We put in Plato cabinets a year ago. Love them! Great company. We went into our remodel knowing pretty much what we wanted as far as looks went. We worked with Plato and GC to create a working design.

Do you have any particular questions?

ETA a photo - if that helps.

This post was edited by ck_squared on Wed, Feb 4, 15 at 13:52

CK- I know this is an old post but am wondering how your Plato cabinets are holding up? I'm considering them or Woodmode for a kitchen reno.

I had Plato too - installed eleven years ago. They were lovely and functionally held up very well - we just moved out of that house about a year ago. The only complaint I had was that I had quartersawn oak in a shaker style with a dark stain. The edges of the cabinet doors were not rounded at all (sharp corners if you know what I mean) and the stain started wearing off those edges within six months. I had the KD dealer come out and take a look and they tried having someone come in and fix this but it wasn't successful. I ended up touching these areas up with a stain pen type thing. This didn't occur every where but in some of the higher use areas. It wasn't terribly noticeable but I thought it pretty much unacceptable considering how much I paid for the cabinets. Overall I lived with it for ten years and the cabinets were beautiful in spite of this but because of that I would not purchase Plato cabinets again. It may be completely not an issue for the type of cabinets you are getting.

I have a good friend who is a KD who sells Woodmode. She has had white shaker Woodmode in her own kitchen for nearly fifteen years and they look great. She speaks very highly of Woodmode and I'm just a friend - not buying anything from her.

That is good to know as I am looking at stained cabinets. In a previous house that I purchased had stained oak cabinets from Woodmode that were 12 yrs old and they looked great. I ended up having them professional painted but was very happy with the construction of them for the next 6 yrs that I lived in that house. I also have heard that Woodmode's Brookhaven line is pretty good, too. I would probably purchase Woodmode without any hesitation but the 2 places that would be available to purchase from I'm not to inspired by their designers. I'm surprised that Plato didn't take the doors back and replaced them as I would think sending someone out to fix them on-site would compromise the protective finish. I'll have to look at their warranty closer.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

Aside from a little dust, our cabinets look as good as the day they were installed. They are holding up very well. They are walnut with a light mocha stain and we have no issues with any wear on the corners/edges as a previous poster mentioned. We are very happy with the quality and style and would use them again. Helps that Plato is practically in our backyard.

Plato is in my back yard too - perhaps I should have contacted them directly but like I said it wasn't a terrible problem. If it had been I would have pressed it further. Overall they were beautiful cabinets. Plus that was 11 years ago and dark stained cabinets weren't popular at the time - maybe it was a temporary glitch. If you like them and the company you'd be working with I'd go for it.

Both your comments are very helpful and make me feel more comfortable in using Plato. And now I can use the designer that is on the top of my list! Thanks.

After a three-week search in late 2018 for more information on Plato Woodwork, I am still mystified as to the genuine quality and pricing of their products. If anyone has something to add, I'd appreciate it, as current data online is minimal. Here is a summary of my findings thus far, including information touched upon in this thread:

#1 Quality of Construction - Several dozen reviewers online at various sources, many of whom are dealers and installers, praise what they say is the overall high quality of Plato cabinetry. Plato's basic construction specs meet a high standard. Customers report that the dimensions are square making installation easy. Each individual cabinet is packaged with paper, plastic wrap and a cardboard box before being transported on an air-ride semi, so shipping damage is minimal to none which is verified by many reviewers. There is a discussion on the Journal of Light Construction forums about one shipment of Plato's Inovae frameless line 10 years ago in which the maple cabinet doors had numerous, ill-placed veneer seams (more than in comparable competitors' cabinetry), and the color and grain of the pieces were not well-matched. Another customer in 2018, now ten years later, has posted reviews at several places online about the color of 3 doors out of her order not matching the rest of her cabinetry. Plato eventually replaced her entire order, but I do wonder if an underlying issue might have been the original color of the wood pieces not being as well-matched as they could have been. Plato uses a lot of quartersawn white oak which has a wide range of natural color variation, but the first example I mentioned was cabinetry in maple, and the second example doesn't specify the wood or finish color. Darker finishes help camouflage wood color variations. Plato claims to select top-grade wood for all of its products. Possible conclusion: Plato's boxes are well-built, but the color, grain and piecing of doors in lighter finishes could be disappointing in some cases. Plato stands behind its products, however, and will go to great lengths to replace unsatisfactory deliveries. Inset cabinetry tolerances are problematic with any brand, especially when cabinets are shipped far from the manufacturing location to different humidity levels, and should be avoided if possible.

