I think if I was planning an orange bed, I would want to consider some of these English 'ladies'...

'Lady of Shalott'... 'Lady Emma Hamilton'... 'The Lady Gardener'...

perhaps too 'Comte de Champagne' and 'Jayne Austin'...

Ghislaine de Feligonde has quite gentle growth..I wouldn't think you'd have much trouble with her...is very long flowering and might make a good centre piece for you. Mine is currently about 5 foot high and 6 foot wide and easy to manage although it's only going to get bigger as I've not had it long... growing on trellis...
best of luck...

Brass Band is gorgeous if you can get it. I've been lusting for one (or several) ever since Hoovb posted pictures of hers. Absolutely luscious color.

What about Pat Austin? She is the right colour and has the fruitiest perfume. Just like sun warmed, ripe mangoes.
Daisy

{{gwi:2121873}}

No orange bed should be considered complete without either Kordes' Brillant or Prominent, aka Korp. They are about the same nonfading color. Another floribunda in a bright orange that you might be able to get is City of Belfast. You might want to look at that one also.

Bumping this.

In the end, I did get Ghislaine de Feligonde, which is currently green and growing despite it being midwinter - it bloomed on and off all summer and I love it just much now as when I first saw it.

I also got Lady Emma Hamilton, which has not been particularly impressive, but I will give it time. I lean more and more away from Austins - I am slowly shedding them as my knowledge of what likes my conditions increases.

This bed ended up with R to L as you face it, Perle d'Or (awaiting planting) on the edge as part of the pond edging, next to Clemetina Carbonieri (awaiting planting), followed by Mutabilis which has been amazing all summer and autumn and is still utterly healthy and growing despite lows of 30 deg f. The pond is a new addition, hence not being mentioned before.

At the back, kind of espaliered on the fence, R to L, Lady Emma, Fighting Temeraire (huge blooms, pretty healthy for an Austin) Ghislaine, Fred Loads (not hugely impressive) then Alexander (very blackspot prone, very unimpressive)

In the row in front, I have Carolyn Knight, three unknown orange floribundas, then Summer Song.

I don't love this set up. Seeing the healthy, almost evergreen foliage on my tea roses, in fact, makes me very dissatisfied with this set up.

I am contemplating rooting out the floribundas, and possibly the two Austins, and replacing them with a couple of the more 'sunset' teas/chinas. Obviously, I will likely have to trade some consistency of orange colouration in exchange for consistency of bloom and handsome foliage - but that's a trade I can live with.

I am interested in Archiduc Joseph (ex Beales), Comtesse du Cayla, possibly the Hooks' Anna Olivier - not sure if it would be vivid enough, or maybe her sport Lady Roberts, General Galleni, Comtesse Festetics Hamilton, maybe Hugo Roller?

I am thinking of getting Marie Nabonnand, to take over the far back end of the bed, so the vivid pink/cerise tones in some of the above would be a OK by me, but I do want the warmer orange/red/yellow elements too.

Basically everywhere in the UK is sold out of most of the above so this is broody wishful thinking right now, but I am contemplating a Roseraie Du Désert order for later in the spring.

So, thoughts? Sizes? Health? Things that are bs sensitive do get it here, though I've seen nary a sign of bs on Mutabilis, Mme Antoine Mari, Vesuve, Gen. Schablikine, Miss Lowe's, Lady H, or SdMLV (which did threaten to mildew, but not actually mildew). I think Gruss and Teplitz had a few spotty leaves late on. I don't know if that's enough information to to make predictions with or not.

Is there a rose I ought to look at that I haven't mentioned? I could widen my search net to other EU rose providers - I am contemplating trying Italian nurseries for Mrs B. R. Cant.

...you might find that Roseraie du Desert are out of stock with some of those... I put an order in recently for 6 roses and they didn't have any of them available, so you might have to wait until next season... Also, there are good reasons why we don't see some of those in this country, like Mrs B.R. Cant.... they're no good here in our weather unless you can provide a greenhouse or conservatory for them, that's the only place I might try that one and a few others you mention. You won't even find it at Mottisfont...

...there are so many nurseries on the Continent, I've been looking at some recently and it's so tempting to order but I'm really out of room now... at least you know those from Germany or Holland would be pretty tough... and if I had the room, I'd order 100 roses that I've never heard of...

fduk, I am hesitant to mention this because you sound disenchanted with the DA roses you've had, but I recently saw some rather gorgeous photos on a blog (no, not a DA blog) of 'Ghislaine' paired with 'Leander'. The link doesn't show the pairing that I remember, but does show 'Leander'.

