Butternut- Delete that first paragraph....trust me.

Lavender, I'll clarify it. I'm glad the inspection turned up the leak. But the future owners of my house will be just fine. It would have turned up anyway if it gor regular use as no one would drywall up next to the furnace. The former buyers would have been more than fine if they had bought the house because the plumber is coming by today to fix it and tm after that point there will be nothing wrong. I'm angry that I am the only one to have lost anything here. The builder, the idiot plumber who installed the thing, the real estate agent, and the former and future buyers have no regrets, but I'm out a ton.

Maybe I missed something, but how are you losing money because of this? You had your house off the market for a couple of weeks, but I don't see how that equates to tens of thousands of dollars.

Because I think there is very little chance of us getting another full price offer.

You didn't lose money, you lost a bit of time. Anyone who lets this deter them from buying a house was never going to buy it anyway. I would say they had buyer's remorse right after they wrote the offer and were praying the inspection turned up a problem.

Then this is a situation where you were counting your chickens before they hatched. The deal never happened, so you didn't lose any money. If someone had offered you a million dollars over asking and the deal fell through, would you think you lost a million dollars? Nope, you'd just think that their offer was unreasonable to begin with.
After all contingencies are waived, you can be fairly confident in a sale but don't consider it done until the closing happens.

Even though the official excuse for the deal failing is the inspection, it could have been because they realized that their offer was more than the house was worth. If nobody else is willing to pay you full price, then your house was never worth full price.

That's what we thought at first - that they got cold feet. But ur agent after talking to their agent now is telling us they really freaked due to mold, however crazy that is. So if not for the leak, the sale would have gone through. Now there are several more places on the market than there were 2 weeks ago, so if worth is solely determined by how much someone is willing to pay for it, then it was worth more 2 weeks ago than it is now, due to supply and demand.

I'm sorry, I'm just venting.

Butternut- More properties available, but also more people look for properties as we get closer to summer!

This will work out and you will find a buyer that is happy with your home and hopefully offers a price that will make you happy :)

"my realtor seems to have the report as she was able to send me the
photo and the description that the inspector gave. But her reasoning is
that I would have to disclose other things on it if I read it."

What is your Realtor's legal obligation to disclose known defects (known to her/him) to would be buyers? In some states the Realtor has the same or a similar responsibility to the seller to disclose material defects known to he/she, or which should have been known.

What SaltiDawg says.

Maybe the realtor really meant "you'll obsess and get worked up over all the little minor things that are in the report so it's probably in your best interest not to see it." but he/she is trying to be more diplomatic.
Maybe nothing else is significant enough to have to disclose.

But ur agent after talking to their agent now is telling us they really freaked due to mold, however crazy that is.

That still doesn't mean that it's the truth. The other agent works for the buyers. If the real reason wasn't the inspection, then the agent wouldn't/shouldn't say that because the contract was cancelled because of the inspection (officially). If you got evidence that it wasn't really because of the inspection, you technically might be able to go after them for cancelling the contract without just cause.

"If you got evidence that it wasn't really because of the inspection..."

I suspect it would be difficult, no, impossible, to prove what was in their mind.

That's why I said "technically". I don't think it would be possible to win, but it might be enough to give someone the idea that they should sue. It's better to just maintain the official reason as the real reason.

If your agent has read the report and there are material facts that would need to be disclosed by the seller, then it would need to be disclosed by her too. And I believe she is wrong in advising you that past fixes need to be disclosed.

You can not really do anything to bring the byers back. Let it go. Another will come. If I were you, I would take $400 of the $50,000 that your husband wants to reduce the price, and get an inspection done. Almost all sellers should do this. By not doing so, you are giving buyers leverage to negotiate, or terminate w/o needing to.

ncrealestateguy -> "If I were you, I would take $400 of the $50,000 that your husband wants to reduce the price, and get an inspection done."

I totally agree. Why would you not want to know things about your house that a potential buyer will find out in their inspection? Why would your real estate agent would advise you to do this is beyond me.

