Ooo Lavendar, I love that mud room!

I have absolutely zero qualification and zero credibility in layout commentary. I am so deeply befuddled by my own. I must leave this to other minds.... I am very, very sorry!

I'm not a lay out guru either, but I have been following your threads with interest. This is my favorite floor plan yet that you have posted. It feels very comfortable and welcoming to me and makes a lot of sense. I would enjoy working in those wonderful spaces!

Let's see what the pros have to say!

Thanks to both of you! I appreciate your optimism...and I think it would be a cheerful place to cook, eat, and/or sit and chat...and still have enough storage space...at least I hope so! :)

How does this vary from the plan before last? It seemed like that kitchen layout was pretty good. It included a prep sink...Have you given that up?

In this one, the dw location bothers me....Too close to the range, and when open, it will block access to the storage and counterspace in that whole corner. I'd move it to the other side of the sink and consider the trash pullout where you now show the dishwasher, unless you plan it for the island across from the sink, where you can access it from cleanup and prep/cooking areas.

Rhome- Those are good points! I could move the range down a foot, if necessary.

I'm never sure where to put the dishwasher, where it's not blocking something. If I put it on the left of the sink, it blocks the sink area from the fridge...and the trash is further for people to use...but it's better for me.

So many decisions! LOL

The one thing I thought about is how much you're trying to squeeze into the family room. We have a sunroom about that size (oriented differently) but I would feel crowded with so much in it. The space for the mud room and pantry are awesome; but do you think it may take up too much valuable real estate? Maybe you can or something and would find that much storage there useful. OH... I also thought about the WD under the kitchen window. Do you keep your W/D free of baskets, folded clothes, container of laundry soap at all times? I ask cause I don't (sometimes but not always!) and would not want to look through my kitchen window and see that. Now that I've admitted that I'm probably not as neat as most...

I actually think the DW is okay where it is. It's not a range, but cooktop and wall oven at the end, right? So there wouldn't be an oven problem. As long as you have a full 12" to the corner for the cabinet it should be fine. I've had a DW in a corner like that and it was actually quite convenient, except for having to reach over it to put things away. The other side of the sink should be fine, too.

The kitchen looks functional (most L's are and the flow across yours looks right), and I like the way you've drawn the dining area. The whatnot and window seat help define it with a separate identity from the kitchen proper. I kind of hate losing the formal dining room, but this does give you the larger kitchen/seating area that you want. The way these flow into the keeping room make what appears to be a very comfortable and inviting space that should be great for both family life and casual entertaining.

The pantry looks great--and needed. It gives you plenty of storage for the less immediate needs that's plenty close enough to the kitchen proper, while leaving the actual kitchen area for that cozy, people oriented feeling you wanted. One concern, however, is the window. There are a lot of pantry items that really don't want sunlight. You can handle that in several ways. You can put some doors in the pantry, or covered boxes or something, put heavy UV/IR coatings on the window, curtains either over the window or the food, etc. Or just be careful with what you put in there.

Also, the sink there is handy, but will you want to use a sink in the pantry for washing your mop, muddy boots, etc? Is that an existing sink? Is there no good way to put it near the washer? That shouldn't cost extra since the water and drains are already there.

There are only two real dislikes on this plan, and I think they're tradeoffs for what good you get. One is the kitchen chairs with their backs to the keeping room doorway. Unlike when it's completely open, or completely closed, this is a walking area and open both. There's nothing at all "wrong" with this other than it can feel creepy. I won't sit in that position at restaurants. I really think from a functional point of view, however, that you've maximized the space here by doing that.

The other thing is similarly a "feeling" thing dictated by the space. For the overall layout of the house it feels like this side is oriented to the south (left of page) and the rest of the house is oriented to the north. Given the location and shape of the stairs, this plan uses the space well, but it's a consequence of the way you use the stair wall (a good thing) with the opened dining room and keeping room.

