or FR. The sink is close by as well.

Cleanup Zone: The sink is the dividing point b/w the cleanup and the prep areas. The peninsula side is the prep area while the wall side is the cleanup area. It includes the sink as well as the DW with over 3' of space b/w the sink and the range.

Cooking Zone: I moved it to this wall for a number of reasons. One reason is that food will generally go from the range to the DR so by putting the range on this side it's closer to the DR. It's also close to the cleanup zone for dirty utensils, etc. Another reason is that I needed the room on the far corner for the Refrigerator and Baking Center. And finally, I was concerned about having a vent on the same wall as a bedroom. I don't know how loud your fan will be, but just in case I'm recommending it not be on that wall. (If you do end up putting it there, I recommend putting the bedroom closet b/w the kitchen wall and the rest of the bedroom.)

Appliances, etc.

Island: The portable island is 3' x 3'. I thought this would give you ample room for prep or even school project work. When not in use, it rolls into the corner b/w the pantry and the DR doorway. Note that since it is only 36" wide, it can fit through the 42" aisle b/w the Baking Center and the peninsula. You could roll it into the eating area for additional space there as well. Pretty good idea to have it portable!

Peninsula: While I didn't expand the peninsula into the lower area, I did add 12" in depth to provide knee space. 15" is better, but w/o going into the eating area, I don't think you can afford to lose any more room in the kitchen. You'll notice that to add the 12" I had to take 12" off the main kitchen area. This extra depth also makes it an ideal expanse for prep work and projects. (With the island, if someone is doing a project on the peninsula, the island can be pulled out for prep work.)

The clearance b/w the peninsula and Baking Center is 42"

Note there is an 18" overhang on the corner of the peninsula. This extra space is so there's room behind the sink for eating/working and to cut down on splashing the seater!

Refrigerator: I moved that to the right wall because it's more accessible to the three main areas than in the back of the kitchen. In the new position, it's in the Kitchen and about equidistant b/w the DR and FR/seating area. Refrigerators are often accessed from the Kitchen for preparing meals, the FR for snacks, and the eating areas for condiments and "more milk" at meals. I didn't know the size of your refrigerator, but since you said you were going to put it in the 42" area b/w the pantry and the DR doorway, I assumed 42"W x 36"D.

MW Drawer: I tentatively put that in the Baking Center. It's close to the refrigerator for cooking frozen vegetables, reheating leftovers, etc. It's also easily accessed from the FR for making popcorn without interfering with the kitchen work areas (except Baking).

Range: You don't want it too close to the DR doorway for safety reasons. I think 30" or so should be fine though. There should be plenty of room to open the oven since most of it is beyond the island storage area (and if the island isn't there, it's a non-issue.)

Hood: The hood is 42" wide. It is generally recommended that the vent hood be 6" wider than the cooking surfaceÂextending 3" over on either side.

Sink: I didn't know what kind of sink you want, so I put in a 36" double bowl sink. With no prep sink, I thought it would make the sink more versatile, allowing dirty cups or dishes to be in one side and still be able to do prep work on the other side. With two bowls, it also allows someone to be doing some cleanup while someone else is doing prep.

Eating/Computer Area: This one was tough to make work. I actually did two designsÂone with a full table utilizing benches along the right & bottom wall and one that has a small Bistro table w/the corner seat.

In both cases, I moved the Computer Armoire to the other side of the lower doorway. I don't recommend putting the computer too close to the Baking Center since you don't want flour dust anywhere near the computer!

I put in a 3' in diameter Bistro table w/3 Bistro chairs. A fourth would be the corner seat. The table is easily move around to be near the Beverage Center or pulled away if desired.

I also moved and reduced the lower doorway. It was 7' but I reduced it to 5' and moved it over the left to give you a longer wall run. The longer an uninterrupted wall, the more you can do with it. (BTWÂwhere does that doorway lead to? A hallway to the bedrooms? Garage? Something else?)

