Are you saying the area does not drain well?

IME, if the site is suitable for azaleas, they are very much plant and forget plants. If the site isn't, they are high maintenance divas. There isn't a lot in between. So the first question is just how high is the pH? And peat moss is seriously nasty stuff for water control. I have a swamp azalea growing in peat moss, but it is a swamp azalea in a swamp. It is a completely different situation, and not at all normal.

Well, the area is on the north side of the house. The house sits almost perfectly north/south. With the sun moving from east to west, the entire planting area doesn't get sun until 4:00 pm at this time of the year. It's just not high enough in the sky. It drains okay, just stays damper longer because of the long time without direct sun. The soil isn't clay, but on the other hand isn't loose in texture either.

Now in the summer, when the sun is higher, the entire 14 feet gets sun by noon or 1:00, with the sun going down around 6:00ish behind tall trees in the west, some 500 feet away. In summer, it will get 5-6 hours of direct afternoon sun, but for a day in April at 3:00 pm, it will get maybe 3-4 hours of direct sun.

I haven't taken a pH reading on that area yet. When we put a new lawn near the new planting site, a soil test showed we needed to add lime, so I'm guessing the new area will need it too.

I read on the internet that one of the agents you use when planting azaleas is peat moss or sphagnum moss. Mad_Gallica, you don't agree? For now I'm unsure what to plant, but will enhance the soil for any new plants there. Thanks for the name of any other shrub you might suggest.

shade is such an ephemeral concept .. to leaves its description to just that one word ...


i have shade from my north facing house ... and in mid summer.. 8 feet out.. blistering sun.. all day long.. though technically shade ... there is no limitation as to light tolerances ...

compare to shade created by say a norway maple.. and it is all shade.. but so dense and dark ... not even grass will thrive ...

what is creating the shade .. other than the house itself??? if trees.. how high limbed up ... how about a pic..

another clue.. is what is growing there now ...

most of us prefer to plant in native soil.. and not amend planting holes ... refer to this link ...

link

ken

I have a good range of deciduous and evergreen Azaleas and Rhododendrons growing in my native soil which is quite acid, growing wild rhododendrons, sheep laurel, and blueberries. IME soil that comes with a recommendation for lime would be perfect for rhodies if you don't add the lime where you want rhodies. Mine grow in morning sun or in midday to evening sun, so most get 4-7 hours of sun.

To me your description makes it sound like a fairly good site for rhodies, with the house keeping the sun off the plants in winter, but allowing enough sun during the growing season for them to bloom well. However, your sun is fairly intense compared to mine, so perhaps rhodies would need more shade in your area. If you give them a good organic mulch to keep moisture levels even, and water them if the soil feels dryish under the mulch, I would think it would be a great spot for them. I have no specific plants to recommend since my zone is so different from yours, but I would visit good nurseries in your area along with arboretums and public parks that have rhododendrons to get some ideas of what does well in your area. This is the perfect time to see a range of varieties in bloom.

There's also a rhododendron and azalea forum here that might have some particular types to suggest for your area.

I'd like to see a pic of the area, but Aucubas would like that spot. There are many interesting cultivars out now. Rozannie stays smaller. Of course azaleas would work, maybe Kalmia, maybe Pieris. Did you mention how high you want these to be?

Some comments here were meant to be amusing. Thanks for some good laughs. I WILL have to do a pH test, but not tomorrow. New neighbors coming to lunch.

The height of any shrub shouldn't go beyond five feet for my planting space. I dunno about Rhodies; they're usually tall. And I'd love to post a picture of the site, but if I remember from earlier days here, it almost required a degree in computer science to figure it out. Now this website has made a huge change and I haven't had time to try and figure the whole new and different photo process out. I'm also unsure if I like this website anymore. It's clunky; seems old. I keep coming back because of the knowledge, good humor, kind words, and prompt replies.

I've discovered two hydrangeas as possibilities: the oak leaf called Ruby Slippers and also the paniculatta Strawberry Sundae. They can take heat and humidity and are sheltered half the day. I don't mind mulching and watering them. They would be two feet from the faucet, right outside my kitchen door! At least insects don't seem to be drawn to them.

I'm beginning to get gun shy regarding peat moss from comments here. I DO recall having a problem with it long ago as a newbie to gardening. I think I put it all around a plant, on the top surface. It formed a crust and water wouldn't penetrate it until I got rid of it. Haven't used it except once a while ago, I added it together with a really super good soil conditioner and then both of these into the soil going into the planting hole. The plant grew well with few complaints. What material would loosen the soil? Don't have leaves here. My trees are still smallish. I usually use the soil conditioner sold by our super great local nursery. Has micro nutrients plus other good things and feels great. Good texture.