As I said, these are two considerations that aren't going to break the plan. Just consequences of changing the intention behind the original design.

I may not remember the previous plans well enough, but this feels different to me, and like it should be very nice.

My suggestion for the screen porch is that you have it designed so that you can do just the floor...in other words a deck...and add the walls and roof later. That would probably cost more than just a plain deck, but should save a lot in the short term, and save in the long term for when you can afford to finish it out.

Good question...it's actually smaller scale furniture...a settee and a few chairs with a little ottoman (and a small table in front of the settee).

I wanted to keep the furniture scale small, but not wicker (due to the kitties) so more of a french country style. The chairs would be light weight enough to move to the dining room table and use for extra seating. The settee is for seating one or two people...but mostly reading books to nieces and nephews :)

As for the laundry area, I'm hoping all the 'mess' will fit on the countertop next to the dryer...along with hamper storage underneath.

The pantry and mudroom would be bigger (if I had more space) since we live on a farm and can get snowed in for a few weeks at a time. I also plan to freeze more (and maybe learn how to can) now that I'm doing more gardening!

Didn't you plan a range and an extra oven? Which is why you had the fridge and oven swapped before?

Oh! I must have missed that. If that's so, please listen to Rhome and put the DW on the other side of the sink. You can put a supplementary trash can in the mud/laundry room.

Yes, but the second oven (with the range)would be used much less often than the wall oven. More for overflow baking, roasting meats or broiling. All my main baking would be with the raised oven, which is easier to reach...and also easier on my back.

I don't think I'd have the dishwasher and second oven open at the same time...since I usually cook and my husband helps with the dishes, after the meal. When I'm baking, I do the dishes as I go, but I'd be using the other oven.

Plllog- The other main living area is oriented to the southeast (like the dining room) and the seating area off the kitchen is oriented southwest. (Our road is on an angle, so the farmhouse is, as well). The master bedroom has windows on the northeast and northwest, but the bathrooms and laundry have windows on the back, or northwest side.

As for the pantry, it's more expensive, but I'm thinking of using upper cabinets with lower cabinet/drawer storage. The lower cabinets will hopefully have pull out shelves. Since I don't have a lot of cabinetry in the kitchen, I'm hoping I can afford cabinets in the pantry. The pantry sink is the old farmhouse kitchen sink (single bowl) with the drainboard on each side...perfect for cleaning veggie and herbs or for arranging flowers.

Good idea about the deck/screened porch :)

AHHHH... now I see the need for a large pantry space. My brain isn't oriented to getting snowed in anymore! :-) I you want affordable cabs, I suggest you look at IKEA. Very very affordable and adaptable. I think you'd be happy with their storage options. Your sink in the pantry sounds perfect for you!

It's extremely nice. I would reconsider the corner fireplace. (if that's what I'm seeing...)
It is not well-placed. It would be way better to :
a) put it on the center of the wall where the picture window is shown; then it's visible as a focal point/axis from the kitchen. Locate windows either side.
b) the other corner of the room, closer to the mud room. Would yield extra space, you could essentially reclaim the short wall back where the FP is now. It's visible from kitchen.
c) Or the inside corner from where it is now; at least it's not competing with the picture window, and it could have a chair on either side. Loveseat stays where it is now. Net gain of one easy chair.
As has been remarked- the mudroom and pantry are a great combo.
Casey

plllog said:

My suggestion for the screen porch is that you have it designed so that you can do just the floor...in other words a deck...and add the walls and roof later. That would probably cost more than just a plain deck, but should save a lot in the short term, and save in the long term for when you can afford to finish it out.

We did just that last year. We are very happy to have transitioned our fantasy screen porch to a future screen porch--even though it's still an FSP and may remain so for quite some time.Based on our experience, here are a few things to keep in mind if you go that route:

If you use decking with gaps (much less money than tongue and groove), have the builder install screening under the floor and on top of the joists--this is for future bug protection.

