Scarifying before packaging would defeat their goal of long shelf storage. Plus very few seeds require scarifying.

Dav

"Plus very few seeds require scarifying."

I sure wouldn't ever say that!!!! Depends on what seeds we're talking about.

Seeds that require scarification before planting are usually the large seeds with thick shells. In the world of seeds that group (primarily trees, shrubs, and a few wildflowers) is a distinct minority relative to the millions of seeds that do NOT require it.

Dave

I've dealt with hundreds of types of seeds and a good part of them (no, I don't have an exact percentage) benefited or required scarification of one type or another. Scarification is accomplished in nature in many ways (digestive tracts of animals, weathering, temperature fluctuation, etc, etc), but these processes are often bypassed or unavailable when we plant seeds ourselves. I don't know what your definition of "very few" is, Digdirt, but those words seem a complete misfit to my experience.

I also don't understand why you emphasis the word "require". The original poster to this thread didn't ask which seeds "required" (demanded) scarification. Scarification is something that experienced seed growers are very familiar with. Without it, many types of seeds experience a significant decrease in germination percentage. I think the original poster asked a perfectly valid question. Morz gave a good answer, but much more detail (including details on various procedures) is available with a quick Google search.

The reason I stressed the word "require" was because that is what I said in my initial post - the post you took issue with, the one with all the exclamation marks.

Of course the OP asked a perfectly valid question and it was answered using specific terms - very few seeds require scarification.

But history shows that you do love to nitpick at my posts so I simply reiterated what I said initially. So if you wish to debate the additional percentage of all seeds that might benefit from one of the many methods of scarification but do not require it, that is a whole different discussion.

Dave

I agree with Dave. Very few seeds require scarification. As a random example, I started asparagus seeds this year, which scarification is recommended and often stated as required, and I didn't do that. But I still got 40 out of 54 pots that sprouted up just fine. Morning glory is often stated to require it, but I've had success without doing so.

It can really benefit a lot of seeds to do various methods of scarification, but not a lot of them require it. Sometimes it just means a bit slower for the seed to germinate.

Although I do feel the need to point out that scarification and stratification are two different things, though stratification is often included in the definition of, or stated as a method of, scarification. There are more seeds that require stratification than scarification, but it's still a relatively low percentage compared to how many seeds don't require any treatment prior to planting- though there are more seeds that can benefit from stratification.

Back to the OP- no, store bought seeds are not normally scarified. Though I have read that sometimes geranium seed is, but I've never bought geranium seed to know that as a fact personally.

Digdirt, can you provide a reference to back up your position that "very few" seeds need scarification? I'd be interested to see that! In nature, many seeds get scarification. I've seen probably hundreds of research papers about the need in a specific species or group, but I can't recall seeing a generalized study.

Beesneeds, where have you seen stratification mentioned as a method of scarification? I sure wouldn't give much credence to such a source.

Oh, BTW, beesneeds, I guess if you stipulated that a 10% germination rate, or less, is acceptable, I might tend to agree more with Digdirt's statement. But, as you should be able to extrapolate from my initial statement, I don't generally think that. I'd also be surprised if very many people would.

Brandon, I've seen it sometimes here on GW that folks will call pretty much any treatment of seeds scarification. Perhaps it was my bad when in your post you mentioned temperature fluctuations I thought you were intending stratification instead of scarification. My apologies if I thought you meant something different than what you did.

As far as germination rates go. Right now I have asparagus that hit 88% germination (I've had more sprout in the last couple days), I've had morning glories range between 75-95% germination. I've had lower germination with moonflower, only 50-60%. Haven't scarified a runner bean yet and been just fine with germination.

I've dinked around with scarifying hardy hibiscus seed, but never noticed a difference in germination if I did so or not, so now I skip it. I have experimented with scarifying tough squash/gourd seed- and they did sprout faster with scarification, but the germination rate wasn't much different.

Scarification is more commonly needed for woody plants (trees, shrubs), but many other types require it too. It just depends on the specific type of plant. Most real common garden plants (crops, annuals, commonly-grown-from-seed perennials) don't require it. When seeds require scarification they are less likely to be found in the seed racks of your local big box, because they would be considered "harder to grow". Some online dealers like Sheffield's, Schumacher, etc do carry many types of seed that need to be scarified.

I so wish that morning glories needed scarification. In fact, I wish they required a two day stay in the gizzard of a dodo bird. My neighbor planted a half acre of the things, and now the whole community is getting covered over by the disgusting things. Yes, they have pretty flowers, but when the neighborhood is overran with them, they become disgusting.

Well then Brandon... why are you even arguing about it in this thread then? The OP question was about store bought seeds- those real common garden plants you are saying don't require scarification. And seeds that require scarification are less likely to be found in the seed racks. So in the context of the OP question, Daves answer of very few seeds require it is correct.

