Do you know the varieties or names of the roses.

The two in the sun garden are Golden Celebration and Graham Thomas. The climber is the Generous Gardener and the shrub rose in the sand is Bonica.

The experts will answer soon. Since GC and GT are heat and sun lovers it looks like a soil issue. Do you have a place that can do a soil test from the area where roses aren't growing.

And this island is where? I am going to assume Washington or B.C., and the roses are own-root.

A lot of modern roses like HEAT. A rootstock helps them grow vigorously at lower temperatures. Bonica doesn't seem to care that much, so that is the scenario that fits the description.

Patty- I was just contemplating if I should send in a soil sample to UMASS. Perhaps they will have something I overlooked.

Mad- Block Island, is an island off the coast of Rhode island. We are a temperate zone 7.

Well. same thing. How many days over 85 do you tend to get? Roses are a lot like corn. Humid and temperatures over 90, and you can practically watch it grow. Temperatures in the low 80s' and it practically sits there.

Well that is just confusing since on the David Austin page they list both GC and GT roses as reliable growers for zone 4+5. It is humid here practically all the time but weather over 85 depends on the year the past two maybe a week or two. I also noted on their website they listed them as good roses for part shade. So now I am really confused, guess I will just rip them out and plant another variety if the soil test comes back fine.

My suggestion would be to relocate one of your roses or purchase a new one and place it in a pot with good soil. Put the potted rose in the same location as your under performing roses and note any difference. If the potted rose grows, you have your answer. If it doesn't, consider new locations for your roses. I have planted roses in different places in my yard and have learned that location and soil conditions play a huge role in the success of the plant. Bottom line, your problem is a root issue, so address it accordingly.

I have two new Austins coming so will try the pot approach out lord knows I have enough pots rolling around.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and advice.

How long has Golden Celebration been in the ground? My experience with this rose is it takes three years to hit its stride--then watch out. Bonica takes off a lot faster in my experience. Still, that probably doesn't explain it all, but might explain part of the growth lag. Diane

I have both Golden Celebration and Graham Thomas and I can tell you they are both water hogs. I use GT as my canary in the mine for watering. It wilts instantly when it gets the least bit dry out. They do both like the heat best but they always want watering.

I don't know anything about The Generous Gardener, I've never grown it. Bonica is a work horse shrub rose, like newer Simplicity or an earlier Knock Out, and will probably grow and thrive just about anywhere. So you really can't compare it to the DAs.

Second Seil's comment that GC and GT are water-hogs. So are many of the Austins we've grown. The only reason our big hedge of GC still looks so good is that DH hand-carries extra water to those plants, in buckets. (Re-used dishwater doesn't seem to bother them.) So water COULD be an issue.

Another element is that, if these are own-root plants, they may well take 3-4 years before they settle in and grow. When Austin is giving advice about his roses, they are talking about BUDDED plants, and believe me, there is a HUGE difference with, at least the Austins WE have grown. When in doubt, grow them budded, if you want real performance.

I wondered too, whether they're still just slowly settling in/growing their underground root systems. But reading back over your question, I'm not quite clear how long each of the non-thriving plants has been in the ground - it sounds as if one at least has been growing for 6 years - 3 years near/in the shade of(?) The Generous Gardener and then 3 years on the sunny southern slope. Is that correct?

It would be useful to know, for each one, where and for how long you've been growing it, and in what form you acquired it - i.e. bare root or banded/potted, own root or grafted - that is, if you know and can still remember! Also, where you got them may give someone a clue.

To check for possible soil compaction below your rich black earth, could you perhaps dig down 18 inches or so somewhere nearby and see if there's a distinct change? (A posthole digger would help with that, if you can lay your hands on one.)

And, just a thought regarding climate, since DAs were bred in England, where just a day or two of 85'F temperatures makes front page news, surely they should be getting enough summer heat to thrive in your conditions?

Comtesse :¬)

In England, roses are almost always sold budded. In marginal conditions, it makes a big, enormous, incredible difference. I don't bother with own-root Austins any more, and invariable, nice specimens posted here from the northeast are grafted.

Also, remember DA is the person who recommends his roses be grown in groups of three. Most people here consider that some sort of sick joke. I have always suspected there is some truth to it.

I am not expecting winterkill to be part of the issue.

Most roses including Austins are budded onto Dr. Huey rootstock. What I've seen in my acidic soils is that Dr. Huey doesn't like acidic soils, and (think about the alkalin playa lake beds they are produced in, in Wasco California) and read about Dr. Huey doing best in alkalin soils.

Then look at all the multilflora that grows in Rhode Island and Connecticut. That Mulitiflora loves acidid soils.

The failure to thrive may be as simple as being the wrong rootstock for the garden.