The first house I ever sold was 100 years old. It had some great bones and it looked great on the inside but it was a wreck. Roof, gutters, windows, water in the basement, 70 year old furnace with asbestos, etc etc etc. The agent advised us to get an inspection. It went on for pages! We copied it and put it out on the dining room table so people coming to look had a copy that exposed all the warts. The house sold in 2 weeks.

Fast forward to today. Our agent advised *against* getting an inspection. The house is 18 years old, well maintained. Newer roof, updated mechanicals, upgraded finishes, etc. He said "you don't really want to find anything at this point." I knew where trouble might lurk.

Our house got offers within 4 days. The buyer's inspection went OK and we ended up fixing a couple of issues for a couple hundred bucks. The big issues I was thinking about weren't on there. Does that mean the inspector missed them? Or does it mean my imagination was running away from me?

We close in about 3 weeks hopefully.

I would not get my own inspection on a 2 year old house.

I've seen two year old homes with just as many issues as a 100 year old home.

I don't doubt that's true, but I would be really surprised if that was the case for my house.

If there were huge other issues, why would they have cited the silly tub drain as the reason why they were cancelling the contract? Why wouldn't they have said the walls are crumbling, the roof is leaking, the basement is flooded or whatever?

I am inferring that the tub leak was the largest issue on their report, I guess.

Anyway, we have a few showings tomorrow but I guess it's a slow weekend given it's Easter. Wish me luck.

"mold growth, the development of moisture related wood rot and conditions conducive to termite infestation" are not words that potential home buyers want to hear. Had this condition been pre-identified, addressed and this wording not included in the home inspection do you think the deal would have gone through?

Who knows. Since the tub is fixed now and there was never any mold, rot, or termites it's hard to say what they thought. Maybe they are paranoid or maybe they are naive or maybe they just wanted out of the deal. Who knows. Either way, it's clear that most people here and in real life think this is all my fault. I should have known to price my house lower or have a per inspection even though we have never had a single issue. I am moving on. Don't have much choice at this point.

I don't read anyone saying it's your fault. It's a lot of people saying "yeah, it sucks, but move on and don't waste any more mental energy on this." You can't change the past, so look to the future.

I agree with weedy. And, I also think you should delete the first paragraph she advised you delete (where you say you don't care at all about future families living in your house). To me, that line alone would be reason not to trust any "fix" you agree to after an inspection.

And, some people are just paranoid when mold can be involved. What they don't realize/understand is that mold is everywhere. But, I have a friend who is uber-paranoid about mold, and I can't get her to understand otherwise. Someone else will come along for your house. Keep your attitude up, though, so there is no emotional sabotage of a future offer.

(and, delete that paragraph above).

I wouldn't delete the paragraph. The reason you do a proper repair is to ensure a successful transaction and mitigate future liability. Every person puts their needs above the needs of strangers. It's called rational action. If this in some way surprises you, then I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I care more about my neighbors than I do about an unknown third party buyer, and I don't care about them enough to accept a lower offer.

If you are trusting a previous owner to make additional financial sacrifices for the well being of strangers then you deserve what you get. That is not to say you should distrust them, but certainly realize if there are two acceptable fixes available sellers will choose the most financially beneficial.

"If you are trusting a previous owner to make additional financial
sacrifices for the well being of strangers then you deserve what you
get."

Really? There something like ethics, morality, karma, whatever you may want to call it. That's like saying that people only follow the rules to avoid getting caught.

WTH! I didn't say I wished bad things on anyone. I will fix things to the best of my knowledge and whatever agreement I come to with a subsequent buyer. But the thing is that there was very little wrong with the tub drain. It was a slow leak that either would never have caused a problem or would have been obvious with frequent use of the tub. I'm not wishing anyone harm. I'm just saying I think all parties would have been happier if the inspector had not freaked out the buyers about mold and we could have sold our house and they could have bought it. Obvioisly they somewhat liked it or they wouldn't have offered on it in the first place. But I still think I lost the most in the whole debacle.