#2 - Longevity of Finishes - Some reviewers say the cabinets finishes have held up beautifully for over a decade. Two reviewers in this thread have had problems with what they feel are the finishes wearing prematurely. I actually called and talked to a Plato sales manager at the manufacturing facility about this, and he said that premature wearing of finishes isn't a problem that they regularly see. He said that people who are cleaning their cabinetry with overly harsh methods may see premature wearing as may people touching the finishes frequently with their hands or even gouging out grooves with jewelry. @Arthur Begun in a previous comment in this thread could have had his "soft satin stain finish" damaged by careless installers in a way he might not have seen in daily use; I would like to know what kind of mileage he had with the finish after the installers were done. The varnish and curing method that Plato uses is among the toughest in the industry, the sales manager said, and he also said that all cabinet makers will eventually have issues with finish longevity in high-use areas. Plato has released a new cerused oak finish which feels tough enough for cat claws in my opinion (we're trying to find cabinetry to stand up to one of our pets who likes to scratch the cabinets). Plato also offers laminate and other durable veneers in its frameless line. See a video of Plato's state-of-the-art finishing processes here. Possible conclusion: The rock-hard, cerused oak finishes will probably be durable for decades, but be careful with other stains in high-use areas, especially dark ones that will show wear more easily than lighter finishes. It's likely that Plato's varnishes are equivalent to or better than the toughness you'd see with competitors' lines.

#3 - Hardware - Given Plato's price range, I'm rather surprised based on viewing a showroom display to see that Plato's cabinets don't come with soft-close doors as a standard feature even in the custom line. The drawers are soft-close, but not the doors which have magnetized clasps. This is an upgrade which must be specified.

#4 - Pricing - The price range of these cabinets is hard to pin down. Plato's own website calls its semi-custom Prelude line affordable and a good value. Some reviewers say these cabinets are less expensive than would be expected for the quality and that they sell Plato as a competitively-priced cabinetry brand. Other reviewers say they "about fell over" when they found out the price of Plato cabinetry and that the brand is more expensive than would be expected. My local dealer claims that Plato kitchen cabinets would come in at price starting at $50K which she claims would be less than the same layout in Omega! This makes me suspicious of excessive markups by various dealers. The famous Paul McAlary at Mainline Kitchen Design rates Plato in a "Category 4" for price, which would put it as mid-range cabinetry competing with Brighton, Bertch and Starmark. Possible conclusion: Plato's custom line is rumored to be more expensive than would be expected, while its semi-custom line Prelude is rumored to be competitively priced. Unfortunately, a catalog of standard Prelude components is elusive. I've asked 3 sources to share the Prelude sizing specs with me to no success, leaving me on my own to guess what sizes might be part of the semi-custom line as I request an official quote.

#5 - 5-Star Customer Service - Not one reviewer has given any legitimate reason to doubt that Plato's customer service is second to none. Many reviewers have noted Plato's quick and complete response to every customer complaint. This is one thing that really attracts me to considering the brand.

For what it's worth, we had Plato cabinets installed when we built our house in 1997 and they still look great. Loved the attention to small details. The only 'complaint' is that we don't have the soft/quiet close feature that is the norm these days (I doubt it was a feature offered back then). Good luck!

I have been searching the forums (and this time-the search query worked for me)-- doing my research as was considering numerous manufacturers. The first several that I looked at turned out to be made in China and I really wanted made in USA. I have heard 95% rave reviews of the quality of Plato and feel comfortable that I will be using those.

@salonva Just prepare for a stiff price if you get quoted with Plato. I'd recommend looking to see if your design could fit into the Prelude semi-custom line Plato offers for better pricing. Some dealers will allow you to fit up to 6 Plato custom cabinets in with an order of Prelude to help with cost savings. Both Prelude and Plato full custom are framed, and two additional frameless lines of cabinetry are now offered by Plato, but I don't know how pricing compares with the framed lines. There are plenty of other cabinetry companies that offer quality similar to Plato, made in the USA, so please don't be disheartened if the price is not what you'd budgeted because you do have options. I would expect a quote starting around $3,000 to $4,000 per piece with Plato.