I don't grow 'Leander', and am not a huge fan of DA roses in general, but the color ranges of Leander did mirror those of 'GdF' quite attractively. And that's all I know, really...

Another rose with flowers that might fit into your color scheme is the Polyantha 'Léonie Lamesch'... of course, I have no idea if either rose would do well for you, but if you're like me, any excuse for looking at rose photos is welcome.

Good luck,

Virginia

Marlorena, in some ways, I think 'Mrs. B R Cant' may have been a case of the right rose at the wrong time when she was introduced to English gardeners. She was described as vigorous and hardy by an English gardening mag. in 1910, but she doesn't seem to have ever really caught on there.

Perhaps she wasn't HT-ish enough or otherwise looked unfashionable, perhaps she wasn't a good forcing rose, or perhaps as you suggest, she really wasn't a good grower there. I didn't see much evidence that she was 'marketed' in the way some other roses of the time were. She's so very little mentioned in old rose literature, that I wonder if she really had a "fair trial" in her home country...

She is certainly popular in the Southern U.S. and at least some parts of Oz. If I recall correctly (and I may not), 'MBRC' has been mentioned here as a Tea that is a hardy choice for zone-pushers living outside of the traditional zones for Teas.

Since there is a present-day incarnation of the BR Cant Nursery, I wonder if anyone there can explain why they don't sell 'MBRC'. Did you ever happen to ask while researching it?

Virginia

A sunset rose I adore is Westerland. I grew it as a climber, but apparently it can be grown as a shrub. And the foliage was healthy here, where BS is a problem.

Trish

A "must always have" peach rose for me is the climber Crepuscule. Healthy, blooms all the time with luscious peach blooms. Don't know if you can get it there......but it is certainly worth the search.

Judith

...what a gorgeous rose!... and Crepuscule would certainly be a better choice for the ''far back end of a bed'', than Marie Nabonnand, lovely though this one is, but as an own root it needs mollycoddling with winter protection, containerised and disbudded at least for the first season, before planting out [says someone who did the opposite]... it would be much better grafted..

Virginia,

...as you know, I'm all for experimenting and in most cases I would say ''go for it'', but with this one it's difficult and I expect costly to obtain, only from southern Europe, which gives some clue, and I just think a word of warning should be given if fduk perhaps has unrealistic ambitions with this rose... it's easy to be influenced by what we see growing elsewhere in the world...

...if it was more readily available I would already have it - just to see for myself - but it seems just too much trouble for what it may be worth.... Tea roses can be hardy and vigorous here like a number of exotics in this island climate, but are they also beautiful and floriferous?... at the time they want to be, our weather is so often dull, windy, damp and cool that they cannot show their worth [unlike Rhododendrons]... and I can understand how they fell out of favour - if they ever were - to be replaced with HT's, which generally take no notice of our conditions... even roses like 'Le Vesuve' and 'Mme Antoine Mari', I think are collector's items here, there are hundreds of roses more suitable for a grand display,... only the curious [like me] would plant these instead of say, 'Golden Celebration' or 'Princess Alexandra of Kent'...

...I'll send a note to Cants and ask them about their rose. I wonder if anyone there today actually remembers it?... we shall see....

...I'd like to see a photo of it in a garden in say the PNW part of the U.S. if anyone there has it...?

Marlorena, I understand that there's a cost/benefit analysis, here and the odds are in favor of 'MBRC' having costs exceeding the benefits of her repatriation.

I was just speculating about why she is so popular, vigorous and hardy elsewhere, yet seemed to go nowhere fast in her homeland, so if you do hear from Cant's about 'MBRC', I hope you'll report in.

It seems that the Channel Islands were popular places for Teas at one time, but have no idea if any survive. Have you ever been?

Judith, your 'Crepuscule' is a vision of loveliness. Thanks for sharing your photo.

Virginia

Happy to pass the word on Crepuscule! I also grow Leander......love the color and the scent. It has been in the ground coming on 3 years - I had heard it didn't bloom that much, and though it hasn't covered the arching bush in blooms, it does bloom enough to suit me and blooms throughout the season. Looking forward to a big spring flush, and I love the scent. One in a pot I am planting next to it is Lucetta - a similar rose. It is doing fine in its pot, but needs to be in the ground and I have high hopes for it. I like a lot of the older DA roses. Mary Rose is a workhorse for me. Would like to try some of the older ones. Also have Westerland in a pot that needs planting - the blooms are gorgeous. Apricot roses are my favorite!

