ok will do. That's easy enough!

I mix pulverized eggshell with corn meal and they seem to love it.

Just to emphasize yesterday I added a combo of eggshell and cornmeal to both bin feeding trays and today when I went back to check the worms were in mass everywhere the mix was. It had been a while since I gave them a doze of this stuff. I had put down a good layer too not just a sprinkle job and today it looked like a sprinkle job since they had eaten that much of it. Besides the fact they like to eat it , it is my understanding that they need this grit in their guts to help them process what they eat. Does it actually help in that way I dont know , its hearsay but take it for what its worth and how they react to it.

I usually wait till I have accumulated enough egg shells before I make this mix up. My sister also saves her egg shells for me so it might be 2-4 weeks between feedings of this. So what are the worms after when they feed on the mix is it the cornmeal more than the egg shell maybe but still they are getting egg shell too as it is in a pulverized form. I first put my eggshells in the microwave for 4-5 min. but you could do it in a toaster oven or oven , then they go in my food chopper till they are pulverized as small as I can get it. I just have a cheapie chopper so it doesnt turn into a powder just finely grained mix. This is how you want it to be so they can eat it quickly. When you add this mix its like ringing the dinner bell to worms.

hummm. I'll start savings the egg shells. I usually crush by hand and add to the compost container, occasionally pulverizing a couple for the worm bin, every once in a while.

When you all are '...saving up the shells', is that in the fridge or just on the counter?

For me its either , both , or in the garage.

Thanks Steve.

So, let me understand this eggshell/cornmeal use. It appears that there is general agreement that eggshells and cornmenal acts for worms like oysters act for humans. Operating on that assumption, lets conduct a little experiment. Liberally feed the worm factory a normal feeding of mashed bananas; wait 2 weeks and then count the worm castings per square inch. Then feed a mix of crushed eggshells of the same volume; wait two weeks and count the worm castings per square inch. Hopefully, the best food for worm reproduction should produce the most cacoons; but the last experiment might have more adult worms laying eggs. I give up; I am going to buy some oysters.

You first :-D

What gerris said. :-)

For some reason, postings on this new.....Houzz.....have ceased to be posted to my emails. Anybody else notice this?

cb2 - check your profile settings - upper right corner, "Your Houzz".

I've really enjoyed this line of discussion. Thanks Mary for starting something that is such a central focus for vermiculture.

I've done the ground egg shells but I was under the impression it was an alternative to sand that people talk about for the worms gizzard. This is he first time I've heard it talked about for reproduction. I'm curious if the cornmeal just attracts them as something sweet and as they all roll around one another they find mates because they're so close to one another. I've seen people make he argument that too much food reduces reproduction because the worms interact less. This seems like the same argument but from the other side of the fence. Basically, more work interaction means more baby worms.

The burlap is also interesting. I'm curious if it really improves the rate of reproduction or if it just centralizes where the cocoons are dropped. This is something I would hope a university research group would investigate so there are controls and replicates. Alas, too much of vermiculture is left to anecdotal evidence. (Sorry a pet peeve of mine).

This is all very interesting though so thank you again Mary for starting this topic up again.

Worms love cornmeal. They'll always herd up around it. It provides calories and fats that make it easy to reproduce. Hungry worms (in fact most species) can't reproduce at optimum levels without enough food. In addition, since it draws so many other worms, if they're in the romantic mood, well, availability is high.

They also like eggshells. Partly because it's good for their crops, partly because they just like it, but it also provides calcium that they need. Calcium also helps to balance pH in the bin.

Bins will always get a little dry on the tops of the bedding. Damp burlap helps keep that very top damp. My worms love to hang out between the top of the bedding and just under the burlap, if I'm using it. It also provides a rough surface to deposit egg cocoons on.

I have 6 bins and I have found that the bins that are overly wet actually have higher worm counts. I'm not sure why this is but I think due to the water sitting in the bottom of the bin (I know the conditions are not great) they will stay near the surface where I put lots of ground up food and they seem to congregate in the food.

The two that are more on the dry side have very little population growth by comparison. I tended to these beds more often to keep them from having standing water by adding cardboard and coffee grounds (used then dried) to absorb water. I eventually let these bins get more moist and they also had population booms. All of these bins get the same type of food which is leftovers from my juicer which I use daily.

For those 4 I mentioned all the beds have Burlap and 3 were created the exact same way. The other 2 bins I have are very different and I can't use in a comparison way as they are much larger and have drainage to keep them from getting too moist. Granted I still find the smaller bins build up with worms faster.

An old thread about comfrey recently resurfaced and reading through that thread it seems that comfrey is nirvana for worms. I happen to have a comfrey plant and will add some leaves today to see if I can stimulate worm production. My bins still have not rebounded from the removal of some worms last April. Stay tuned! Anyone currently posting here like comfrey in their beds?

I don't think too-wet conditions are a big deal to worms. The fattest worm I've seen yet was at the bottom of a bucket of composted horse manure which had flooded from rain. I've read that they like 70-80% water conditions, and my observations haven't disproved this yet.