Thank you @Aglitter. Yes I am looking at Plato Prelude, not custom, and even within that, at their less pricey cabinets

.Not totally finalized, but it's tolerable price wise and I am feeling confident that it will be quality, Might not be everyone's pick but after searching and searching I think I have a plan and features that will work well for us. I have never done this before; I have only tweaked finishes before so this is going to be an experience for me. Wish me luck.

Just following up here, as I guess since someone liked a comment, it was in my notification feed.

The kitchen reno was pretty much done in July. There were no issues at all with quality. The only glitch we had, which was really minor was that one cabinet ( of course, the corner upper one) which came was the wrong dimension by I think an inch. I am not clear really how that happened, but we did have to wait for the correct sized one so that the uppers could be installed.

I can just imagine if we had to wait for the correct cabinet to be shipped from Asia or wherever- might still be waiting. Being made and shipped from Minnesota was a good thing.

Everything else was really perfect and I am very pleased. To be honest, I am not sure that from looking at a cabinet installed, that I could discern quality but knowing it is there is a good feeling. I suspect over time, I will be more and more aware. They are very solid and there were no quality issues. ( have heard of other brands where almost 1/2 of what was sent was not acceptable. with Plato, everything was ready to hang). The contractors kept commenting on what good quality the cabinets are. This was all Plato Prelude.

Thanks for the update. I would have loved to work with this company for my own renovation, but several custom measurements needed for my own kitchen would have put me into the full Plato custom line which was simply beyond my budget. The Prelude options are an excellent value for someone who can work within those parameters. Congratulations on a finished kitchen during the pandemic. My project is still ongoing with extensive delays.

My Plato cabinets arrive for install Thursday! I'm so nervous! Our kitchen was 40 years old and so ugly, but I'm sitting here second guessing the stain color we chose. So nerve wracking after months of work to have it come down to the last few hours of painting and prep.

It's natural to second-guess everything in a remodel. Give it six months. A lot will settle in with your surroundings by then, and if something still bothers you by that point, then you can move forward with any adjustments. Sometimes lighting can make a big difference in how a finish is perceived. I just ordered some Belfer wall wash fixtures for my kitchen remodel that I'm very excited about with ambient lighting effects.

Has anyone gone with cherry and If so what stain. Also considering quarter sawn walnut on the horizontal but worried about it not aligning.

I just used cherry wood in my kitchen with no stain, just a clear coat only. Cherry will darken on its own significantly during the first six months or so after installation, and it is such a pretty wood on its own that fine woodworkers rarely stain it. Walnut will lighten up over time which is the opposite of cherry. The fading of walnut surprises many remodelers who weren't expecting that. Walnut is also prone to insect infestations. Straight-sawn walnut is already expensive, and quartersawn even more so. You must realize that even quartersawn wood shows the more prominent grain variation in select pieces and not throughout all the lumber. Unless your builder hand selects the wood with specific quartersawn features for the faces of the cabinetry, you could get less than you expect. Kennebec is the true quartersawn wood specialist, but their clear coatings are not as robust as what Plato uses. I would recommend going with Plato's cherry wood unstained if it is a choice between Kennebec quartersawn walnut and Plato plain sawn cherry. Kennebec can also do quartersawn cherry, and Kennebec's color and grain matching overall should far exceed Plato's. Plato seems to be particularly weak on color and grain matching of natural woods, at least based on photos and forum comments I have seen. That was one reason I steered away from Plato in the end; I wanted a natural wood finish and wasn't confident that the grain and color match from Plato would be worth the premium pricing they charge.

thank you for the thou and detailed response! As the rest of our bungalow is white quarter sawn oak, we are now looking into that option. Any thoughts on that route? Also looking into having a cabinet maker use real wood rather than veneer. Thoughts?

