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catlover5

Layout help please for small budget kitchen

14 years ago

Please give me your thoughts on my layout for my small budget minded kitchen. I can move the plumbing and gas lines but the footprint, 110x101, has to stay the same. I was leery to move the sink from under the window which is where it is now but want to add a 24 in dw (I have no DW now) and since DH said stove has to be moved to outside wall so we can vent it (we have no vent now) I could not fit in a 24 in dw next to the sink. I was totally against a corner sink but saw the 42 in corner sink front with the double door and realized I could have a larger sink. The software did not allow me to choose a 42 in corner sink front with the double door so I used the 36 in corner cab and put two 3 in fillers on either side to make up the 42 in. I realize that that corner cab will be out a few more inches. I was trying to fit the fridge in the L on the DW wall but then found out, from this forum, that you must put a cab between the corner sink and DW; otherwise, you can't access or am wedged in. The fridge will go in the corner of the two walls that have just the doors, no cabs. I was against moving the sink from the window but if I don't do the corner sink and put the sink on the adjacent wall, I can have a 24 in dw next to the sink and a 36 corner cab with a lazy susan. I wanted to stay away from the blind corner cab with the half susan type pull out. Sorry for all the words . . I probably left out important information but would welcome any comments, good and bad! Thank you.

What I have now:

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Corner sink layout

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Sink on interior 101 inch wall

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Comments (11)

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Sink bases waste space. Corner cabinets don't always use space wisely either. A corner sink base only works if it's a small sink and you don't really plan to put much of anything in the cabinet itself.

    For those reasons, your best layout is with the corner lazy susan and the sink and DW on the same run. It also give you the maximum space between the sink and stove, and that's the most used real estate in any kitchen. And, although you'll be facing a corner when prepping, the window will give you some daylight and a view. And that 36" lazy susan cabinet will store all of your pots and pans and some small appliances.

    With a DW, your dirty dishes should go straight in the DW, so a large single sink is more than sufficient for the rest of your needs. If your cabinet line has one, I'd recommend a 27" cabinet base and a standard 25" sink. That will be a budget choice. If your line doesn't have a 27" base, use a 30" sink base, and try to use the extra space for a small trash pull out under the sink.

    Another reason for the lazy susan corner and sink on the straight run is that it will let you use laminate for your counters. Laminate with a corner sink is a damaged counter waiting to happen. The seams needed to do that just don't survive the prolonged contact with water. When you do a corner sink, it really pays to do some type of stone or solid surface counter because you won't be replacing it in 2 years like you would a laminate in that situation.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I agree with GreenDesigns, I like Plan B better. If the stove has to vent to the outside (?) then you lose the window for washing dishes but you'll spend less time doing that anyway with a dishwasher. :)

    My first house had a "brand new" kitchen with corner sink and, yes, dishwasher placed flush to one side of it. So to add soap, you had to close the dw, open the cabinet, get the soap, close the cabinet, open the dw, add the soap, close the dw, open the cabinet, put the soap away, close the cabinet. Phew!

    I also found the corner sink annoying to work with, although mine was smaller than the one you're considering.

    Good luck!

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I like plan 2 better for all the reasons green designs enumerated -- especially in that it gives you a nice counter run with a bonus view for prepping.

    Is there a reason you show pot drawers to the right of the dw in plan 1 but no pot drawers in plan 2? If you can do them, pot drawers in plan 2 would be great beside the stove.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I like plan 2 better for reasons already stated.

    With all due respect to GreenDesigns, though, I disagree with this statement, "Laminate with a corner sink is a damaged counter waiting to happen." We have laminate counters and a corner sink. One seam is in the middle of the sink front and the other runs from the right back corner of the sink to the wall. We've never had any problems in the 17 1/2 years since we built this home. We've had to re-caulk around the drop-in sink but the laminate seams have never been an issue. Based on what I hear from friends and neighbors with corner sinks and laminate counters, my experience isn't unusual. I'm not saying it's not a possibility but it hasn't been my experience or that of others.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Plan B for all reasons stated.

    In both plans you have a cupboard drawn to the right of the stove instead of drawers. Is there a reason? Drawers are just so much more efficient and easier to use. IMO.

