Depends on your budget and requirements, and where you live. If it's at all trendy a neighborhood, they'll put "SubZero" on the MLS form when you go to sell. That doesn't bring you actual money, but it puts people in the mood to thinking that your house is high end and that brings in some kinds of people and puts them in the mood to spend more. I don't know if that's $2K worth, though the cachet will way outlast the life of the rest of your kitchen.

I like SubZero. KA's is basically inspired by SZ, and SZ is the real thing. The KA does have dual compressors, however, which is the biggest functional difference that used to set SZ alone. All fridges have quirks. The highest ones have fewer quirks. All fridges keep the food cold and keep you out of the emergency room. Most fridges nowadays don't freeze the lettuce.

Which interior layout do you like best? Which ice do you like best? How much do you like your two grand?

Thanks for the input. It is a bit of a trendy neighborhood but I have been here for 10 years and don't plan on moving so I guess I want something to work, last as long as possible and be pleasing to the eye. Is there a difference in ice between the two?

Thx,

J

I went with the Miele 36" built in which is about $1K less than SZ but on same quality level across the board. It's a definite step up from KA. It's about 4 mos old and we're very happy with it.

Miele looks nice but the SZ is actually 1k less since I am getting wolf range.

In the past, SZ has used Whirlpool icemakers, I've seen no recent posts as to whether SZ still uses the whirlpool icemakers.

Even if SZ still uses the Whirpool icemakers, (assuming they are like the icemaker in my Jenn-air), that is not all together bad. My original icemaker lasted 5 years, cost me $135 for a new one and was easily replaced by me as it is a "Plug in"~~~to me that's important (not needing an expensive and sometime "inconvenient" service call because an icemaker died).

Myself, I've never been a "fan" of double compressors, "Double trouble", 2 condensors to clean instead of one, more places for Freon leaks, alto to be honest, it has been "quite a few years" since SZ was plagued by Freon leaks.

Alto not a Samsung fan, I think they have a better idea than SZ as far as keeping the fridge/freezer compartments "Totally separated". They use one compressor and one condenser but use two evaporators, (the evaporator) is the part that actually releases the cold to the freezer or fridge compartments!!! (For you "Physics Experts" out there, "Removes the heat").

I believe at least one US company is using two evaporators and one compressor~~~maybe GE,. alto now GE is Electrolux, so now it is "Swedish".

Another thing to consider is should the fridge ever need service or parts, you can bet your last dollar that the Whirlpool parts will be a lot less expensive and available from a number of locations, NOT Just SZ as is the case with SZ parts.

Anway, more food for thought, and I just wanted to give you another opinion or perspective, but as pillog says, you are the one that is going to live with the fridge, so go with what you likes the best assuming you are willing to wave BYE BYE to the 2 grand!!!

Gary

Pretty much everyone has dual evaporators now, though they usually don't have independent compressors (SZ and a few others being exceptions). It is a worthwhile feature IMO, stuff definitely seems to last longer in my GE Profile dual evap than in fridges I've had in the past.

jg1971: You probably aren't going to gain much from answers here. Of course the appliance guy is going to say SubZ is worth it, there's more in it for him. It is pretty obvious if you've done even a little research that SubZ is the better built unit. But is that worth the price to you? For the vast majority of people, the answer to that question is no. The only way you are going to find out for yourself is to go to a showroom and check out both units in person. Open/close the doors and drawers, look carefully at the interior layout and shelving, etc.

We looked at both these just recently (although our kitchen aid built in price was about $5000 less then the subzero).

We decided on the KA because we felt that the SZ was not worth the 5K. I did an abundance of research and EVERY fridge has good reviews and bad reviews. We thought the SZ was nicer (felt more sturdy and had better quality plastic shelves and what not) but, I don't think there is any plastic that cost $2-5K.

We were told on average the KA will live around 10-13 years where the SZ will likely get 18-20. We figured we would want a new fridge in 10 years anyway (new technology/look/etc).

I would look at the layout. We chose the KA over the SZ because of the placement of the ice maker and the depth of the shelves. It has been the one trouble free appliance for 7 years. We only had maybe $1000 difference in price at the time.