A local cabinet maker will not usually have the capability to put a two-part, post-catalyzed conversion varnish with a lifetime finish warranty on cabinetry like Plato does. The difference is cabinets that may look good for 2 years with the local shop versus cabinets that will last the lifetime of the kitchen remodel with Plato or other top-tier brands. I did use a local builder to save money and ended up doing a two-part catalyzed conversion varnish on my own, but it involved a paint booth and a ton of labor and skill. I would never go this route again. Plato does some beautiful quartersawn white oak. They even do a true cerused oak if you like that look. They offer both veneered and solid wood doors as well as framed and frameless construction. They have an entry-level line called Prelude that is lower priced and can be mixed with a few pieces of full custom as needed if you are on a budget. You could not do much better in terms of quality than Plato. Comparison shop if your local Plato dealer quotes you too high of a price. I found a few out-of-state dealers who were willing to work with me remotely to place an order at a reasonable price.

@Kirstin B would you mind sharing a picture of your project now that it's complete? I'm looking at ordering Plato and supposed to finalize things next week but would LOVE to see yours. I'm torn on the grain direction right now and to see as many Plato examples as I can would help! Thanks!

I am doing a large new Custom Home and we are considering Plato Woodwork, Prelude; Beaded inset; Rustic Alder wood species,

Briar stain, Pearl finish; Door style-Revival, R-1 raised panel, Drawer front-Revival LX with flat panel

Anybody use this type of wood species and possibly stain color before and can tell me about the quality of the product?

Alder is one of the softest of all hardwoods which is one of the reasons we didn't go with it. Plus, someone whose opinion I respect and who knows cabinets said alder is basically a "swamp tree" and not very good quality for cabinets. If you are going for a "large new Custom Home" I would consider a different wood species.

You need to know that one of Plato's weaknesses is in the color and grain match of clear coated wood. If your client doesn't mind a wide color variation from piece to piece (and within the doors for the sticks that make up each door), then you will be fine. The Plato workmanship and warranty are at the top of the industry. It is a pity that they don't seem to do a better job on grain and color match. The opaque painted wood or laminates are safer in terms of color with Plato. If you are in that price range you should also consider getting quotes from both William Ohs and Jay Rambo. Both of those companies will color and grain match clear coated wood better, from what I have seen.

@Aglitter and @Bob Dresser we are doing a clear finish on a natural wood and paid for it to be grain matched. They don't grain match from sheet to sheet so there absolutely will be variations but in a natural wood I wouldn't call that splotchy instead I would call that natural movement. I think it depends on what the desired outcome is really. If you want the wood to be 100% matched you're better off going with a composite than a veneer. If you do go with Plato you need to really talk to their rep as they have multiple options available and depending on the door style you're looking for they aren't that clear cut with their terms. My recommendation is to really get the actual Plato rep in and dig dig dig until you've exhausted the terminology and then get it in writing. We don't get our kitchen until the end of the year but if you remind me late fall I'll upload a picture. Also, just so you know they use rev-a-shelf for their inserts, as many companies do.

There are two categories of matching to which I was referring, grain and color. Some companies make an attempt at one or both and other companies appear to use every stick of wood that comes off the truck without any culling or attempt at coordinating. A company of Plato's caliber and pricing would be expected to put in at least some effort for both options on clear coated, non-veneered wood products, but off the top of my head I can think of three sources that stood out to me in my own research that indicated perhaps this was not the case consistently and that certainly at least some failures (to the point of being rejected and remade as warranty claims) in these areas were making it through to delivered cabinetry. Not wanting to risk my own project on that possibility, I passed on Plato. It is news to me that they even offer a higher level of matching at a cost of an upgrade. Companies like Jay Rambo do this standard for all their clear coated wood projects. I believe William Ohs would be the same way. There are a few others, but I would have to go through old bookmarked websites to find them. It is something to inquire about at the outset for sure with any cabinetry order that is clear coated solid wood if grain and color matching is standard or priced as an upgrade.

Terrible quality for the price! Mine came with marks all over, they were wrapped before completely dry. They had to replace doors. Now they are cracking and bubbling. I would suggest for the price using a different company.

Really? Plato has a lifetime finish guarantee. I would follow up on every single problem. You are sure this is Plato Woodworking based in Plato, Minnesota? I have never heard of early failures of that magnitude from this company. Plato is particularly known for flawless warranty fulfillment and will replace or repair free of charge anything that is an original manufacturing defect over the lifespan of the cabinetry.