Look at the Distylliums--there are three hybrids that have been introduced in the last few years.

Blue Cascade grows to about 3' x 3'

Emerald Heights to about 5' x 5'

Vintage Jade to about 2' x 5'

They grow well in full sun to partial shade and need well drained soil in zones 6b to 9. They were developed by Dr. Mike Dirr at the University of Georgia and we have been using them extensively here in Georgia. I have used all three either at my home or at my church and have been very pleased with them. They have a very pleasing shape and don't need much if any pruning. Check out the original website

Plant Introductions

Yeah, distylliums are not fully hardy in zone 6b thru 7a. Mine have gotten seriously damaged nearly every winter up here unfortunately. When you're talking distylliums, it makes a huge difference whether it's zone 7a or 7b. Perhaps in zone 7b they'd do OK.

Prunus 'Otto Luyken' would also work in that spot.

That's too bad. How about one of the Yews?

If we're getting into conifers, go for a slow growing chamycypress. (I can never spell it) Arborvitae get naked ankles and out of shape pretty fast. the chamys have wonderful variety of colors, whorls, layers, sizes, shapes and growth rates.

Vot#10 against Peat Moss. Another strike against it is a nearly non renewable resource. Bogs are disappearing and the time it takes for organic matter to become peatmoss means a peatbog may not be renewed within our lifetimes.

I didn't read everything above but I'm assuming someone mentioned the current recommendations against adding soil amendments when planting trees and shrubs.

May I recommend a site called The Garden Professors? One of the lead writers is Linda Chalker-White who is a great garden myth debunker. The garden professors tackle sacred cows like compost tea, and soil amendments for planting shrubs and trees

I do a lot of plant and garden research on the web. I get really annoyed at the ¨how to¨ and general information columns written by bloggers/on line columnists who lift their information from third hand, 20 year old sources, dress it up with a pert photo and pass it off as wisdom.

For good information buy or borrow a good reference book by Michael Dirr or anything Timber press publishes. Online go to County Extension Services and Botanical Garden websites. Mobot (Missouri Botanical Garden) and Chicago Botanical Garden do well designed field trials and make recommendations based on actual observations over years. Knowing good resources increases the gardener's chances of success with new plantings and in the coming years.

Thanks for all the input here. I'm hoping to get some comments regarding ultimate size off the two hydrangeas: Strawberry Sundae and Ruby Slippers available at my garden center. In my experience, the long growing season in 7a allows plants to grow larger than the label suggests. I don't want to prune a plant constantly to keep it within a border. It loses its natural form. I'm hoping to find the right size plant for the site. I can only try to get as close as possible.

I'd prefer not using yews or other evergreens. I'll check out the Missouri Botanical Garden and Chicago's Botanical Garden for plant information. Thanks for that bit of information. I bought both of Michael Dirr's reference books when we started our garden here. What a huge help that was!!!! Totally worth the investment.

I'm guessing your native soil is somewhat acidic, since you mention in another post you're SW of C'ville near the Blue Ridge. I'm NW of town, maybe 10 miles from the mountains as the crow flies. Typical to sweeten lawns with lime around here to bring up the pH. No liming of azaleas, which grow happily in acidic soil. Holly-tone for acid-loving plants is a good fertilizer. Nix the peat moss. Use your soil conditioner or compost to lighten the soil (if necessary), and fork over &/or amend the entire bed rather than just the planting holes. Panorama Paydirt near Earlysville sells great compost & topsoil and will mix them in any proportion you like. http://panoramapaydirt.com/

Lots of evergreen azaleas in this garden, planted 20+ years back. Similar exposure to your site for about a dozen mixed varieties. Given an inch of compost every few years if there's extra & left unpruned with no mulch besides fallen tree leaves in Autumn, they've proven as easy-care as it gets. Prefer varieties with smaller leaves closely spaced along the branches for their denser look year-round. A mix of heights & spans predominantly in shades of pink with some corals & reddish pinks along with whites share this irregular bed here. Only caution with the whites is they sometimes brown & hang on after blooming in very wet Springs. No clue which cultivars grow here, which were planted well before we arrived 17 years ago, but some are the size you're after. Perfect time of year to scope out garden centers for bushes in bloom! You might look at some of the reblooming azaleas as well.

I've not grown the hydrangeas you mention, but I'd be concerned they might splay onto the walkway & not be decorative in the cold seasons. Might try one in the center or at either end.