Our objective is normally, and should be, to provide conditions conducive to reproduction of masses of worms....not the fattest. Worms tend to become complacent and stagnate down in the swamp that is the bottom of a too-wet bin.

Years of studying these creatures has proven to me that they tend to lose all self-respect...much like we humans...when given the choice of doing what's right for their fellow worms, or wallowing in the murk and mire that we call excess.

I have noticed that they breed when still comparatively small, at least the ones I've seen doing the nasty. I think the big ones may be out to pasture and who can blame them. Whether it's making a crazy straw for two, or a writhing tennis ball for a thousand, worm reproduction would wear anyone out.

About 6 wks. ago I ground up (old coffee grinder) some oat seeds, some of which had sprouted from getting wet. The worms loved it and now when I look in that particular bin, not only do I see lots of healthy looking worms, I see tons of cocoons! Don't know for sure that it's the oats but that's my best guess at this point. Maybe I should try the same in one of my other bins and see if results are similar.

Harry

I am still regretting my under-purchase of worms (1/2 lb, seven weeks ago-ish) and just about ready to provide whatever romantic atmosphere the worms need to get busy(ier). I know they're doing just fine, and I have definitely seen baby worms appearing (although I have yet to locate any major cocoon stashes), but I'm rapidly learning that I produce way more organic waste than I thought I would (turns out having a garden, even a teeny one with barely anything in it yet, will do that) and I'm impatient to have enough worms to actually deal with it all.

The worms do seem to like to splash around in any damp areas they find in the bin, but I think that's more in the nature of a worm spa than a worm bathhouse, ifyouknowwhatImean. It's probably best not to inquire what they're up to when they decide to form into a writhing mass. The mathematics involved in a hypothetical worm orgy still have to proceed in twos, as far as I know, although I could swear I've seen some polygons forming at times.

Barry White music, candlelight, ground oats and avocado, the worms will be fruitful and multiply. Ok, just kidding about the first 2 ingredients haha.

A little trick: because worms rub eggs off their bodies (neck areas) on anything in the bin to rub against, if you put a little wooden bit of material into the bin some wormies will do the rubbing against that thingie. There'll be a plethora (a few more than elsewhere) around that area. If not, put something harder...like a rock...in there. (just kidding about the rock, but not the hard place).

chuckiebtoo

Gerris 2 (Joseph)--I got a laugh imagining those worms dancing to Barry White music. :-D

harry757,

I use a mixture of 2 parts ground oats, 1 part cornmeal, and 1/2 part ground egg shells (by volume, not weight), and the worms seem to love it. Directions in the recipe said to feed sparingly, so I have been using ~3/8 tsp every other feeding. This is in a 10 Gallon Rubbermaid tote.

You also need to make sure the bedding is damp before sprinkling on top (not advised to mix in with other food as this can cause heating). I just do a little spritz with a spray bottle on top of the bedding where I plan to sprinkle it. I've only done this twice so far, so not sure if it increases production/health.

Any follow up on the comfrey? Did it work?

In a prior thread I heard that cooler temps might trigger them to lay a bunch of eggs (maybe in fear of their population tanking due to extreme colds). Someone mentioned alternating cool and warm environment. I haven't tried it myself. Don't know if it works.

I'm just going to come back on here every few weeks and whine about how I didn't order enough worms to start out with. Everyone feel free to ignore me.

There's an advantage to starting with a very small herd - you really learn how to build the population and balance the bin environment. When you don't have very many to start with, you really see what makes a difference, and what works and doesn't work in under your climate and conditions. That experience is very valuable later when you really do have a larger herd.

Excellent rationalization! I shall start using it right away. :-)

parsley, I may be able to help, I don't see a way to PM or anything on here. Do you want to give me your email in this post then we can edit it out. I don't see any other way of sharing it?

Priswell, you make a good point. If a person can get a small bin, down to merely a bucket, to thrive, then a larger bin with more worms would be much easier. Things go bad (or good) quick in a small environment. Not so in a big blue rubbermaid, with room to roam.

As for population growth, i like to supplement with new campers (various native worms drawn to damp cardboard in my yard). Since they are all hermaphrodites, new dance partners are easily found. I just assign my new campers to the least active bins, with exception of the occasional night crawler which goes to my biggest bin. Night crawlers grow surpassingly sexy (buff, confident, large, luminous) after only a short spell in an enriched bin environment, and I fear the red wrigglers may become impotent from prolonged exposure to them.

Gerris2 (Joseph), do you mean the avocado fruit or the shell? I have read about them gathering in the shell of an avocado, maybe hoping they are feeling frisky?

Also, kind of wondering, what is it about oats that increases their reproduction?

Damn, I love how wormers espouse how worms can best thrive, and reproduce, & more quickly expand their worm bins, or BINS, or expanses of worm-laden territories. It ain't rocket science, vermiherders.....feed em (almost anything), make their environs palpable to a worms' extremely satisfying condition requirements, don't drown em, or fry them, or suffocate them.

They WILL thrive.

We (peeps who write about how WE grow worms) know how WE grow worms.

After 20+ years of doing this using all kinda different ways (all working well), I can testify that only complete impatience resulting in extremism techniques cause less than good results.