Plato cabinets are the worst. After lengthy research when looking to purchase our new kitchen cabinets, we decided on the Plato cabinets because they came with a lifetime warranty. That lifetime warranty should be used as toilet paper. It means nothing. After a few years, our cabinets started to bubble on the edges. We contacted Plato. They sent a representative to look at them. They said we had water damage. We never had a flood. We never have moisture in our house and didn’t understand where the water damage could’ve came from. We are now living with the most horrendous looking $30,000 set of cabinets and they will not stand behind one single door. the least they could’ve done was replace the few doors that are very noticeable when you walk in my kitchen. the inspector said they would at least replace the panel on the dishwasher and they never did that. They totally blamed it on moisture, which we don’t know where it came from. the inspector said it is possible the supplier (who by the way is out of business) stored them in a damp place. That was not our fault and being we spent so much money on these cabinets we expected a little more than sorry it’s your problem. stay away from these expensive cabinets. Not worth it. I have friends that bought cabinets in IKEA, Home Depot, and other much less expensive places whose cabinets have held up extremely well over the years and don’t look anything like mine.

Worst cabinets ever

@Angela Maemone I am sorry but it looks to me from your photo that you do have water damage on your cabinets because your countertop overhang is inadequate. The counter overhang should be about 1-1/4". Because your counter overhang is so shallow, it allows any water on the counter to drip directly onto your cabinets, and incur the water damage shown. Everyone has some water on the counter during food prep and cleaning. If you had a larger counter overhang, that water either would not reach the edge of the counter, or if it did, it would drip onto the floor, missing the cabinets. Had you bought your cabinets elsewhere as you said, you would have the same result from 2 years of water dripping onto the cabinets.

Classic signs of water damage. You need to dry the cabinets off after they are wetted. Don't touch with wet hands. Don't use gallons of water to mop. Etc.

Dishwashers don't always do well with panels, regardless of coating type. It is better in most cases to keep wood cabinetry panels off a dishwasher. However, all the areas have clearly been subjected to wear.

It seems inconceivable this damage could have been created by pre-installation storage. Perhaps the homeowner has children or other kitchen users who are hard on the cabinetry when no one else is looking? In any case, I honestly would have expected a two-part, post-catalyzed conversion varnish to have held up better. Moisture beads up and rolls off my water-based, two-part, post-catalyzed conversion coating, but mine is unusually tough -- designed primarily for wood flooring even though I used it on kitchen cabinets. I don't know what the moisture breach threshold would be for what Plato uses.

This reminds me of another review or two when I was doing research in 2018 about people complaining of finish longevity issues with Plato. I called and talked to a sales manager and asked about this. He claimed Plato's finish was among the most durable in the industry, but who really knows given the odd review here and there that might indicate otherwise.

Certainly an insufficient countertop overhang could contribute if kitchen users aren't careful to keep drips away from the edge. Heavy use could also be an issue as painted wood cabinetry isn't like stainless steel. You need to be careful with it. Cleaning it with a water-soaked rag isn't recommended!

I've never thought light cabinetry colors were ideal for a heavily used kitchen. You can see dirt buildup here in these photos. At this point, the best thing might be to pay for touch-up paint from Plato and then train everyone who steps in that kitchen in cabinetry care.

I'm sorry you are having that experience. I am just a layperson but I think M Miller's explanation sounds right. I am surprised to see such bare counter overhang, and would have thought there is a minimum standard?

“I honestly would have expected a two-part, post-catalyzed conversion varnish to hold up better.”

This is all substrate damage. No coating is going to hold up to that.

While it is conceptually possible that this is a defect in the sheet goods or coating process, that would be rare. It is much more likely that this is moisture damage and I doubt any manufacturer would warranty it.

I am not the biggest fan of raised panel MDF doors for this very reason. This type of damage is not exactly rare with raised panel MDF.

@bry911 is much more widely versed on coatings used in the cabinetry industry in general than I am. I can say I've personally worked with a two-part post-catalyzed conversion coating for my own cabinetry, and it is watertight, but my situation is unique as my coating is intended for flooring and thus much, much thicker and more resilient (with ceramic particles in it) than Plato's would be. There is no question that the quality of coatings varies in the cabinetry industry, even among manufacturers using high-end products like Plato does.

As mentioned above, this is not the first complaint I've seen of Plato's finish longevity, but it could be the high price of these cabinets raises expectations above brands with equivalent coatings that would react the same way under similar usage scenarios. If you have a family that will be hard on cabinetry, stainless steel or other options like HDPE polymer may be better material choices.

