This quote with all options is from same dealer?

What size units both AC and furnace(and eff) are you replacing? Any hot/cold spots in home? Comfort issues with existing?

Several glaring concerns strike me.

1. Why spend all that money on an upstairs system that you say is rarely used?

2. Why is dealer quoting an oversized furnace for upstairs system; if you want the XV80, then the smaller 60 K model size, even that is overkill. You would probably never use the high stage. I personally would look at the single stage XT80 with high eff blower in a 40 K size, I would also look at a correctly sized single stage condenser, maybe XR13, XR15, XR16. In fact I just don't like any of the dealer's quotes for upstairs at all, sizing or models.

3. I would want to see a load calculation for each zone, both cooling and heating, both upstairs and downstairs.

4. I would insist on pleated filter media cabinets for each system. I prefer Trane's Perfect Fit because it is simple and its name is very apt.

5. Where will the furnaces be located, attic and crawl space?

6. Wrong stat quoted for these 2 stage XV80 furnaces. Important to get a true two stage thermostat that controls furnace staging based on demand not a timer or algorithm that always goes to high stage whether needed or not. I would want HW Prestige 2.0 or better that offers two stage furnace control plus dehumidify on demand. WiFi available if interested. If you decide on the XT80 furnace that i recommend for upstairs, then Trane's 803 thermostat or exact same HW Mdl 8321. Does not have DOD feature though. Not a big deal considering use of this zone. I am not sure if that 624 thermostat for downstairs system is 2 stage or not or if it offers DOD.

7. I have no problem reusing existing linesets as long as they are in good conditioned, new insulation, and most important the correct size to the new HVAC.

All top end equipment. I probably would stay away from the XV18 because it is new model to the residential market and very little field history on these var speed condenser models.

As far as pricing and considering you are looking at two separate systems, dealer could do better. I like Trane but you should know exact same is available from sister company Am Standard usually less expensive. Regardless you need more quotes.

I have not checked to see if systems quoted are AHRI matching systems. I can do that when you make your final selections. Important but time consuming.

IMO

Thanks for your reply tigerdunes. Current A/C 2.5 ton up, 4.0 ton down, 10 SEER. Heat 36K up, 80K down. All options in my original post were from same dealer. He did also include quotes for XR13 & XR16 for up and down stairs. From comfort perspective, master bedroom is hard to cool in summer & that is whey he will be increasing size of supply lines in that room. Upstairs is also more difficult to keep cool that downstairs. Downstairs in general seems hard to keep consistently warm in winter months.

I will try to reply to your questions.

1. Since the upstairs is rarely used, you are right in that I should consider a less expensive unit like the XR13, XR15, or XR16 and save the cash.

2. I like your idea of the single stage XT80 with high eff blower in either 40k or 60k size. I am also good with your recommendation of a single stage XR13, XR15, or XR16. Do you lean towards one of them in particular? Is the basic difference in the three just the cost for the higher SEER units?

3. I have had quotes from 5 dealers. While all did a load calculation, none were willing to leave a copy. I guess they assumed I would use that information to shop with their competitors. All quoted 4 ton units downstairs, with the exception that one quoted 3.5 ton down. Three out of the 5 quoted 2 ton for upstairs, and the other two quoted 2.5 ton.
   
4. They all quoted Honeywell 4" pleated filter media cabinets. None quoted the Trane Perfect Fit.
   
   5. Furnaces will be located in attic.
   
5. Since I am good with your recommendation of XT80 & either XR13, 15, or 16 upstairs, my understanding is that you recommend HW 8321 or Trane 803. You mention those two stats do not offer DOD. While I agree that feature is not that big a deal because of the use of that zone, what stat would I need to go with if I wanted to have DOD upstairs? On the 2-stage units I am considering for downstairs you mention HW Prestige 2.0 or better. What are the (better) unit and what more features does it offer. I checked the specs of the TCONT624 stat & it says: Upt to 4 stages heat/2 stages cool. It also states it has built in humidity sensor. Says dehumidification (overcooling), but I don't know if if that is the same as "dehumidify on demand".
   
6. All dealers that provided quotes planned to reuse existing line set, so I assume they confirmed they are the correct size.
   
   I like the idea of consistent temps the XV18 offers, but as you mentioned I will likely veer away from that due to the little amount of history on it. That being said, since I will likely go with XR13, XR15, or XR16 upstairs, I will probably go with XR17 downstairs unless there is some real value in opting for the XL18i (I know it has 12 year warranty on compressor). I have duly noted your comments about American Standard. Once I nail down exactly what I want, with the help of your comments, I will seek quotes on similar equipment from AS.
   
   On the downstairs unit unit, are there pros and cons in going with a high efficiency coil? I assume no need on the upstairs unit??
   
   One more question. I understand the extended warranties are now offered through a 3rd party versus directly from train. I was strongly considering purchasing the ext warranty but now I am less certain. Any thoughts on that?
   
   Thanks again for your time and professional opinion.
   
   

Tigerdunes, I'm just checking in to see if you have any comments to add since I replied to your questions regarding my first post. I would appreciate your input. Thank you.

