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Better yields from summer- or ever-bearing raspberries?

11 years ago

I've tried this post before, without too much conversation generated�

Basically, I am wondering a few things:
1. First, (according to what I've read here) why are summer bearing varieties still used more by commercial growers?
2. Is the answer because summer bearing varieties are more productive? When I suggested this before several folks did not think so, saying that since everbearers also produce a summer crop they must be more productive, but I'd like more info about this (I've yet to have a summer crop on my plants)...
3. Why do the u-pick raspberry operations near me that use fall bearers mow all their canes each winter (in effect eliminating any summer crop) and rely only on the fall crop for sales?
4. In areas where the fall crop is seriously marginalized by early cold, would it just make sense to go with summer bearing types?

Comments (24)

  • 11 years ago

    I think both can fill needs of the grower and buyer so they both survive. Seems even more so with SWD these days.
    I have not grown both that long, so it's hard for me to say without more experience. So far I have noticed that the summer crop seems to bear firmer berries, larger too, or should I say a more consistant size. Berry size seems to be more uniform on summer bearers. Also the summer bearers do produce more, with fall bearing only 1/3 of the plant produces, and with Summer 100% of the cane fruits.I have also noticed Summer bearing types seem to produce larger canes. With fall bearing apparently the crop is bigger in the fall if you mow them down. I would not know as I take the summer crop too! It also eliminates work removing the canes after the summer crop. It's more difficult to remove the dead canes with primocanes getting in the way. It's easier to manage the canes just taking one crop. I can conclude the fall crop would be bigger if mowed as the floricanes compete for food, space, and light with the primocanes.
    For me I like having both crops just to space out harvest longer from July through November. Both summer and fall bearing have cultivars that are early, mid, and late.

  • 11 years ago

    Hello there, I am by no means an expert however
    I grow both types and I too prefer to cut down my fall bearing raspberry all the way down around February or March. In my experience the summer crop that would be produced is not worth much and also they can concentrate more energy in growing strong new canes that will produce more fruits in the coming fall.As for productivity, obviously the weather plays a big part in it ,if you state your zone I am sure a lot of experts on this site will give you a more detailed feedback. If you are looking to expand your growing season you could plant different summer bearings that fruit at different time( early , middle and late)
    There is a pic of one of mine Autumn Bliss last November.
    Cheers,
    Sal

  • 11 years ago

    From what I've read, mowing down everbearing raspberries does increase the fall crop and is much easier, especially for the commercial grower.

    In fact, one extension page I read suggested mowing summer raspberries as an option as well. They just suggested mowing half the crop each year and then rotate. You'd only get a crop from the ones you did not mow the previous fall, of course. According to their research (wish I could remember the state extension-maybe Idaho), it actually only reduced production by 30% because they were very fruitful when they did produce.

    I recall my mother used to plant only summer bearing raspberries because she was concerned that in the cold climate she lived in she would not see much of a crop on everbearers.

    Hope that makes sense. I'm just putting in my first raspberry patch and so have also been doing much research, but have limited hands on experience :)

  • 11 years ago

    Here's some photos of mine

    Polka fall bearing (And i do grow summer crops with it too)
    {{gwi:48156}}

    On the far right is a raspberry bed 20 feet long. The first you see is Prelude, 7 foot canes. The left side is tomato plants. At the back are blackberry plants, in the foreground are strawberry plants. Netted is a blueberry plant. A robin keeps taking berries. It worked well! He took off!
    {{gwi:121601}}

    Here is a 2nd patch of raspberries on an east wall. They only get morning sun and lose sun about 1PM. Production is lower, but they still produce there. Plants do not look as green. I like this spot as runners never go under the sidewalk, it keeps them confined well!
    {{gwi:121603}}

  • 11 years ago

    I have fall bearing and my experience with the summer crop is not as positive as Drew's. I have tried it twice and won't do it again . Drew is a very knowledge berry guy and put a lot of work into them, I just let them grow and overgrow, that may be the difference in results.