Be sure to plan for the snow loading on the future roof. The structure that supports your deck/future screened porch will have to be really really beefy. Much stronger than a regular deck!

If you do it as we did, you won't be able to have the final inspection and close out your building permit until you have finished the screen porch. You can have a wide open deck with no walls or railings temporarily (as we do), but it sure won't pass inspection!

I hope this is helpful. I've been reading your plans and the excellent advice on your inspiration picture and all your layouts, and I'm glad finally to have something to contribute.

Oh, right! Lavendar, I'm so sorry to be slow on the ball today. You're on a farm! I'm so used to thinking of town or suburb. The separate sections facing different directions thing works fine on farms where you basically have the areas all facing out, rather than trying to make them face/balance each other.

I think you're right about the DW and the secondary oven in the range, given the other ways you said you want it to work. The pantry cupboards take care of the window problem, and I think, long term, it's worth putting the money there and doing the screened porch as you can.

Re pantry rollout shelves (ROTS), I waited until I could unpack some crucial things to figure out what heights I needed for my pantry. I had measured everything else. I could have tried going to the store and measuring, but it was hard to know without seeing the cabinetry in place. BUT, the cabinetmaker's foreman installed the doors as a matter of course. Mistake. It would have been much better to determine the placement of the ROTS first and then fit the hinges in wherever they'd work. It came out fine in the end, but is different than I would have done it otherwise.

One other pantry caution--waist level, that is, the area between lower and upper, is prime area for pantry storage. Perhaps that'll be perfect for you, especially if you want to use some of your small appliances right in the pantry on the counter (perfect space for a vacuum sealer!). Just mentioning it because of losing the counter as storage space or having it become a clutter magnet.

Yep. This one looks good.

Oooh, good idea! I would like to get a food dehydrator and that would be a good place to store it...along with a vacuum sealer. That would be great, too. I'm thinking the storage area on the right side of the bench (under the window, in the laundry room) would be a great place for floor to ceiling cabinets.

I started my kitchen garden this year (it's a work in progress) but I'm hoping to grow more of our own food, in the future!

Still- Thanks for the info on the FSB :)

I think I'm going to shorten the wall, between the porch (sitting area) and kitchen, so it's more balanced. So, about a 3' to 3 1/2' wall on each side of the porch. It would make the work table more balanced with the seating area.

As for the fireplace...I'm still debating between a woodstove and fireplace...but I like it in the corner, so the heat goes out towards the kitchen and laundry...in case the power goes out.

Casey- Thanks for the comments on the fireplace. I started thinking about it...and I agree with you. While I don't want to block any windows, I think the fireplace would be better in the opposite corner...where I could put a little flat screen TV above it.

I wasn't going to put in a TV, but my mom had a good point. Nice to keep an eye on the football games during the holidays (for my husband and friends) and also very handy to slip in a DVD for the younger nieces and nephews...to listen to while they color or take a break from baking :)

So I did a little white out (it's almost gone, sorry) and moved the fireplace and evened out the walls, between the kitchen and porch/seating area. (Sorry if this is harder to read, but I was sketching in my lighting plan.)

Thank you for all of your help and advice. Any other comments are always appreciated. I hope I'm getting closer to 'the plan'.

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If there's no sink in an island, then I still think the DW needs to be moved. It's not just that it's in the corner or that it's near the cooktop/range, it's that it's in the middle of the Prep Zone and will be a major obstacle if one person is cleaning up while another is prepping and/or cooking or if someone wants to put something in or take something out of the DW while others are prepping and/or cooking.

I can't tell where the trash pullout is, but I would either put it where the current DW is (my recommendation) or put it b/w the oven and range. The first location is convenient to all three primary work zones. The second location is convenient to the the Cooking Zone, less so to the Prep Zone, and even less to the Cleanup Zone. In both locations, it won't cause outsiders to cross the Cooking Zone to get to it. In the first location, it might cause someone prepping to step out of the way, but it's smaller than a DW and won't be as big a deal as a DW.