Judith

I like 'Westerland' too, alameda.... it grows well over this way...

Virginia,

...yes I'm curious too about that, as to why it never seemed to take off here... anyway, I've just heard back from Cants roses - they got back to me quicker than expected.

This is their reply, which didn't totally answer my questions...

''Thank you for your enquiry via our website. It is many decades since we grew this variety. The last Grower in the U.K was Peter Beales. Whilst the rose seems still to be well thought of particularly in the U.S.A. and Australia, really we and most U.K. growers have moved on to more modern varieties.''

..make of that what you will, they also provided links to a couple of nurseries in Europe that stock it, should I be interested.

...I'm also trying to find out whether Tea roses are popular on the Isles of Scilly here. I've been to Jersey on the Channel Islands, but I cannot recall seeing roses, but then I wasn't looking for them at the time [long time ago]...

Ho hum, I didn't intend to be so controversial!
Marlorena, I do appreciate the note of caution, and I promise I'm not about to dash out and grub up any roses - or even rush order or even attempt to rush order, which is what I meant, but was apparently too elliptical about when talking about them being out of stock. Realistically, if I do go ahead with making changes, it'll be a case of growing on the new roses in pots till they've some size on them, so I'm not in any rush.

As to garden utilty, well, we'll see. I grow rhodies, I love them and l have a dozen or so, but I don't want a garden entirely of them. I am happy to grow some things purely for the one thing they do well - frex my peonies.

What I like about the teas I have so far is not just the blooms, but how they look when out of bloom - I like the graceful foliage and the branching habits, and I like them as shrubs in a way that I don't like my floribundas and hts and Austins. I'm not expecting the floriferous abundance that we see from these roses in sunnier climes - healthy smaller shrubs will be fine by me.

It's an interesting (and impressively rapid, excellent customer service!) reply that Cants gave but it's almost exactly what I expected - in essence tastes changed, and Cants changed the roses they stock in order to meet them, which is fair enough. Cants don't sell any old roses, so I wouldn't expect them to sell even MBRC. The 20th C saw the the fall and fall of teas worldwide, not just here but even where they do spectacularly well, so it wasn't just that there were better roses. And even that is a trifle debatable - I mean look at HP's, beautiful as they are.

Tea roses are a niche here in the UK, and I personally suspect that what has survived in commerce here probably doesn't have a one to one correspondence with what is or can be a decent garden rose - I think chance has a fair bit to it too. Which leads me to think is that all I can do is experiment - some experiments are going to be duds, but that's the nature of the process.

Judith, that Crepuscule is mind bogglingly beautiful, but even Beales' estimates (which err on the small I've found) suggest it might be too big.

Jackie, your Rosette Delizy! Holy cow what a rose. I knew there was one I'd seen but was forgetting. I think these are the kind of pictures Marlorena so rightly warns against letting influence me.

Virginia, that Leander is handsome and is one of those DAs that seem to dissapear rapidly from the market, I wonder why? It seems to be a bit random. Leonie Lamesch is a new one - and rather attractive, and I don't have many polyanthas. H'mm.

Trish, I actually originally considered Westerland - it does have an almost universally good reputation and it's easy to obtain but it doesn't seduce my heart, so as to speak.

It's actually a bit of a wrench in a way, admitting that this plan just hasn't worked - the habits of the roses there just aren't quite right to my eye and it's a little frustrating (and definitely a first world problem if ever there was one!) because I'm sure it's me not the roses - other people would be very happy with them I'm sure...

I think you are correct to try and come up with a garden look that you like - it is your garden, after all! I agree that the old roses, teas among them, are much more graceful in their growing habit than many modern roses, and make great garden shrubs even when not in bloom. In my garden they stay evergreen. We actually have some that were planted by my DH's great grandparents - must be at least 90 -100 years old (the GGPs started gardening in my garden in 1905). I have been adding more for the last 26 years. It sounds like you already have several teas in your garden which like it there - that is the key. Happy roses, happy gardener. Of course, not all teas are alike, or like the same conditions. Experimenting is the only way to find out what will like your garden. It took me several years of disappointments to figure that out - when I started gardening I had no idea what I was doing, but had suddenly acquired a 1/3rd acre garden with old trees, bushes, roses, bulbs, etc. - every Spring was exciting! I have figured out that what was there had survived over the years, while the plants less suited to these conditions were long gone. Many tea roses had survived with practically no care whatever for at least the previous 30 years from when we moved in.

