Would you really want him to make cabinets for you that he has never made before and feels are lower quality?

If you really want frameless I would go to a different cabinet maker.

He wants you to think framed are "better" because that's all he makes. You do NOT want him experimenting with frameless for you. It's a whole different skill set and needs a lot more precision.

Frameless or framed can both be high quality. Neither is "better". They just suit different needs.

Thanks! That is very true...I don't want to be his guinea pig for frameless cabinets. Thanks for the feedback!

Totally agree. In fact that's one of my basic tenants when dealing with any craftsman - stick with what they are most comfortable with. For example, I really liked Silestone suede finish, but decided against it when it bacame apparent that my fabricator (who I really like) wasn't familiar with it.

Totally agree. In fact that's one of my basic tenants when dealing with any craftsman - stick with what they are most comfortable with. For example, I really liked Silestone suede finish, but decided against it when it bacame apparent that my fabricator (who I really like) wasn't familiar with it.

Ditch this guy if you want frameless. At a very minimum, get a sample and decide if you can live with it. Put it through the same test that the KCMA puts manufactured products through and see if it passes. Most custom cabinets won't pass. Especially the finish tests.

Here is a link that might be useful: KCMA testing

If you want frameless and you are going to someone who does custom cabinets, get someone who DOES frameless. It's a different animal. If he's not familiar with frameless, it's likely that it won't turn out well for either of you if he agrees to do it.

When we were searching for our cabinet maker, we were looking to the Amish for a bit and they didn't do frameless, woudn't do frameless. End of story. Had we gone with them, we would have had to have framed cabinets.

We contacted different people, many who didn't do frameless. Some who said that framed was superior/frameless was inferior. Others who said that it was just personal preference.The frameless cabinet makers that we talked with said that they actually had a harder time convincing our (rather conservative) area that frameless was every bit as good.

We talked with some who did both, and most of them said that they felt frameless was the way they would go in their own kitchen.

A poor quality/ill fitted frameless cabinet is going to be unfortunate. Do yourself (and your prospective cabinet maker) a favor and if you want to go with frameless cabinetry, find someone who does frameless cabinets.

Keep in mind that Frameless pretty much infers particle board. Whether that's good or bad is up to you.

I like frameless myself but I also like plywood over PB so it's a daunting decision.

I think a combo is the best way to go as I see nothing wrong with PB on the uppers (except the weight), But, on the lowers, especially under the sink, you want plywood.

That said, frameless is possible with plywood. It's just not as dimensionally stable as PB.

In defense of cabinet makers who "won't" do frameless, it has a lot to do with not just a different skill set, but different tools altogether. A few shops may be trained in both cabinet types and have the correct tools for each type - unusual, but possible - but most do one or the other.

If you really want frameless (I'm a fan), then go a different direction than your custom guy. On the other hand, if you love, love, love his work, then decide you love framed cabinetry. Really, it's only those of us with small kitchens for whom this is really important.

remember frameless gives you more space, more visibility....you can see everything at a glance...and reach in easily.
I had them in my first kitchen, missed them for 22 years here in our next one, and that was highest on the list of must haves with the reno\. I am so happy to have them back.
I assume you've field tested both.....

I am also a frameless girl !! (UltraCraft)

That being said, if you definitely want to use this guy, perhaps he could make framed but with a smaller face frame than he typically makes ?

"Keep in mind that Frameless pretty much infers particle board. Whether that's good or bad is up to you."

I'm sorry, but this is UNTRUE.

While IKEA cabinets are particleboard, all the custom cabinet makers that we spoke with used either MDF (which is quite different than particle board) or plywood.

There are advantages and disadvantages of both MDF and plywood. For our cabinets, we opted for plywood.

The amount of kitchen cabinets we will have is pretty sizable, so the extra space wasn't as much of a concern to us (although, really, why wouldn't I want to maximize the amount of usable storage in any case?) as the ease of seeing everything in the cabinet?

When we were talking with the cabinetmaker that did only framed cabinetry, he did say that he could minimize the face frame. But in the end, it was still going to have that lip that I prefer not to have. They were still someone that we were considering for a while however because we were having a difficult time finding people who made frameless...and a framed cabinet is better than NO cabinets!

Susannesl has a very good point that not only is the skill set different, but the tools in which to make the two different types of cabinets are different. A frame cabinet maker would need to go out and purchase new tools in order to make frameless cabinetry.

NDSA you sound like me. I really wanted frameless. I don't have hangups about framed or frameless being better made, both, when well made are good cabinets. I was concerned about space because I was eliminating practically all uppers, and a modern aesthetic.
I did a lot of shopping. Brookhaven, Medallion, Innermost, Dynasty/Omega, Plain and Fancy and 3 custom cabinet makers. In the end I went with a custom cabinet maker who only makes framed cabinets. But his framed cabinets are not the framed cabinets made by, for example, Dynasty/Omega, they are much more spacious and after he and I had a LONG conversation about construction details we came up with the term, "modified framed". The frame is smaller, there are no rails between the drawers, the one cabinet I have with shelves, has no lip to pull things up and out over(pet peeve).
I got so much out of working with my custom cabinet maker I highly recommend an honest conversation with the person you are considering. Tell him why you want frameless and he may be able to alleviate your concerns.

I have done 2 custom kit with framed because I want inset cabinets. My present kit is small so I made one side deeper both uppers and lowers and only have a toe kick on the sink. I also had him do the frames & stiles as small as possible. All 3 modifications gave me a lot of space.