Regarding heating with solid fuel, mind your analytic geometry! There are many fireplaces and woodstoves sold that have straight lines. This is not efficient! If you have one with a parabolic back/sides (rounded like a satellite dish), like the old brick and clay fireplaces, and the grate is positioned at the focal point of the parabola, the heat that goes to the walls will be reflected to the front opening, rather than bouncing around inside the firebox. You'll have more room heat per log.

Also, if you have a heating woodstove, the TV might be really unhappy above it. Heat rises. Electronics don't like heat.

Plllog- I have a great fireplace in the living room...I just thought it would be fun to have a much smaller one in the kitchen/seating area. I'd probably put in gas, if it was available, out here.

Originally, I was thinking of a woodstove, but I think it might be too dangerous with the visiting kids and my kitties.

Lavender, I have been watching you layout progress and think you have come up with a winner! One question? Why not put the fireplace/stove in the opposite corner from where you have it now? You would then be able to see it from the kitchen and the heat would radiate toward the kitchen and dining room as well. (the outside wall/corner by the pantry)

You would also be able to see the fire from the kitchen as well as the TV. It would give you more of a feeling of having the fireplace in the kitchen that way, and I know you were hoping for that. The couch could go across the other end of the room and a grouping of 2 chairs and table could go in front of the window. I think you could basically have the same amount of seating that way?

Lavender, in case it didn't pique your interest, do check out this thread. Boxerpups posted a particularly non-farmish butler's pantry, but it has a sink at the end of a U like yours, with counters and cabinetry on the sides, and it's very pretty. Just thought you might like to see it. :)

Plllog- Those are beautiful pantries! Mine won't be nearly as fancy, but thanks for the link :)

Mary lu- Thank you for the encouraging words. I'm still working on the placement of that darn fireplace...and still thinking about a tiny woodstove, too. I go back and forth, depending on the current weather forecast. (LOL) I know that sounds bad, but everytime it looks like the power may go out, I start wishing for the woodstove, again.

I need to talk to our friend (who's a GC) and ask him about the chimney. It might be better to put it on one of the outer corners or wall, to get it further from the roof line. Too close to the higer roof...and I belive you have to have a much taller chimney.

Oh, and thank you all for the dishwasher comments. I'm still working on that, too :)

After much debating back and forth, I decided to do the intelligent thing...and call an expert. After talking to someone about types of woodstoves and clearances...I'm confident that a little cobalt blue jotul is going to be perfect in my space.

They're small, don't need a lot of clearance and will fit in perfectly with my design. The burner on top, also allows you to heat a tea kettle or can of food, when the power goes out! That's what I've wanted all along, so I'm pretty excited that the cost was much lower than I initially thought...and they install :)

Anyway, it's still going to be a while before I can start the remodel, but this is one big decision made. The wood stove will go in the outside corner, between the two window walls...so back to the furniture layout of the first plan.

Thank you all for your input...and I'm still working on the dishwasher placement.

Here's the revised plan :)

The woodstove is in the outer corner and the porch is just a little bit longer. I wanted to center the loveseat and the windows with the kitchen table. It also gives me more clearance for the woodstove.

I got rid of the back hall and changed the bathroom a bit...in the hopes of saving some money to put towards another area of the house.

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Here's an overall plan of the farmhouse remodel. Sorry, if it's a little hard to read, but I was putting in lighting and fans, to show my mom tomorrow :)

There's a larger main bath, but no master bath...so I'm hoping to have enough money left over for the screened porch in back...and the hot tub off the master bedroom. (That's the one thing my husband really wants, besides his 'man cave' down in the basement!)

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Nice woodstove!

I'm not a bathroom expert, but couldn't you turn the vanity and put it by the door? Then you could move the toilet over a little and have more room for your tub. Maybe even a cabinet. If you're not going to have double sinks, I think losing a foot of counter and being smart about organization might be worth it.