Thanks for all the great advice. I guess I could also get the Miele direct select speed oven versus the m touch which is abouta $1200 dollar savings which would make getting the sub easier to swallow. Not sure I need all the extra features of the m touch (aka Masterchef).

j

For a speed oven I would definitely want the M Touch. Actually for me the upgrade from DirectSelect to MTouch on the speed oven would be more important than the upgrade from a KA to SubZero fridge. For a main oven I think it's not really necessary, we all know how to follow a recipe with time and temperature. But assuming the DirectSelect is like the older "Chef" series, it has no pre-programmed recipes. You have to manually program in all the parameters. Not only do you have to deal with temperature but you have to set the proportions/timing for each heat source and the magnetron. Since there aren't many speed oven cookbooks out there this would mean a ton of time consuming trial and error. As a result you would be less likely to really take full advantage of your speed oven.

Just throwing in another idea for you. Have you considered a Wolf Steam Oven rather than the Miele Speed Oven? I have both & I use the steam oven (love the steam oven) much more than the speed oven. You'd get another SZ/Wolf discount.

The Sub-Zero has dual compressors and evaporators, while the KA has single compressor dual evaporators. The benefits of the SZ system is that it allows for more precise temperature regulation. Also if you are ever thinking of selling the house the SZ is more of a selling point. The one thing I really dislike about the SZ french door is the fact that it has no gallon storage bins in the door...I don't know if the KA has that.

Does the steam oven work as a microwave as well?

How does 2 compressors translate to more precise temperature regulation? I would think a variable speed compressor is better at precise temp regulation, which if I remember correctly pretty much everyone except SubZero has LOL.

Of course I am just being nitpicky though. You shouldn't run into temp regulation issues with either the KA or the SZ.

This post was edited by hvtech42 on Sat, Dec 27, 14 at 0:31

I like the end results of cooking & reheating w/ the steam oven. It does both pretty quickly. It doesn't reheat liquids (coffee) or pop microwave popcorn.

A steam oven is not a microwave. Depending on the oven, it could do a vastly superior job of rewarming a plate of leftovers, but it's not for zapping oatmeal or a quick defrost of a block of soup. It also doesn't cook significantly faster than normal the way a speed oven does. I have a fully plumbed combi-steam oven (both standard convection oven and steam oven) with multiple steam settings, which I adore but there's nothing I can make in it that I couldn't do by conventional means. It's just a lot less fuss and bother. I also have a speed oven. It does stuff that other ovens just don't do. I think one could live perfectly well without it, but if you're choosing a specialty oven, it's the one that gives you the most difference.

General rule of thumb, cooking appliances have the biggest differences between them and the most difference in how you cook and enjoy your kitchen. The differences in cooling are marginal. For some people those marginal differences make all the difference and they wouldn't choose anything different. For others they seem like a ridiculous waste of money.

Malba2366, my eyes are playing tricks on me. I was sure the blurb said "dual compressors", but I just looked again and it surely does not! Thanks for the correction.

What dual compressors does for you is basically give you two units, a fridge and a freezer, in one box.

You can't assume longevity for a new unit based on a very very old one, though it's closer with SubZero who are famous for being very slow to pick up new technologies. My folks' 30+ year old, 36" over/under SZ just had to have the freezer compressor replaced, and they were warned that the elderly fridge compressor was likely to fail soon. The ice maker had to be replaced once (ice makers are notoriously the most delicate part of a freezer, and often need repair or replacement in a long lived unit). Unlike many other fridges that hang on for a long time, the SZ looks like new inside. Only the old style handle gives it away. This is considered standard performance for a SubZero.

Gary, please try to remember when you repeat the "freon leak" thing that it was found to be a bad batch of copper tubing. Once they figured it out, SZ made good on it and repaired all the problems. I take that as a good story on service rather than a bad story on manufacture.

N.B., I couldn't fit a combination of SZ that worked well with my layout and got Miele columns, which I'm very happy with.

I concur with seeing all the units in person. Take your most atypical items to see how they fit. Do you buy gallon jugs? Tall Rieslings? 30 lb. turkeys? (make one of those out of a stuffed pillowcase--not saying to bring a raw bird!). Do you want a built in egg box? Hate a built in egg box? Do you want a deli drawer (for flat packages)? A fruit drawer with air circulation? If none of this really matters to you, do consider saving the money.