I can say I've personally worked with a two-part post-catalyzed conversion varnish for my own cabinetry, and it is watertight, but my situation is unique, and my coating is much, much thicker and more resilient (with ceramic particles in it) than Plato's would be.

It is virtually impossible for any coating on cope and stick doors to be watertight. It is exceedingly difficult to get a durable watertight coating on any wood product, even those that are much more stable such as MDF or HDF.

Although it seems counterintuitive, a thicker coating doesn't often create a more durable coating. The problem is crosslinking. Cabinets move, the doors flex ever so slightly when opened and closed, when bumped, etc., they also swell and shrink with changes in relative humidity. The coating resists movement, but it is adhered to the wood so it moves with the wood. However, a coating gains durability by crosslinking to itself, when the coating is too thick there is too much crosslinking and the resistance will eventually win, so the adhesion to the wood fails over time. Eventually, the coating will fail. It doesn't always happen, and can be slow to appear, but it is one of the most common failures.

@bry911 and I have interacted at length over my product and application elsewhere, and I stand by my comment. For anyone interested in the technology and my story, search for "Loba on cabinets" or "cabinet coating for cats" here at Houzz. That said, Plato would have been my first choice for my kitchen renovation if the price had been more affordable. I would have chosen Plato's cerused finish for the bases which would have been more durable than opaque paint over MDF. Plato does a true cerused finish, not a faux one like Bentwood and some others, and Plato's cerused finish is highly durable.

I don't remember any particular interaction with you, not to say that we didn't interact, just that I don't remember it. Nor did your recommended searches readily reveal them.

I haven't commented on anything about your coating. However, as someone who actually worked in coating development (before moving into the business side) and as someone who sprays a lot of paint, I don't want people to think your coating is typical. I really don't care if you coated your cabinets in chewing gum, but I don't want people who chose otherwise to believe their coating is defective, because of something you said that is only really applicable to your coating.

Most cabinet coatings are not waterproof - It is really great that yours is, but most aren't.

Most cabinet coatings don't benefit from being "much, much thicker" - It is really great that yours does, but most don't.

ETA: Plato may be great or terrible, but I haven't seen many cabinet companies who would warranty those doors. If those doors are truly only a few years old... it has been a rough few years. They have obviously had stuff spilled on them, because it is still there.

@bry911 Yes, I absolutely agree my coating was non-typical, and anyone who searches on Houzz for the terms I suggested will see that I recommend against anyone replicating what I did. I have cats who scratch cabinets, and my application was successful in preventing scratch damage. I have also gated my kitchen to cut back on contact, but cat claws slide down my coating like ice skates on the occasion they get in.

I agree that coating thickness beyond the recommended application levels introduces weakness to the coating. The coating I used was phenomenally flexible, meant for flooring, and I applied it according to Loba's recommendation and thus used more than 2 gallons of primer and coating product (4 coats total) on a surface area where Plato would have used less than half a gallon. My comment above was intended to point out the difference, far from suggesting Plato change application methods.

Where I do think Plato and other companies could possibly benefit is by looking at recent advances in coatings. Much has happened in coatings technology even in the last 5 years. I would like to see companies looking more toward waterborne/water-based (some say there is a difference) solutions to help prevent long-term yellowing and reduce VOCs in addition to seeing what other types of longevity improvements may be possible.

It will be interesting to see where the cabinetry industry is in a few years and whether or not any of the major companies upgrade their coatings systems. When I shopped for cabinetry in 2018, almost no major company offered waterborne/water-based as a standard even though leading coatings manufacturers were well on their way to matching the durability of older coatings technologies with non-yellowing, low-VOC, water-based/waterborne solutions.

There is a real danger of letting the tail wag the dog when these discussions happen without perspective. Buying cabinets because of the coating used is similar to buying a car because of the coating used. Certainly, it is something to consider, but it probably shouldn't be the decision driver. I typically advise people to find a cabinetmaker who is intentional about their coating, someone who has thought about different coatings and can elaborate on why they prefer the coating they use. There are plenty of satisfactory coatings for cabinets and there is no need to pick the manufacturer who uses the absolute latest best coating.