    The fall bearing will have some SWD issues, but after it cools down that stops. I'll try traps next year to try to affect it in the heat. We eat them larva and all. The best Raspberry I have had was a summer, but the dude didn't know the variety.

    AS for cold hardiness, mine are not affected by frost, it takes a rel freeze to shut them down. Fall bearing = Heritage- easy and reliable, good taste.. Caroline- bigger berry sometimes better then heritage, bigger is more fun to eat and faster to pick... Anne- a gold raspberry. better flavor then Heritage. But I only have first year experience with it, ,

  • 11 years ago

    I have noticed some having small summer crops on fall bearing. I myself need more time to fully evaluate the summer crops. I have had only 3 summer crops for comparison. It may depend on location and cultivar.
    Prelude is a great example. The summer crop is so huge that it is called summer bearing, but every year mine has produced a fall crop too. This definitly is a cultivar that should be grown for both crops.
    I really like this cultivar, not the best berries, certainly not the worst. Acceptable flavor. Another excellent cultivar is Polka. This one in my experience is the best fall bearer for flavor. Caroline is right there too. Those are two worth having in every patch! Well unless SWD is a problem.
    As far as these having good summer crops, it appears they do not. Just average. Fall Gold has a decent summer crop , but one year it was small. Again I need more time to fully evaluate.Floricanes for all mentioned are in, so this summer I will have another harvest to compare.
    For a summer bearing gold, Cascade Gold is a winner, this is a very nice plant! At least in my location.

  • 11 years ago

    Thanks everyone, this is just the kind of feedback I was hoping for.

    I have made up my mind to go with summer bearing raspberries from now on. I have not been too satisfied with the ever bearing types, mostly since the crop is so spread out and much of it gets destroyed by early fall freezes in my climate.

    The only bummer about planting the summer bearers is not getting any crop until year two. I will likely try the annual "mow half the row" practice with these.

  • 11 years ago

    I really like the flavor of my two Fall-bearing raspberries, Anne and Caroline, but with the SWD issue, I no longer get a Fall crop. Along with that, neither patch of these varieties is growing that vigorously or is really that productive. I think I may replace the Caroline's with a summer bearing variety with the hope that I get better production. I have a smaller patch of Cascade Delight that is still under evaluation but they are looking pretty good this year so far. I'm think about either expanding the Cascade Delight variety or adding Prelude. The one hold back on Prelude is that I don't want a Fall crop that I have to remove...that's just extra work I would like to avoid. Any other summer varieties of red or yellow raspberries that anyone would recommend?

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Prelude might as well be everbearing. Cascade Gold is tasty, and big berries. Moderate performer. Also Allen black is not as good as Jewel, but it is an amazing producer, and produces about the same time as summer reds and yellows. I only use them though for jam, the blacks to me are not as good as the reds and yellows but the jam is excellent. Also this year I added a wild yellow cap. I got 7 plants and only one survived the winter. Interesting too, it was in a 30 gallon root pouch, left outside and it lived! Two planted in raised beds died. I don't think it was the winter, they just failed to thrive. happens from time to time.

  • 11 years ago

    jtburton- one summer bearer my family likes is Latham, plus it has the most beautiful foliage of any raspberry I've ever seen- purple/green iridescent. My wife also likes Purple Royalty which only bears on 2nd year canes, but you need room for that one, it grows huge multi branched canes.

  • 11 years ago

    My 2 cents here is that summer varieties put out big and hard for couple weeks 2 a month, as most who have experience with both know that most summers start around June 1st, and when they finish they are done so if you don't have several varieties including Everbearing you won't have berries from the end of May till killing Frost around 3rd week November....too me that is what is exciting about different varieties is that you literally can have Raspberries Non-Stop once they start, also you can have variety which is exciting in itself......my Heritage Everbearing Raspberry just started Flowering today !


  • 11 years ago

    I like having the availability of fresh fruit till frost as well but starting in August the SWD (e.g. fruit flies) ruin the raspberries. The Prime Ark 45's that I have seem to be a bit more resistant to SWD, I think that is due in part to their skin being tougher.