Or what about looks? Do you want fully integrated so you can't tell it from the cabinetry? Some SZ models and Miele can do that. I don't know about KA.

As usual , HVtech 42 is "Spot On" with his post.

The JA fridge is/was speced at +/ 0.5 F temp precision manufacturer gives any details about how these numbers were calculated, (over what time period), what whilts the "newer SZ spec" is +/- 1 F. Now either of these numbers is probably really "overkill" and neither section/sections of the fridge were measured)~~~~etc etc.

As far as we know, SZ still uses the old style full on/full off compressors. To regulate temp, these compressors must "Overshoot" the low temp, (IE go below the set temp), and likewise overshoot the high temp, other wise the compressor would be going on/off continuously, so SZ has to choose a balance between compressor on/off cycling and temperature precision.

With a fridge that has a variable speed compressor, (Whirlpools, Mieles, Liebheers, Maybe the New GE's?), the speed of the compressor is continuously variable. When the fridge starts to get above set temp, the compressor speeds up, when it's at set temp, it runs very slowly.

Here's an "Anology" I've used before. Try to fill a measuring cup with Exactly one cup of water by only turning the faucet full on and then full off when you have one cup~~~pretty hard to do, most likely you overfilled the cup and had to dump out some.~~~~A La SZ.

Most of us would turn down the water coming from the faucet as we approach one cup, and then maybe a trickle at the end, depending on how close we want to be to exactly one cup, and most likely we get it right most of the time~~~as do the variable speed compressor fridges and or freezers.

Far more important than the "temperature precision" of the fridge, is how even are the temperatures in different areas of the fridge~~~is the fridge warmer at the top than the bottom, is it warmer on the left side than the right, is it warmer at the area where there is door storage?

Unfortunately, none of the fridge manufacturers give this type of measurement, themselves, but Consumer Reports
has done extensive testing in this area and it is available for your reading pleasure and/or knowledge.

Another important thing is , How fast can the fridge get back to set temp after the door has been opened?
Again, no specs, and not even sure if Consumer Reports has tested this.

Gary

I did mention it has been quite a few years since the leaked caused by the copper problem.

If one looks very far, (and I usually do,. as you probably know), there are/were a number of posts on the internet, (not sure if in Gardenweb), where folks had the "Copper Problem" and paid for repairs themselves, claiming SZ never told them about the problem, I suspects those posts
are still on the internet?

Gary

We bought the SZ 36" French Door earlier this year... LOVE the layout and how my produce stays fresh for weeks. Not to mention it is gorgeous looking. It's one of the first things people comment on my kitchen remodel. Definitely worth every penny - we liked it so much we also purchased the SZ Beverage fridge.

I have no "skin in this game", but just wanted to throw out that you (and everyone else) have left off the Thermadors, which are significantly less expensive than SubZero and in my opinion just as good. Their interiors are beautiful (great lighting) and with one exception that applies only to the 30", the layout is great (the one exception is that in the 30" model, there is no tall produce drawer - both drawers are full width but shallow - again, that doesn't apply to the 36"). We went with this fridge because a) it could be paneled and integrated, b) it fit our space, c) it was much less expensive than the SubZ and Miele. In our neighborhood, an integrated tall paneled or stainless fridge is the baseline for a high-end condo. As someone said, it won't get you more money, but it'll make more people interested faster (we actually discussed it with our broker before we started the remodel - he said it was much more important around here to do hi-end appliances than hi-end cabinets).

I've got the 36"Integrated SZ, the M-touch speed oven and a few other Miele's. If I had to give up something between the two appliances mentioned, I'd downgrade the speed oven. I've used the masterchef part once so far. I'd like to use it more, but it always seems like a gamble to let the appliance do the thinking for me. I wanted the upgraded speedoven mostly for some of the extra programs like dehydrating. We'll see when I get around to using them.

But I LOVE my fridge. Love. The only think I wish is that there was a bit more storage on the door. But I've annotated a photo to show DH where it's acceptable to put condiments that 'should' be on the door but can't be. That seems to have worked. I love it. I would also have no qualms about going with the Miele fridge. I'm super happy with my dishwasher and washer and dryer from them. I'm happy I didn't see them first since that would have been a difficult decision.