Plato uses a UV cured conversion varnish, which is one of the most durable coatings manufactured and certainly comparable to Milesi products.

Coating type and quality mattered in my renovation. I needed something non-yellowing (e.g. water-based), and I needed it be either highly durable or highly repairable due to the cats. Other posts here at Houzz document my journey, so I will not elaborate further.

It is my understanding that UV curing does not necessarily add to the strength of a coating, though plenty of manufacturers like to advertise that it does. UV curing's prime roles are to speed up line production and minimize contamination, but brands like Jay Rambo and Christopher Peacock that specialize in high-end finishes still rely on air drying to produce premium-quality coatings. Most catalyzed conversion varnishes dry within seconds or minutes of being sprayed, so the motivation behind manner of curing is a complex topic.

There is certainly a range of difference in coatings! Some brands test beyond others in points of comparison, even within the conversion category. Any customer paying $30K USD and beyond for cabinets such as Plato's wants to know that the "lifetime guarantee" is based on a coating that will retain color integrity and hold up to reasonable usage if not qualify as state-of-the-art.

I would encourage researchers who have landed here to search elsewhere for additional recent reviews from customers for any cabinet company you are considering. Warranty fulfillment is a big factor to take into consideration, and Plato in the past has excelled in that.

Normally, I would have expected Plato to have offered a resolution of some sort to the most recent reviewer, so perhaps times are changing for this company, but I would need to see additional reviews to verify. The issues experienced by the most recent reviewer may fall outside warranty terms, but I would still be interested in seeing lab comparisons of Plato's coating system against results from other cabinetry companies in the same pricing bracket to see whether any differences in chemical resistance, moisture resistance, or abrasion resistance would be apparent. If I were in the market for cabinets again, I would feel comfortable with the strength of Plato's cerused finish but would probably order a sample door for my own testing of any other coating before committing.

Until now, I have tried to respond to your points rather than discuss any type of qualifications to make those points. I am going to break from that for a moment because I don't think posters should weight our posts equally. I have a degree in chemical engineering, a lot of spray equipment, and experience with a variety of coatings... You have a serious case of Dunning-Kruger. The things you are posting are very obviously wrong to anyone with even a passing understanding of paint chemistry.

You noted, ''I would like to see companies looking more toward waterborne/water-based (some say there is a difference) solutions to help prevent long-term yellowing and reduce VOCs." - I truly hope everyone says there is a difference because anyone with even a basic understanding of coatings knows there is a difference. One is a water-based coating, the other is a water delivery system of a solvent-based coating. Just as an aside, one of the innovators of waterborne coatings was my best-friend's father, and my mentor, who initially worked on water delivery of solvent paints because of inhalant abuse.

You noted, "Plato would benefit from looking into leading coatings companies with high durability ratings like Milesi" - Plato uses a UV cured conversion varnish which is a stronger and more durable finish than the 2k polyurethane's that Milesi produces. Because Xylene is a carcinogen, European agencies didn't approve it for in-home use and European companies were forced to rely on the less durable polyurethanes. They did a bang-up job and now those polyurethanes rival the durability of Xylene catalyzed conversion varnish and arguably stronger in some situations, but overall conversion varnish is still seen as the more durable coating.

I have railed against the use of Xylene catalyzed conversion varnishes in homes since I got to these boards, but durability isn't the problem with them.

You noted, "It is my understanding that UV curing does not necessarily add to the strength of a coating" - No one here said it does, however, it allows a single coating to essentially be 100% solids. Mostly it removes the Xylene which makes conversion varnish a much safer choice.

You said, "Envirolak has somehow recently managed to produce a one-part (meaning non-conversion), water-based coating that rivals the strength testing lab results of Milesi's water-based conversion coatings." - One-part does not mean non-conversion. A conversion varnish was traditionally just a lacquer with such high solid content that it needed an acid kicker (Xylene). There is no requirement for it to be two parts and there are now several pre-catalyzed conversion varnishes. Many UV conversion varnishes are essentially 100% solid content and they don't require post catalyzation...I mean they don't actually catalyze. Sometimes companies will sell the photoinitiator separately, but they often don't.

You said, "Any customer paying $30K USD and beyond for cabinets such as Plato's wants to know that the "lifetime guarantee" is based on the best possible available coating." - Yet, you somehow believe that a water-based polyurethane is going to be better than a UV conversion varnish. So I disagree, the average customer paying $30K USD wouldn't have any idea of the best possible coating.