Dave's response didn't mention stores. He may have meant that, but he didn't specify it. Without that important caveat, I think the statement is misleading, and could easily lead someone into thinking that their seeds (which they previously believed needed scarification) really didn't need it.

There's a good chance that Stainsor's seeds did need scarification, since that was brought up. If I was Stainsor and read Dave's post, I would think that he was trying to tell me that my seeds were unlikely to really need scarification. Otherwise, why even bring it up?

Wow. Such a roundabout way of saying that most seeds bought in stores, which is what the OP was asking about, haven't been and don't need to be scarified.

Rodney

P.S. Dave's comments were perfectly clear to me.

OK, Forgottenone, you seem to be frisky to add your viewpoint. Can you explain how something was perfectly clear when it was not written? Unless you're a mindreader, it sounds like you just want to be rude, but maybe I'm missing something. I'm fairly sure that most people would not be able to extrapolate what you claim to be able to. Now how'd you do it?

Also Forgottenone, I'd be interested in why you think the original poster doesn't know what they are doing? It's likely, in my opinion, that since Stainsor ask for advice about scarificatioin, that the seeds would benefit from it. Stainsor likely based the perceived need on something! Why would you just assume that that was misguided? And, if you are going to say that you didn't make that assumption, then why on Earth would it be brought up in an answer?

I did not scarify any of the thousands of seeds of dozens of varieties of vegetable seed I planted last year and everything germinated without any issues. To say that it is necessary for most seed would definitely not be accurate. I have never seen it recommended on any labels either.

"To say that it is necessary for most seed would definitely not be accurate."
And that's why no one said anything like that, and I doubt anyone ever would!

"I did not scarify any...vegetable seed..."
Exactly as predicted above, although there are some edible vegetable crops who's seed benefit from scarification (the germination rate is increased, some significantly). Commercial growers of some legumes and certain other crops commonly use acid treatments to scarify their seed before planting.

Most garden vegetables have been domesticated for many, many generations. They have been bred to NOT require scarification. If you plant a field in the Spring, harvest it in the Fall, and then plant the some of the seeds you harvest, the seeds that have dormancy or require scarification tend to miss out. They may be waiting a couple years to sprout, by which time they may be considered weeds in what is now a corn field. Long lived trees and wild plants are much more likely to require scarification then vegetables or grains.

"Can you explain how something was perfectly clear when it was not
written? Unless you're a mindreader, it sounds like you just want to be
rude, but maybe I'm missing something."

No, not trying to be rude. The OP was asking only about store bought seeds. Do you really think someone, in this case Dave, is going to give an answer that is not tailored specifically to the type of seeds sold in stores?

But it doesn't matter at all what you, I, or anyone else thought somebody meant. It only matters what the OP thought and it'd be nice if the he/she responded back.

"Also Forgottenone, I'd be interested in why you think the original
poster doesn't know what they are doing? It's likely, in my opinion,
that since Stainsor ask for advice about scarificatioin, that the seeds
would benefit from it. Stainsor likely based the perceived need on
something! Why would you just assume that that was misguided? "

Not even going there. I never assumed, claimed, nor insinuated anything even remotely related to that comment.

Rodney

"It only matters what the OP thought..."

I totally disagree with that. IMO, what makes GardenWeb such a great resource is that EVERYONE can share and learn from each other. If responses are only meant for the OPs, then they might as well just be emailed directly to that member. I constantly see where people have done searches to find answers and where people recommend that others do searches to find answers. IMO, answers are for EVERYONE that can use them!

Sorry for the delayed response. I was specifically thinking of some sunflower seeds that I bought/planted last year. I got good germination rates and wondered if the seeds had been scarified prior to purchase. Based on the answers above it sounds like that is very unlikely. I wondered if I would have to scarify this year to expect germination rates as good as last year. Apparently not. In fact, I found some people online saying sunflower seeds don't need scarified anyway.

Also, for what it's worth I think there is truth in what both theforgottenone1013 and brandon7 TN_zone are saying. The reason to initiate a forum post is to answer the OP's specific question. But the reason so many people search forums is that we are usually not the first one to ask a certain question. I couldn't find anyone else who had asked this question so I asked it myself. I tried to word the question so it would be useful to others, but if I did not get my specific question answered satisfactorily I would consider that a fail.

stainsor, you are correct in assuming sunflowers don't need to be scarified. You will likely have your same good results as last year if your weather cooperates. You could speed up germination slightly if you soaked the seeds a few hours before planting to begin to soften the seed coat, permit water to reach the embryo but all in all sunflowers are not very demanding and its not required.

In my climate with plentiful rain, soaking isn't necessary. Protecting the sown seeds from chipmunks may be. I find little clumps of sunflowers sprouting in my beds all Spring and Summer long, just about as many seedlings as seeds in a chipmunks cheek full...someone's bird feeder I'm sure :)