Well, first off, it's not a rose. I'm not sure what plant it is...but it's not a rose.

Sorry,

Carol

Omg seriously?

It does look like a rose to me, but it reminds me of Fortuniana (a rootstock used for southern soils here in the US). It is very vigorous and has never flowered for me. When it grows it throws off long straight strands that then branch off like a pillar rose.

Exactly That's what this rose does branches really good and no signs of diseases or what so ever but never flowers :-( what should I do ??? Graft a new rose to it ??

What I would do is start cuttings of this rose and graft desirable roses onto the cuttings that take. Fortuniana is a superior root stock for southern gardens. Roses grafted onto it grow huge. It is not more popular because it does not transplant well, and thus is not commercially viable in the bareroot market that makes up the majority of the rose industry.

I would wonder how it is that you have Fortuniana in your region if it wasn't something that did well in your climate (I think I remember you saying you lived in India, right?)

Once-blooming (non-repeating) roses need to grow for a while before they flower, and they need a certain amount of seasonal change to stimulate flowering. If it is Fortuniana, that is nearly a subtropical rose that doesn't need much of a winter chill. It is a vigorous climber, not really suited to container growing.

I'll agree and disagree with Michael. Roses need to grow for a while before the flower for sure, however I grow almost all of my roses on Fortuniana in pots without a problem and they are just as vigorous as their in-ground counterparts.

Yes am from India am so confused to what to do . I don't know :-/ all I know is I have this rose with me since 3-4 years and haven't seen any flowering on it .... And yes one more thing to mention that I did notice it growing with the vine I have lemme share the pic ..... The rose grew up high till the top end of the vine (in the pic) to the top and then I pruned it back.

kublakhan,

I was not talking about fortuniana as a rootstock, but fortuniana as a rose plant.

Does Fort bloom on new or old wood?

I am thinking along the same lines as Kippy.

Saurabh - have you been pruning the rose for size/shape? If the rose blooms on old wood, then you may be inadvertently pruning canes with flowering potential.

From the pictures it seems to me that there is a single straight cane with branches on top, almost like a tree rose. Is that right?

Could you take pictures of close-up of the leaves and canes? Are there prickles?

Jo

From the web, common root stocks used in India:

Rosa canina Inermia, Rosa indica, Rose multiflora, Rosa noisettiana Manetti, Rosa rubiginosa

Here are the pics

Yes they have prickles

Michael, is there a difference? I understand your point, but do you think that Fortuniana would grow any differently in a pot if it was grafted or not?

Fortuniana as a plant is probably too big for growing successfully in any reasonably-sized container. (Not that I've tried it.)

'Dave's Garden' says fortuniana blooms on old wood. I think Kippy and JoPyeweed may have identified the problem with non-flowering - it needs to be left unpruned until it flowers.

Having said that, I'm not absolutely convinced it IS fortuniana - could it perhaps be an Indian cross or variation we don't know about?... My points of contention are:

a) the leaves, while very similar, don't look shiny enough, at least not in these photos - although that could simply be a trick of the light, and

b) I seem to see a couple of very distinctive stipules in one of Surabh's pics - the bottom left in the group of four. I can't find any photos of anything similar on fortuniana. Oh, and

c) the fact Surabh's rose has thorns (prickles). However, reports seem to vary on fort's thorniness or lack thereof, so I imagine that plants must vary. Some say thornless, some say mostly thornless except for the most vigorous canes (perhaps the ones that are trying to climb, that need those prickles to latch on to any available support?), while others say it's not thornless, but the prickles are small.

The leaves ARE unusual and distinctive though, like fort's, which are quite un-roselike, like its probable parent, R. banksia. Some say R b is only a borderline rose, like Rosa (?) hulthemia, although both have been crossed successfully with legit roses.

If I'm talking nonsense here, it will certainly be nothing new, and I hope someone wiser will correct me.

Comtesse :¬D

Hehe Comtesse, you are really sweet, The leaves are shinier =)

It could also be R.clinophylla - commonly grown in India (but couldn't say whether it flowers on old wood)

Guess I was wrong. But then, I don't know much about rootstocks. There's a lot more knowledgable people here than I!! :) Still doesn't look like any rose I've ever seen. :)

Carol

The first time I saw R. banksia lutea, I said: "That's not a rose." And I don't think the banksia clan grows in Canada, so Carol's confusion is pretty understandable.

All that said, I do think it is likely rootstock, but I'm not sure WHAT rootstock. Saurabh Singh, would you like me to ask rose friends in India who you can ask about this??? They would know your local rootstocks, which we don't. You can send me a pvt. message, if you would like to do that.

I'm starting to think it's not Fortuniana as well. Here are a few shots of some shots I've been growing for rooting.

Note the pointed shape of the leaves.

No. But there are other rootstocks.

Hey thanks all for sharing such amazing knowledge, its always a learning here in every post that I read about Roses.

Jerijen, I have messaged you =)

Kublakan, I think mine is not a fortuniana.