    I grow Purple Royalty, Black Mac, Jewel, Cascade Delight, Caroline and Anne. I also have a few others in testing, like Tulameen, Cascade Gold, and Rosanna.

    mhayes8655 - do you summer prune your Purple Royalty? Mine grow tall but don't seem to branch that much.

  • 11 years ago

    jt, did I send you some last year? I forget? Just wondering if all made it?
    It might have been another member here, I don't remember?


  • 11 years ago

    jt- yes, I summer prune mainly for management, or it could take up a huge area, my wife describes it as an octopus, or monster. It seems to want to tip layer, so the branches often grow much longer than the main cane, 8-12 feet laterals not unusual. Berries can be picked when red or allowed to become a deep purple, 2 distinct flavors, the wife's favorite berry. This will be our third season of berries and fourth having it in the ground

  • 11 years ago

    drew - You sent me two.. the Rosanna did not live but the Cascade Gold appears to be hanging on. It sent up a new cane but it died...looked like downy mildew or some type of fungus. I'm going to try to nurture it to success. Sounds like the trailing blackberries I sent you didn't live through the winter either. I didn't have any established trailing blackberries die but all got zapped by the -12F temperature this year. On the upside, all of the trailing berries are entering their 2nd full year and they are growing like crazy! I'll finally be able to try Columbia Star and Newberry.

    mhayes - That's sounds very interesting. I have never heard of a raspberry that has lateral branching that long. Do you have any pictures to share? On my Royalty raspberry plants, the primary canes cane reach 7ft but there isn't much branching but I haven't been pruning them either.

    All - Anyone try growing Nova, Taylor, Cowichan or Lauren summer-bearing raspberries?



  • 11 years ago

    I put in 5 Prelude and 2 Lauren from Indiana Berry this year. Besides the new canes coming up there are some shoots coming off the little foot high cane stumps, so maybe I'll get a few of each to try. I can definitely see the Titan connection in the Lauren canes... the clipped canes on the Lauren's were probably close to 3/4 inch in diameter compared to the Prelude's that weren't much more than a quarter inch. I like the fact that Lauren has a long fruiting season so if I decide I like them I can have berries from one variety for a nice long time. Also, they send up new canes from the crown so they won't spread like Prelude so even though the canes are bigger they should be easier to keep in check.

    If I get berries this year I'll report back, although I understand that I might not want to be to quick to judge based on first year berries.


  • 11 years ago

    JT,

    The Marion made it. All floricanes died, but new canes are coming up,
    Maybe we should try in the spring instead? Before they break dormancy.
    I have Taylor, it's a decent plant. And come over to Scott's site!
    Was it you who wanted the wyeberry? I found one that rooted in the spring. I didn't see it last fall. I moved it to a pot.
    I just ordered Newberry, but my Columbia Star will produce! Yea!


  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    black and purple raspberries must be pruned to promote berry size, I prune both Jewel and Royalty the same way. I pinch the growing tips ~42"( about the top wire on my trellis), I then pinch laterals at 12-18". I prune ALL laterals back to 12-18" the following spring, anything that has tip-rooted or died to due cold gets composted or pitched.

    http://extension.psu.edu/plants/gardening/fphg/brambles/pruning/black-purple-raspberries

  • 11 years ago

    jt, all mine are pruned back at the moment, I'll try to take a picture later in the summer when the new canes are going nuts. Like Molex said the long laterals like to tip-root but most of them die back over winter and get pruned off in spring

  • 11 years ago

    These are my Royalty...I don't summer tip them but they tend to be more erect than like my black raspberries which tip root easily. I don't think there is a single lateral branch on any of then canes...but on the up side they are currently blooming.

  • 11 years ago

    My Jewel black raspberries are in bloom as well.

  • 11 years ago

    Cascade Delight seems extra vigorous this year, which is encouraging. Last year they struggled with the winter temps and had a lot of cane die off.

  • 11 years ago

    After doing a bit more research, I decided to place an order for Nova Red Raspberry. They seem like a solid variety. I'm going to start them in pots and then after harvesting my Caroline's, I'll clean out that bed, add new and better soil and then plant them.

  • 11 years ago