I'm not trying to screw anyone or do anything dishonest. But yeah, I care more about me and my family than strangers. That doesn't make me a jerk or immoral.

You don't have an ethical duty to put the interest of others above your own interest, unless you have some agency to them. If you did then everyone who eats anything more expensive than ramen noodles would be in violation of their ethical responsibility as there are people in the world that are hungry. A person's self interest will always outweigh the interest of others.

Lets do a test scenario: If a buyer made an offer for your home but wanted a rusty galvanized pipe that was near the water heater repaired, as they really don't want any corrosion in the house. The plumber lets you know that the problem is that during the installation of the water heater a dielectric union was not used which caused some galvanic corrosion. Odds are the remaining pipes were not adversely effected by this incident but to be sure he would have to tear out a lot of walls including the tile shower surround and take a good look inside the wall. He doubts you will find anything of any real note and further tells you that galvanic corrosion between copper and galvanized pipe is usually deemed to be tolerable as the corrosion is slight. In rare circumstances, however, it can be moderate but even then will only become a problem over period of many years. However, since he fixed the problem it will halt any additional corrosion and since you don't have any leaks you really don't have any reason at all to do the work. You are under significant pressure to get out of the house as soon as possible, and not selling the house fast might ruin you financially. What would you do?

There are millions of people in this world that I would like to help, but I put living my own life comfortably ahead of doing so. Am I a bad person? Maybe. Is karma going to smack me in the head because I don't give 95% of my salary away to others? Maybe. Are you a better person than me because while not doing these things either you criticize me for being frank about it? Nope...

OP- it's perfectly normal to be upset that a sale fell though. But do yourself a huge favor and move on- all this woulda shoulda coulda is damaging to your health, especially as it serves no constructive purpose whatsoever.

It was this part:
"then you deserve what you
get" that I object to.

I was referring to the generality of bry911's response, not the specifics of this case, that you only fix something to avoid legal liability. You also have a moral obligation to fix something so someone does not suffer physical harm. I'm assuming that bry911 does not mean that it's ok to willingly not disclose a serious problem which potentially could harm people as long as one can get away with it.

However, we're digressing from the OPs post.

Bry- Your attitude seems more extreme than your example. Self-interest above all else is going to spread beyond this minor pipe replacement concern.

Your example suggests a reasonable chance that no other work needs to be done....."Odds are the remaining pipes were not adversely effected by this
incident but to be sure he would have to tear out a lot of walls
including the tile shower surround and take a good look inside the wall.
He doubts you will find anything of any real note and further tells you
that galvanic corrosion between copper and galvanized pipe is usually
deemed to be tolerable as the corrosion is slight"

But your attitude seems to be "every man/woman for themself" so what would you do if you replaced that pipe and the plumber told you there was sever corrosion that needed to be replaced right away...for the health of anyone living in the home. But since you're selling, you decide to not do it and let the 'next guy' deal with it.

If you mention it, you are disclosing a problem and need to fix it. If not, you're causing potential, serious health risks to buyers, especially with small children. And this is something you know will NOT show up in a normal home inspection.

So....what do you do now???

First, I am admittedly leaving out one important part of the rational choice theory and that is the idea that we all need to believe that we are good people. I left this out because it is best not to consider it in any big money item. The previous homeowner will want for the next homeowner to think kindly of them, and we all have a need to feel like we are basically good people. I leave the explanation of why that is to the sociologists and psychologists. That will aid in the decision making process of the selling homeowner right up to the point that it doesn't, when the seller reaches a point that the perceived cost of full disclosure outweighs the benefit of the next homeowner thinking they are a bad person or being able to live with what they have done they will abandon the next homeowner to their own self interest. This doesn't make them a bad person, the process is usually called rationalization and we all do it subconsciously.