I do agree that for newbies, starting small is the way to go, ya'll.

The best advice I can give: Moderation, Diversity, Patience. (That has been my motto since....1990something.)

chuckiebtoo

Oh, I know I'm just going to have to tough it out, and by this time next year I'll be looking around for someone to take surplus wormage off my hands. It's just natural to feel impatient. Thanks for the offer of help, potato, but I think my herd will grow along just fine.

No, I don't honestly think there are any special wormy aphrodisiacs or fertility drugs. Beyond just giving them a good home and all the worm chow they can eat, I don't think any of these measures designed to "enhance reproduction" actually do anything to make the worms breed more.

They always do manage to get the cocoons off their necks; giving them a nice skritchy place to do it just makes some of the cocoons concentrate in a place where you can see them. I notice a lot of little worms crowding around corn meal and probably the same is true of oatmeal, etc; it can't be that the corn meal suddenly makes more worms get born within hours of my putting it in the bin, just that the younger worms are especially voracious for it and that makes them cluster up in a way that's readily visible to me. These measures are appealing because the worms are awful good at hiding what they're up to most of the time. Basically it's all about keeping the human worm-herders entertained and encouraged.

baldeagleomelette, sometimes I wonder if maybe you like your worms a little *too* much...

Parsley, the only way that would be true is if i suddenly identified as a dentrivore and climbed into a bin :D
Not there yet...

To get that mental picture out of our heads, here's a nice photo of a cocoon with a baby worm inside:

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000bc5J9HdDz1Y/s/750/750/056-2010-10-15-135.jpg

Awesome, Parsley!

I started with very few worms a few months ago and now my bin is swimming in worms. Seriously, I fear over population! But I live in Mexico where the climate is idea all year long. I do grind up eggshells for them and feed them very regularly everything you can imagine but I think they like mango peels the best. I don't give them corn meal per se, but yes to old tortillas, rice (cooked and buggy uncooked), stale corn flakes, bread, and lots of fruits and veggies. The only thing they didn't like were the nopales (cactus paddles) which turn into a gelatinous liquid. So thumbs up on eggshells and grain, and a wide variety of spoiled this and that.

@theparsley I agree with you. i only got 200grams of worms to start coz i was afraid my first bin would be wrong somehow and I will kill all the worms. well, the bin was fine, but I took a trip and the heat killed most of my worms. so now im torn between the following options:

- give up (as of last night, i might have maybe 10-20 worms only in the entire bin)

- see how fast those worms can reproduce

- buy more and add to the bin to help the entire process along

but i do fear the next heatwave and putting it into my house has stopped being an option for many reasons now include space constraints (where did all my empty kitchen space go?!!?)

What would you have done about the heat if you had been at home? I feel like any condition where you have to be standing over the bin all the time to correct it, is probably not sustainable over the long term.

If you really can't have the bin indoors, what about an outdoor bin or box that's outdoors, in shade with no "floor," and part buried in the earth? That would have some thermal inertia at least, the worms could seek cooler layers nearer the ground if they got too hot.

I was reading solutions to the heat, from frozen daily feed or no feeding - just damp newspaper to reduce their decomposition and heat in the bin.

Ah I live in an apartment, so no earth unfortunately. Im also thinking now of getting those windshield things to reflect the heat away from the bin too. I could attach it to the wall behind the bin

I have my 3-tray worm factory in my shed, so no direct sunlight. When I open the door to the shed it is not dreadfully hot since it is also shaded by a couple of large trees. I spray a little water on the covering layer of shredded newspaper in the feeding tray to keep it damp. My worms seem to be doing fine as of yesterday. We have had temps in the mid to upper 90s this summer in Northern Virginia. I thing the key is shade and damp bedding.

phoneix-fj - Any chance you can keep your bin under a desk or bed if you're stretched for space? My homemade bins are on a book shelf. As for the heat, I've read that some people put a frozen bottle of water wrapped in paper in the bin to keep it cool. The next time you're away, could you place a bottle or two of frozen water inside the bin or directly under it if you don't want it inside?

Thanks miscel(6) - the frozen bottle idea sounds brilliant. Esp if I put it under the structure so I can refreeze it Will have to try that next time a heatwave comes along

phoenix, I'm not sure that having the cold bottle under the bin will do much good since any cool air coming off will sink down and away from your bin. Why not place the frozen bottle in a zip-loc bag first and then place on top of your bedding, that should provide the cooling you need. When the ice has melted, just remove the bottle from the Zip-loc and place it back into the freezer for the next time you or your worms need it .

Harry

...and the ice bottle will produce a little condensation which will benefit the bin also. I've been using frozen water bottles for years. And I live in Texas where the temps live around 100 all summer.

chuckiebtoo

Ah okay, will take note for the next heatwave. Thanks very much for the advice

BTW Parsley, that is quite an amazing picture of a worm cocoon (posted July 6) - never seen a close-up like that before! Thanks,

Harry

Just to be clear, I didn't take that picture! Far beyond my photo capabilities. I can only take credit for finding it. (I wonder if the baby worms in the cocoon reacted to the light used to take the picture??)