Definitely go open and close the fridges and see how they feel. The KA just didn't feel as nice as the SZ. The Jenn Air (same company) was a bit nicer, but still worth it to us to go to the SZ. And yes, everything stays fresh longer than it did in my Samsung. And doesn't freeze when it's not supposed to, which often happened on the Samsung.

Yes, definitely also consider the BSH fridges that a couple people have mentioned in this thread so far. Just so you know, Bosch, Thermador, Gaggenau, and Miele are the same (well, not identical looks and features wise, but mechanically the same and made in the same factory).

Re built ins, I shopped it extensively a few months back.

I would be a bit careful in lumping the BSH "cousins" together. I never could find a Bosch to examine it. But after reading about similarities here again and again here, I was surprised by the differences between the Thermador vs the Miele or Gaggenau.

While the basic shell may be the same, everything from hinges, to shelves to freezer baskets & features are quite different.

Nothing like an actual IRL comparison. That was the only way I could judge value for the cost of each.

I bought a KA built in ten years ago as I couldn't bring myself to spend the extra $ on SZ. Knock on wood it has performed well without requiring any repairs yet.

Our KA built-in was/is a newly redesigned model in 2007. We chose it over a SZ pretty much because of the price difference (some talk of a high # of SZ repair rates around that time was a small factor as well). We chose the KA over other models/brands because we liked the layout best, especially the in-door ice storage.

7 1/2 years later, we still like the fridge, however, I am not overly thrilled with the crispers, specifically, their ability to keep produce fresh. We store cheese(s) in the meat/cheese/.....keeper drawer. It molds quickly in our fridge, IMO.

I don't know if the SZ does a significantly better job keeping these items fresh vs. the KA, but it certainly would be a consideration for me were I to be looking to purchase a built-in refrigerator right now.

I choose a KA BI more than 3 years ago for our new kitchen. After a measuring error on my part, I had to go with a CD fridge instead of the standard I had planned. I decided to pay a bit more for the better look of a BI. BI fridges are very rare in my neighborhood. I know no one who has a SZ so the name cache wasn't a factor for me. I could not bring myself to even consider the price of a SZ after finding a screaming deal on my KA on ebay. I've been very happy with it. It's so quiet, things don't freeze, produce lasts a long time. Knock wood. I do, however, think the SZ looks better and would be snazzier.

Not sure if this is good or bad but after 7 years, our Sub Zero has been determined to be up repairable and they have offered to replace it for $3,300.00 plus install. Seems like a fair price but the original fridge should have lasted longer?

7 years ago... isn't that when SubZ was having known issues of some sort?

Yes, that was the time they had the "Copper Problem".

Actually from what I've read, the problem was caused because they used copper tubing , but aluminum fins on the copper tubing and the 2 different types of metals used together, caused the problem, ~~~~but there are many different versions to this story!

That was about the time I was buying a fridge,. (well actually 8 years ago), and a late friend of mine, who had "Champagne tastes" and a beer budget" was pushing me to get the SZ, He knew we had the "Champagne Budget", LOL.

Anyway, at the time there were only 3, 48" built in and paneled fridges available,
(at least at Pacific Sales).
GE, SZ and Jenn-air.

Since I had a GE Fridge and was less than happy with it, that left a contest between the SZ and The Jenn-air.

The Jenn-air had many features that the SZ did not.
Crank up/down shelves, in both the fridge and freezer.
Digital controls and readouts for 3 different sections of the fridge~~~the regular compartment, the meat keeper and the veggie/fruit drawer, and built in diagnostics.

This swayed us toward the JA, but I got on Consumer Reports and found that,
(at that point in time), (Please note, I said "At that point in time" ~~~about 2004-2008), JA was rated by responders to a CR survey as the # 1 rated fridge for reliability, whilst the SZ was rated "dead last".

Further research turned up the SZ "Copper Problem", so I am sad to see your problem asharding, and I hope SZ does better than the 3 grand offer, I'm sure glad I did my research and went with the JA.

Gary

Thanks for all your input. We decided to go with the sub after going back to the appliance dealer and kicking the tires. We saved money by getting the basic miele speed oven instead of the m touch and the entry level $1,099 dishwasher which in total saved is the 2k difference between the KA and sub fridges. Our house was built in 29 and we don't even have a dishwasher so we figure the basic miele DW will seem like a dream anyways.