    What are you putting to the left of the sink? How much space do you have there before the lazy susan.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    My vote's for Plan B, too, Catlover. I always want a great place to prep and cook, where I spend most of my time in the kitchen, and that one has it. Very nice.

    BTW, yes, yes, yes, on as many drawers as you can find room for (minus one compact door cabinet for vertical storage). If you have to save money, I really recommend you do it elsewhere. Plywood counters for a while, maybe.

    Put drawers under the sink, too. Store the Drano and other grotty and infrequently used janitorial items in a more appropriate location. Use that prize real estate for stuff you need available all the time, like, oh, dishes, colanders, salad spinner, ice trays, pots and pans, baking trays, and so on. Clean, nice storage. Super handy for unloading the DW, too.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thank you all. I despise the small corner sink in the 36 in cab although I have never had the opportunity to put dirty dishes into a DW so perhaps I am over-reacting. Although there are DH and myself in HD putting dishes into a corner sink to see how it feels. On the other hand, I have never had the opportunity to look out the window while doing dishes either and while we live in a community where neighbors are on top of each other, I do actually have a beautiful view of the sky through the trees. Decisions, decisions! Yes, I could do drawers to the right of the stove instead of the 30 in 1db cab but I feel, without experience of having had any drawers in any previous kitchen, that I would be able to stack and stack (hence cram) more pots/pans into the 1db cab than be limited to the height of the drawers as far as stackability, if that makes sense.

    Blfenton, between the lazy susan and sink is a 9 inch pullout cab. I thought DH could rig up some sort of garbage insert for the 9 in cab or it can be used for oils/spices/canned items and I can put the garbage under the sink which I am hoping to get a sink that has the drain off to the side and back to allow more room in the base. Although I know a 15 or 18 in cab is preferred for a garb pullout, no room!, unless I go down on the sink base and/or go down to an 18 in DW, which has been another long episode of decision making.

    I am hoping to get a stone countertop if that has any effect on the opinion of a corner sink although I do also like the look of a wood countertop with white painted wood cabs although I am not sure how that will hold up.

    I am working on a 2nd layout which is essentially a reverse of Plan B that leaves the sink in front of the window but keeps the stove on the interior wall.

    Decisions, decisions. I don't know how anyone actually gets a finished kitchen. It really might be easier to move.

    Thank you.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Catlover, if you measure the inches of counter available by measuring the front edge you stand and work at, you'll see that a corner sink plan has offers less space to stand and work up front at, shifting the lost space to the corner behind the sink. It's always a matter of choosing the set of tradeoffs that works for you. Maybe you could mock up the corner/window sink layout you really like and play-work there. If it feels right to you, that's the only opinion that matters.

    BTW, our sink is a single, 29" wide inside. I can drop a baking sheet, soup pot, 2 or 3 saucepans, dinner dishes, and utensils all out of sight in its 9-1/2 inch depth and have plenty of room to spare. It doesn't sound like you'd want to do anything like that, but I offer it for perspective. We have a medium-size kitchen, and it's fine, but in a small kitchen I'd probably look for maybe a 25-27 incher, still deep and wonderfully accepting, and considering mounting it on a 24" cabinet if my base cabinet layout would benefit from that. You didn't mention my comments, including on under-sink use, in your acknowledgments so I presume you're traditional-minded on that point, but in that case--IMHO--the smaller the space given to that use the better. An extra 6" added to a 12- or 24-incher on one side, for instance, can be a terrific present to oneself.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Rosie, my apologies, I did see your post but I was replying to the emails not realizing that they were not getting to the intended parties. How does one get drawers under the sink since there is plumbing which at some point may leak? DH and I went to HD and saw a corner sink which I measured and it didn't seem that small (I would have to check my notes but I think it was 25 in) but at that store we didn't have a cookie sheet and what I call grandma's soup pot which I inherited to judge the size. I would love to lay a cookie sheet or roasting pan flat to wash. I have a 33 inch sink base now with a double sink but I cannot wash anything large FLAT. I despise that and only want a single bowl for my next sink and a rectangle, not a D, although I would love a farmhouse sink. For a 29 in sink, how big is the base cab? I must admit that DH washes most of the dishes, pots and pans and pet food bowls as I do the cooking but I do wash as I go since, as he says, I like to use every utensil in the drawer. However, he does not always clean everything before the evening is out and it's a bit embarrasing when family and friends stop by and the kitchen is not clean so a deep sink would be a godsend!But I digress. How do you put a 25 or 27 in sink in a 24 in cab? And what do you do with the DW next to it since that's metal and can't be scooped or massaged into place? And the drawers . . . everyone here loves the drawers but aren't you limited to the height of the drawer as far as what you can put in it? Thank you.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    One pot does not a kitchen make. For my use of a soup pot, it would be down in the basement as it is too big for every day use. And yes, I would convert as much as possible to drawers - they are that much better! A lot of people something called pot drawers that do have tall drawers.