The difference between someone who is ethical and unethical is largely how far they will go before self interest kicks in. Having said all that you should never count on self interest being abandoned in a home sale. Even in this post we have people who are saying that the owner should not look at the inspection because they don't want to know what is wrong with the house. If you are claiming putting your own interest ahead of others is unethical then not looking at a report for fear of having to disclose what you read, is a lot worse than doing a repair to the standard that will avoid future litigation.

The example I gave was not extreme for a reason. Extreme examples are easy. In my scenario, there are only two relevant facts and a whole lot of justifications and rationalizations. Fact 1: they really don't want any corrosion in the house. Fact 2: You could have corrosion. Everything else is there to help rationalize superseding their decisions with yours. You are not a bad person if you would have used your judgement to decide not to tell them, it is rational for you. Nor if you would have told them are you a good person. In fact, with all the justifications I made one could argue that you are failing in your primary duty to provide benefit for you and your family. I won't argue that, because you might believe that setting a good example and holding your head high when you look back is more important than your kids being able to have the things they need.

All of this really just says: It is your duty to protect your interest and don't be naive enough to think that a non-agency, unrelated third party is going to do it.

Without getting into philosophy, let me update to say that on Saturday we accepted another (full price) offer on our home with our preferred closing date. This buyer is also a client of my real estate agent - she says she will make sure that he doesn't freak out during inspection. And obviously she will be quite motivated to do that since she's a double agent!

I sincerely hope that there's nothing majorly wrong with my home. And if there is anything else minor wrong with my home, that the buyer doesn't misinterpret it as major.

Cross your fingers for me!

OP, congrats on the offer. Remember, the fact that the last buyer was able to terminate the contract and retain their deposit is the result of a contract that was agreed upon by them and YOU.

Hope this one goes through. You made the repair and before there were any major problems. That's a plus for your buyer and your agent knows that If something happens, though, don't panic. You won't lose $50K because an offer doesn't go through or because there is more on the market -- unless you were overpriced in the first place. Going on the market too high can mean you sit and take less than you should have in the long run, but your second full price offer makes it sound like that is not an issue.

Congrats on the new offer!

Either way, it's clear that most people here and in real life think this is all my fault.

Nobody here said it's your fault. We were just trying to get you to look at the situation in an appropriate, healthy way instead of dwelling in the past and being angry and/or sad.

The comments about being overpriced were based on the fact that you thought you'd never get another full price offer. We obviously have no idea and it was purely speculation since we don't know anything about your house or what you're asking price is. All comments were IF you're overpriced.

And the pre-inspection point is obviously controversial where some people think it's a good idea and some people don't. So just take it as a suggestion and you can decide whether it's something that you'd like to consider for your specific situation.
The ethics conversation ... well it's really just a total drift away from your situation and you probably shouldn't take it personally. Thread drift happens a lot on forums.

So congrats again! How long do you have to wait for the contingencies to be waived and when is closing?

Inspection is today. I've got my fingers and toes crossed.

Not sure if anyone is still following, but real estate agent says everything went great today. Only comment was that the ac "sounds weird" but I guess that's covered under some sort of home warranty we signed up for, and buyer doesn't have an issue as long as it is inspected/repaired. Just now waiting for appraisal. Husband has calmed down a bit, though still thinks we are overpriced and exceptionally lucky.

This place is my baby and I know my emotions get out of control regarding it. Thanks for letting me vent.

There's always a chance the AC only 'sounds weird' to the inspector too, it may need no repairs. The man who inspected my house told the potential buyers the electric back up furnace to the heat/AC heat pump didn't work and needed immediate attention. It worked perfectly, he didn't know how to use the computerized thermostat to test.

Congratulations, I hope the rest of your transaction goes smoothly and all the right numbers show up on the appraisal. And that your husband continues to consider himself lucky too ;) It's hard not to get emotional about your house sometimes, just try to remember its a business deal, nothing personal. I was fine selling my house to a down-sizing couple even though I had expected to attract a young family. I had no qualms about them moving in and enjoying it. A year later when they told the neighbors they didn't like it, that it was too small and they weren't comfortable, listed it for sale again...then I was mad and began to take it personally. But all ended well, there is a nice young couple in the house to fit in with the neighbors now.