1. You have to weigh the cost difference versus SEER improvement with the XR13, XR14, XR15, XR16. My question is why pay for a higher SEER when that zone is infrequently used? Your decision though.

2. The XT80 is a good choice for the upstairs system. If you elect the 2 ton size condenser, then you can go with the 40 K size XT80. But if you go with a 2 1/2 ton condenser, then you would have to oversize the furnace and go with the 60 K XT80 because of the need for the larger blower on the furnace. Now if you insist on DOD feature, then you must have var speed furnace. That puts you back to the 60 K XV80, of course with correct thermostat. I personally don't think that's worth it considering the way that zone is used. Your choice though.

3. On the thermostat for downstairs system, let dealer know you want dehumidify on demand feature plus staged heat based on demand not a timer or software algorithm. Wifi if interested. See what dealer says.

4. You need to verify lineset size is correct for condenser size. Yes a big deal. Get it in writing.

5. Nothing wrong with the HW pleated media cabinet. It is light duty cabinet. The Trane unit takes a 5" filter and is a heavy duty cabinet that is made to fit Trane furnaces. I prefer the Trane if not more than a 100 bux over the HW Mdl.

6. Understand the ext labor warranty is only an insurance policy. I had it on my Trane system and the warranty just expired. Used it once. Did it pay for itself? The answer is no.

I assume the reason for the 80% eff furnace for downstairs is due to attic location. No crawlspace or basement possibility for a 95% eff furnace?

Any opportunity to improve insulation properties of small upstairs zone?

Hope this helps.

IMO

Thanks for your additional input tiger dunes.

1. I will check the pricing difference between the XR14 and the XR16 to get a point of reference. Are there significant differences between XR13, XR14, XR15, and XR16 from an equipment perspective, or the major difference just efficiencies between earch of them?

2. I will forgo DOD on upstairs unit. I will check pricing difference between 2.5 ton with 60K XT80 versus 2.0 ton with 40K XT80. In finalizing that choice is there any factor I should consider beyond price, or will both configurations be equally good?

3. I will convey details regarding DOD to dealer.

4. I will have dealer verify lineset is correct for condensor size.

5. I will check pricing difference for Trane Perfect Fit vs. Honeywell

6. Thanks for info on ext labor warranty.

7. I'm not sure about the reason for 80% vs 95% furnace, but none of the dealers quoted a 95% furnace. Is the 95% furnace physically larger in size? If so, that could be the reason.

8. On the downstairs unit should I go with a high efficiency coil?

9. I believe I have pretty well narrowed the choice for downstairs to XR17 or XL18i. Any words of wisdom on one versus the other? Would Honeywell VP IAQ be correct stat for that? If so, what would Trane equivalent be?

With you help, I think I am getting there.

Thanks again.

Hello tigerdunes, any comments on my last post. Thank you.

For me, it's just as important that you answer my questions as I answer yours. And believe it or not, the pros that provide help have a professional life outside this forum.

1. Any opportunity to improve insulation properties of small upstairs zone?

2. I assume the reason for the 80% eff furnace for downstairs is due to attic location. No crawlspace or basement possibility for a 95% eff furnace? You normally do not place a high eff 95%+ eff condensing furnace in an unconditioned attic due to possibility of freeze ups. Have you discussed with dealer?

The XR series of condensers are solid equipment. The major difference between the models I suggested is SEER assuming the correct Trane or AmStd evap coil is matched correctly.

I doubt the dimensions of XV95 is a factor. More likely the location of ductwork. Still this thought should be pursued with dealer. It would be fine to locate XV95 in a crawlspace or basement area as long as venting is possible. The ductwork though making the connection could be problematic. I don't know because I can't see job from here.

The major difference between the XR17 and XL18i is price, proprietary top, and extra 2 yrs on compressor warranty,

The HW Prestige 2.0 is the next generation to the HW VP IAQ thermostat. Ask Trane dealer to quote both along with best Trane equivalent. You are looking for the following: ability to handle accessories like humidifiers, dehumidify on demand in AC cooling, and staging furnace based on demand not a timer or software algorithm.

I think you should insist on a load calculation for correct sizing in heating and cooling for both zones. You should be involved in setting design temps as well both outside temps and inside thermostat settings plus humidity. If this is not clear, let me know.

Of course you can do the load calc yourself if you are comfortable using this software. I can advise a link if interested.

IMO

Tigerdunes, firstly I do greatly appreciate your time and all the info you have shared with me. It has been very valuable. I thought I had answered, or at least answered to the best of my abilities/knowledge, all your questions. I apologize if I have overlooked any of them.

1. Yes I do believe there is opportunity to improve insulation properties of the small upstairs zone. I will get an estimate on adding blown in insulation.

2. My only location option for the furnace is the unconditioned attic. I do not have a crawlspace or basement, so if that is a criteria for the 95% furnace then that is not an option for me.

Thanks for the clarification on diff between XR17 & XL18i, & the stats.

I will definitely give the load calc a go if you will provide the link, but I will also pursue that with another dealer. When you send the link if you can also discuss the pros and cons of a high efficiency coil, or how to determine when a high eff coil is needed I would appreciate it.

After that I will try not to reach out as frequently. I am new to this forum stuff. Again, I do appreciate your time and the info you have so graciously shared.