    The rim of the sink is 25", the actual sink is something less. It used to be referred to as cramming - using the largest bowl that could possibly fit, even if you had to slightly alter the cabinet by slicing a little off the top.

    Plenty of sinks have slanted sides. I don't think you can cram a 27" sink into a 24" cabinet unless it has unusually wide rims or is a drop-in.

    Where plumbing is located somewhat depends on the climate. We are not permitted to have plumbing in an outside wall, so all sinks in front of windows HERE will have plumbing that comes up from a basement - unless a person uses the original pipes that happen to be in an outside wall.

    But, what can be done is place the pipes to one side or as close to the back as possible to leave room for a pullout to one side or a drawer that isn't the entire depth of the cabinet.

    If I had your kitchen, I'd trade for an 18" dishwasher and a 24" range.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I just had an image of you wandering around with a large large soup pot. It actually looks just like my biggest one, which I keep in my office instead of the baseement. :)

    As BMore says, there is a limit to how much you can "cram." However, where 2 cabinets meet, you have the thickness of 2 sidewalls. (On both sides in some kitchens, although not yours.) A normal sink, undermount or set-in, is "hung" from the counter, anyway, so part of the side walls can be shaved out to fit a larger sink in. Since the walls hold the counter up, though, you need to leave "enough" to support. Again, though, you can add thin but strong metal brackets to the insides of those walls for additional support that nobody'll ever see. Child's play for a handyman.

    This kind of thing may sound complicated, but it's not. It's a little task for any skilled worker and can return TREMENDOUS benefits. When you're working with a smaller space, it's important to find ways to fit more in than the standard one-way-for-all methods offer. Also, it's important to note that some salesmen and contractors may do a bunch of **-covering, or work-avoiding by telling you something can't or shouldn't be done when it is, in fact, done all the time. Our sink is "crammed" and nobody knows, not even me because I forgot about it a long time ago.

    Regarding drawers versus shelves, don't forget that in order to reach back and get stuff on shelves you need to leave empty areas for your arm to reach in and to shove stuff around in to get an item out, plus empty space above for lifting an item over others. Drawers these days are almost always full-extension (don't buy anything else--they're that good), so you pull them all the way out and see and reach everything. You can stack pots MORE than on a typical shelf because you don't need to leave that waste space overhead. Also, your stacks of pots can be right next to each other--no need to leave empty space to push them around to get to them.

    As for under the sink, BMore said how to do it. Regarding water leaks, drawers just lift right out whenever the under-sink pipes need to be gotten to--unlike 95% of a home's plumbing which, such as in our bathrooms runs from the water heater to the sewer, is totally inaccessible, with long runs and many joints hidden behind and above expensive tiled walls, delicate wood paneling, and thousands of dollars of cheap drywall.

    I might do an 18" DW but for myself would want a 30" drop-in stovetop and 30" oven, which both fit into a standard-depth counter and don't stick out. A glass cooktop can also double as counter space and the oven for pot storage. This is what I chose. Actually a 36" cooktop, but that's just a detail.

    BTW, it was my son who pointed out that I could fit in more cabinet storage by putting the 36" drawer stack to the side of the 36" stovetop and a 30" drawer stack under the stovetop (the oven goes elsewhere, where I don't have to stand in front of it when it's hot). This shuffling around allowed me room on one side for an 18" stack instead of 15". Since all the drawer lines and finishes merge in one continuous sweep, it still looks good too.

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