Message Center: I was stymied on that one. Since I don't know where people are coming in from outside, I didn't now what the best location would be for that. It could be added to the eating area, maybe next to the Computer Armoire. There really isn't room in the kitchen for it either. [It would hold the landline phone, phone books & directories, a charging station, keys, and other paraphernalia that accumulates at entry points. It might also have the family calendar and a dry-erase or chalkboard.]

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Here's the first design I came up with that has a full-size table in the eating area. One thing, I forgot to add the Computer Armoire to the left of the lower doorway. It also has a generic 42" hoodÂpicture it with the one in the first picture. IN this one, the doorway is reduced to 4' and, again, moved to the left somewhat.

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HTH and gives you some ideas to work with! Remember, though, this is your kitchen so ultimately it should be designed the way you think it will work best for you!

Good luck!

Hmmm....just noticed something...DW access may be tight since the sink is a corner sink. To address that, you might put the 12" space b/w the DW and sink rather than b/w the DW and range.

Oh wow, buehl! Thank you, those are some great ideas to think about. I'll show this to dh and see what he thinks. I do love where you put the beverage center, very accessable w/o having to go into the kitchen.

The opening at the bottom is actually a window, then a few feet into the family room is a set of french doors, so there would be no room for the computer there. The garage is down the hall at the top of the kitchen, to the right.

Also, it would be possible to move the doorway at the top to be next to the pantry and allow more of a corner at the end of the run of counters. Do you think that would be better in any way?

It depends. There is only 42" of "extra space" if you do that.

If you need a place to "store" the island when it's not in use, which I recommend, the current location keeps it out of the way...and you would lose it if you put cabinets in instead.

Corner cabinets do sometimes waste space and will also cut down on the run of cabinets. It might make the range a little tight since it would either be where it is now w/very little space b/w the short run & the range...OR...if you put it on the short run it would just fit with little or no space to the right of it. (3" filler + 36" cooktop + 3" at end = 42")

Whether it stays where it is or moves, you will need to have a "blind corner" cabinet to access the back corner area since there's no room for a lazy susan.

A better idea, if you want to put in more cabinets, would be to leave the doorway where it is and put a 36" or 39" cabinet there.

What you could do, which would be nice, is create a "Dish Hutch". Put in a 30" deep drawer base cabinet w/countertop and then add a 15" wall cabinet--ceiling to counter. To finish it off, add lights and glass doors in the wall cabinet and crown molding and maybe even furniture feet. I think it would look very nice!

If you do put in additional cabinets or a dish hutch, I'd probably reduce the island to maybe 36"Wide x 30"Deep (maybe even 30" x 30") since you will have to have the island somewhere at all times.

Wait! I just had a thought. Since the island will fit b/w the peninsula & Baking Center, why not store it in the wall space b/w the 7' window & French Doors in the FR?

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As to the Bistro table & Computer Armoire, if you cannot shorten or move the 7' window, then I'd:

* Put the Computer Armoire in the lower right corner (you don't want it too close to the Baking Center--the last thing you need is to get flour, etc. in the computer or keyboard!)

* Get a small Bistro table (24" wide?) and a couple of chairs and place them in front of the 7' window.

* Put in a nice padded bench and pillows b/w the Baking Center/Beverage Center and the Computer Armoire. (It would be too tight/croweded to put the Bistro table & chairs in this space.)

********* Summary ********

I now think that it would be nice to put in the "dish hutch" and store the island in the eating area (b/w window & FD) It'd also be a nice look when looking in from the windows or the eating area to see a nice hutch across the way.

Move the Bistro set & computer Armoire as described and add a comfy bench next to the Beverage Center (for a nice relaxing place to sit and sip your tea or coffee).

What do you think?

I think I really like that idea! And we're going for a bit of an old world look, so I like that it would look like a piece of furniture. I'm going to spend the afternoon with the BH&G software today, so I'll see if I can get all that in there and see what it looks like. I'm a very visual person, so I have a hard time "seeing" things that are described in words.

I think the kids would love a little padded bench, I can see them cuddled up there reading a book or playing their Nintendo DS.