Please keep us posted on what you decide to get, and how they do, etc. Pictures would be great next Spring!

Jackie

A comment on Crepuscule.....although it can get very large, its branches are pretty spindly and it can be easily controlled, not thorny either. It can be whacked back if getting too large, but I have one on a metal arch that has been there for years and is easily managed. Matter of fact, it is blooming now. It does not get big fat unmanageable canes that takes a chain saw to prune. Another reason to love this beautiful rose.......I am a cheerleader for it because it has so many good qualities and I don't see much written about it. Just wish it had a scent......

Judith

Fduk.... oh that's ok, nothing like a bit of controversy.... but don't let me put you off, I do hope you get the rose, I think it's Rose Branchi that has it... it will be great fun to experiment and hope it proves me wrong, I would love to see it growing somewhere here, it's not a rose I've ever seen in any of the gardens I've visited around the country...

...I wonder why Beales dropped it, but they've dropped dozens of roses in recent years for commercial reasons - but they still stock some Tea roses, so, who knows?.

.. best of luck with your arrangements....

If you're still looking for orange roses, and you don't mind HT's, Rosemary Harkness is a delightful rose.....

Check HMF comments for more details....

Grace DA is very pretty. I saw it growing in England 2011 looking great.

I am also doing an orange bed which will also include apricot to yellow roses. I recently had some trees cleared in my yard and now have a big open bed. I have many of the ones you have mentioned. I am also including some violet to purple roses as a contrast. Here is my list (it's a large bed)

Belmont Orange

Molineux

Carding Mill

Christopher Marlowe

Munstead Wood

Sunny Sundays (new HT)

Lady of Shallot

Graham Thomas

Ascot (this is coming from Palantine this spring)

Areuthsa

Lady Hillingdon

Topaz Jewel

Dark Desire

Lucille Ball

Ghislaine de Feligonde

Playboy

Tropicana

Rosette de Lizzy

About Face

St. Patrick

Jerry Jennings

Crepescule

The bed is wide and slightly sloped, so I'm going to put the big roses on top (so they can hopefully cascade down) and the smaller and HTs on the edges. Of course my climate is different from yours. I've had Crepescule before and it climbed up a tree, but as was said on the thread, it can be managed. If it's not on a structure, it's like an octopus putting out long canes that can reach out 10 feet.

H'mmmm. So lots of votes for Crepuscule. I confess, for some reason the name puts me off, and I dont really know why, but perhaps I ought to just suck it up.
Buford, that space sounds amazing and so does that list of roses!
I am actually wondering, I have Celine Forrestier coming for an arch that sits in the space between the yellow and orange beds. I'm wondering if perhaps Celine could grow as a freestanding shrub with some support from a fence behind it and Crepuscule could have the arch instead. The other issue there is that the arch is definitely sunnier than the yellow bed spot, and I've heard Celine can blackspot in less than full sun.

I just want to say that I love my Crepescule!

Molly

In French, Crepuscule means twilight or dusk. It is so beautiful that I wouldn't care what it was named. Plan to add a few more this spring.

Judith

If you heard it pronounced properly Cray-pes-cule, not pronounced like a pimple, you will like it better.

fduk, I'm not familiar with Celestine, but it's worth a try.

Crépuscule's pronunciation :-)

..another great find Bob....I think it sounds much better in French...

I recently heard the correct pronunciation of Devoniensis, which sounded lovely but I can't remember it now.

I came upon the French pronunciation of Devoniensis, I prefer the 2nd one:

Click on the icon.

However as it is a Uk rose, you can find a pronunciation here.

Click on the icon:

I need to start the french lessons I have been thinking about.

Crepuscule is one of my favorite roses, but I have been told it is a rose that thrives on heat. I have the heat so don't know what it would be like in a cooler or damper climate. I have seen absolutely magnificent specimens growing in Te Anau, New Zealand, so I suspect that what it really likes is lots and lots of light. If you decide to plant it, I would go for full sun and maybe reflected heat from a wall or patio.

I also second the recommendation for Westerland. As water restrictions have encouraged me to reduce the number of roses I grow, I found myself removing many of my more modern roses. But Westerland is just too fine a rose to discard. So healthy and so beautiful! I get what you said about it not speaking to your heart, but I suspect that if you planted it you would come to value it.

Rosefolly

Sport of Westerland, Autumn Sunset also very nice.

Thank You TruBlue!

Here's a photo of crepescule at The Antique Rose Emporium in Independence, Tx.

Molly