Hope it goes well from here on out.

I have decided most people are just plain nuts. The good thing is, they all still need a place to live. So theres some place for everyone!

yay for you! hope the rest goes smoothly:)

How is your transaction going?

I think it's going ok...thanks for asking!

We've signed off on the repairs needed due to the inspection. The air conditioner was fine. The inspector also wanted the furnace checked and cleaned. We did that and the repair person was confused as to why we were asking for him to fix our furnace when there wasn't anything wrong with it. So $100 for a receipt that says our furnace is fine. He was also not pleased with some grading on the side of the house, so our landscaper will fix that.

We haven't had the appraisal yet. My agent assures me it won't be a problem. I'm worried because our neighborhood is glutted with homes about our same price but 10-15 years old and in need of updating - cosmetic stuff - but these homes are larger than ours and are sitting and not selling. (Part of the appeal of our house versus other newer houses in the area, though, is the established neighborhood/landscaping/location, so it's a catch-22).

The buyers are apparently making noise about wanting to close earlier than our specified date. We can't move any earlier since we have jobs and contracts to uphold. We have 2 very small kids (3 and 1) and a dog, so moving out earlier than planned but staying in town would not be a small or easy prospect.

Other than backing out, I think I'm correct that they have no way to force us to close earlier, since we've signed the agreement for the original closing date? I guess part of it is that they want to lock in their interest rate. We have verbally told the agent that we could do a rent back if they want to close earlier, but it would be as a favor to them, and therefore they shouldn't expect a price break. Owning this house is just not that expensive for us, as our mortgage is smallish and our interest rate low.

We gave our buyers the exact closing schedule they asked for when they made the offer. We didn't want that to be a point of friction. A few weeks later they came back and asked for an earlier closing. We just simply said we would discuss later but not earlier. No drama or anything. They chose to stick with the date they had originally requested.

Like you, we have a lot of moving pieces here which I am trying my best to juggle. Just keep moving ahead as if is happening on the current schedule. Don't try to give them too many options. I bet it just goes away like ours did.

Glad to see you are still moving forward!

You might have your agent talk to theirs about what the motivation is. If the closing date is an issue of a mortgage lock, they might be satisfied to close and lease back to you for the time until the original closing date so they get 15-30 years at a better interest rate. If they actually want possession, that's a different issue and if you can't do it, you can't do it. If it would be a matter of additional expenses, you could let them know what it would cost (and you would expect them to make you whole on) to deal with hotels, eating out while out of your home, furniture storage or any other out of pocket costs.

They might be asking because they have a buyer who wants a shorter close, they are living with friends or family and now that they found a house want it right now, want to get someone in to paint or change flooring before they move -- so many possible reasons and most of them are just asking situations. I would also assume you are on the original schedule unless they present a critical need to close earlier. That's the contract they have too.

My agent is their agent. She says they are just excited to move in. I haven't received any official communication from them though, so it may be that she was just asked to float the idea and see what our response was.

We would be ok with rent back for the same money. Everyone has their price, but moving earlier would come with a very high one for me!

Yeah, if it's just a we can move earlier if it works or you, easy enough to let them know it doesn't work for you and wouldn't be a simple change. They should have the house for a long time to come, so a couple of weeks shouldn't be a problem. Good luck with all you have to wrap up and the move.

correct me if I'm wrong here (I also just sold my place and got a new place) but when you agree to change closing dates, you'd have to redo the agreement and that opens up a can of worms..

Not unless your location has some special requirement. You can amend a contract and do not have to start over.

Correct... one page amendment, here. As long as the lender and attorney are ok with the new, earlier date.

In my experience of buying and selling five houses, home inspectors range from mildly incompetent to dangerously ignorant.

I haven't read many of the responses, just want to wish you well now that you have another buyer.