Hard to say, from a single cane, but clinophylla has those pointed leaves and tends to be rather nodding, lax in habit - also something of a scrambler.

Clinophylla leaflets are deeply serrated, look like pruning saw teeth. Can't distinguish this feature in the photos above. Also the compound leave has 9 leaflets. Can't tell if the subject rose has 5 or 7 but it doesn't look like having 9.

Help is on the way. My rose-breeding friends in India will be contacting you.

@ Jerijen, thanks alot they sent me an email and now am contacting them I will surely post here the results! Thanks alot, I think they might help me buying a mature rose plant as well. =) !!! <3

I have a fortuniana, well it used to be Touch of Class, and I've had it for two years and it hasn't bloomed. I did try to take cuttings from it and root them thinking I could graft plants (insert insane laughter here), but none of them took. Mine is viney as the pictures kublakan has posted.

Jeri, I was trying to remember your rose friends' names. I'm guessing it's them that I remember reading about a while back in this or the ARF forum, or perhaps in one of your Heritage Roses newsletters online. I had previously thought they might be able to help Saurabh find reliable sources of named roses in his part of the world. I think someone did kindly answer with their names, but then I didn't know how Saurabh could contact them - so I'm so glad you stepped in with your offer of connecting them up!

I later found a fascinating article by the lady (I'm sorry, the name's escaped me again) - I think it was in a journal of one of the big Indian rose societies - not the Society, but the other one - on the history of roses in India. It was very nicely written, and helped fill in some of the gaps for me in the story of those roses (and other plants I suspect) inaccurately tagged 'indica' which in fact originated in China - not something that's gone into in much depth in Western histories of the rose. I also learned which of the species roses are native to India, mainly from Himalayan plateaus (plateaux??), including THREE variations of R. clinophylla.

I don't know whether there are any good scholarly study/ies in English translation on the history of the rose in China - that would certainly be worth a read. A Chinese equivalent of Redoute's paintings would be nice too, to go with it...

Comtesse :¬)

Comtesse, are you referring to the Viraraghavans?

The Rose in India

I am indeed, Nik, thank you. That article you linked to on HMF looks as if it includes some of the same contents as the article I mentioned. When I searched on HMF before for the Viraghavans' details, I still couldn't find contact details, except for a private email address in a reply to a query from someone else, which I didn't feel sure it would be OK for anyone other than the questioner to use.

It's rather inconvenient that one can't leave the page even for a moment while writing a post to look up a reference, since one's draft immediately gets wiped out. Maybe something we could ask Tamora about.

Comtesse :¬)

@Saurabh Singh: I am also from India, did you find out what the mystery rose is? If so, Is it some sort of Fortuniana hybrid?

@jerijen: Would you be able to help me find Fortuneana in India? I asked around so much and found no major seller with the plant. Do you know a breeder who might have a Fortuneana plant/cutting? I want to test fortuneana on my hot and wet clime to see how it will work (R.multiflora is out best option and hearing about R.fortuneana makes me want to try it here so much). Also, if all else fails and I have to import it from USA, do you think I have a chance of getting it or will I need to be a breeder or plant specialist to obtain phyto specimens?

Flame Master, Jeri is on Antique rose forum. You can make a thread there and she will see it.

Saurabh Singh, do you still have the above plant ? Did it bloom ? What did the Rosarian said it was ?

Sorry but after reading this post, i am curious!

Thanks:)

@Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b): Thank you :)

I made a post there.

flame master, You need to check with your government branch that oversees the importing of plants into India from the United States or other country you want to import from. They can tell you what kind of certification papers you would need. In the US, for example, we need a phytosanitary certificate to import/receive plants or large amounts of seeds from another county. Our office is the USDA APHIS.

In India, it might be the Plant Protection Officers at Ministry of Agriculture, Government of India or authorities authorized by Ministry of Agriculture. I am not totally sure how things work there but you could check and see what kind of paperwork and fees would be required.

It might be easier to import from another country closer to you. The plant may have a better chance of living without the longer shipping/inspection process. Check the online nurseries or call them to see if they carry the plant you want. Experienced nurseries should know about exporting/importing roses.

Also, if you have a local Rose Society, you might be able to get help with the process if others have done it or possibly someone there may have a Fortuniana cutting for you.

If you wanted to try grafting your own roses, all you would need is a Fortuniana rose plant and then you could grow it and take cutting to root, then graft your own roses onto the cuttings. It would be a learning curve but once you were good at it, if these roses grafted onto Fortuniana did well in your soil, you might be able to sell them.

Jasmin is absolutely right. She gave a great advice :))

@sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish): Thanks a lot :) . I'll try to see if I can contact any rose society nearby. I did experiment with grafting a while ago and my grafts seemed to do okay (still I am just an amateur grafter). Here roses grow so slow, 3 years and a Montezuma is just 2 small twigs :(

(Maybe that's just that batch of plants I brought). I never thought about going commercial but I sure would like to experiment :D. Again, many thanks.