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There are a dozen more of these things. I am happy that you researched and found the best possible coating for your needs and I am not in any way challenging that, but I urge you to do some more research before advising people.

Where you work as a chemical pro and where the rubber meets the road with consumers like me reading reviews and articles aimed at the general public may often be different things. At the risk of repeating myself, I ask why we have seemingly categorical differences in user reviews of coatings from cabinetry manufacturers whom we may presume use similar systems?

This question remains unanswered in regard to Plato's finishes which -- with the exception of cerused -- have been reviewed to, on occasion, allegedly wear prematurely compared to other brands with supposedly equivalent coatings systems. This phenomenon was real enough that I called Plato directly during my own research and asked, among other things, about finish durability because I had seen more than one review referring to wear seemingly unrelated to advanced age or abnormal use.

I stand by my previous comments that I believe Plato and many other USA-based cabinetry companies have room for growth in finish technology, particularly when it comes to non-yellowing, low-VOC finishes, but also in other measures to keep pace with advances currently being made in the coatings industry.

My own kitchen cabinetry coating is Loba's water-based, post-catalyzed 2K Supra AT conversion varnish, and it lasts about 30 years if you put it on the floor. Moisture contact such as may occur in an average kitchen doesn't break it down, and being water-based, it won't turn amber over time. The technology is there right now not only with this coatings company but also others for some amazing results beyond what we have expected in the past from coatings relied upon by top-tier cabinetry producers in the USA.

Plato is an awesome company. It is one of the best in the USA. It is probably in the top 10% in terms of quality and warranty fulfillment. There were a couple of drawbacks around 2018 like color and grain match on natural wood with clear coat finishes, something that should probably have received more attention given the price positioning of this brand. A diligent consumer searching currently may be able to find additional recent information about Plato's current practices to determine whether this brand is a good fit for a specific project. Plato offers numerous unique options that may meet needs that go well beyond coating type.

I also stand by my recommendation that potential customers order a sample door and then learn about finish testing methods that can be done at home or at a lab to mitigate surprises with the final product.

Just as Houzz is a place where pros may interact with amateurs and exchange helpful information, there are several Facebook groups where pros and amateurs share knowledge specifically about cabinetry coatings. Much of what I learned as a non-pro about coatings companies like ICA Group, Milesi, Envirolak, Renner, and others helping to pioneer advances in non-yellowing, low-VOC, durable one- and two-part cabinetry and trim coatings came from this group: https://m.facebook.com/groups/diycabinetrefinishing

In closing, I'll attach a few photos of some of the fabulous interior organizational options Plato offers. Pictures were taken in a Grapevine, Texas, Plato showroom.

None of the above comment has anything to do with any post I made. I never said that Plato cabinets do, or do not, have a coating problem. I did say that this most recent example is exceedingly unlikely to be a coating problem after you noted it was.

You then made several erroneous statements about cabinet coatings, which I took issue with. Chief among them was that Plato should invest in a more durable and advanced coating, when Plato uses a more durable and advanced coating than you suggested. There can still be coating problems with durable and advanced coatings and every manufacturer will sometimes see these issues.

ETA:

I enjoy learning from experts, especially those interested in two-way dialogue - No you don't! You have fooled yourself into believing you have a robust understanding of coatings and somehow believe you can enlighten others.

How many different coatings have you shot? How many sprayers do you own? Do you own UV curing lamps? I am fine with two-way dialogue when someone actually has knowledge to share and have had several of those types of interactions with posters on this board such as jdesign. I am not fine with giving objectively incorrect information equal weight, just because you believe I should.

@Lomo and scrubbing with vinegar because it’s ”natural”. That one is my pet peeve, yet seen zillions of comments on here from people who do that and recommend it to others. “It’s great for glass, so it must be great for wood, walls, flooring and counters”.

Update: as of 2023, Bentwood now offers a true cerused finish on oak wood cabinetry. I'm not sure if the prior faux cerused finish is still offered, but it is irrelevant now that they do a true one which looks superior. This puts Bentwood in an even better position as a toe-to-toe competitor with Plato in terms of design, since Plato has for many years offered a beautiful, true cerused finish in several colorways.