Thanks, I've done it. Hope the plant will be fine later.

Definitely spider mites.

Since it is in a pot..you can tip the pot over on its side and spray the underside of the leaves forcefully. You may have to do it several times before they are all totally gone. Sometimes I put a brick under the side of the pot if its large..helps to get it at a good angle to spray. The mites usually work at the underside of the leaves the most. I get them on my brugmansias routinely.

I use Sevin for spider mites.

The active ingredient in Sevin is carbaryl. The following quote:

"carbaryl is illegal in several countries, including the United Kingdom, Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Iran, Germany, and Angola"

is from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbaryl

Henry, Don't worry, Sevin is good here in the U.S., I got it from Home Depot/Lowe's. You can't do much at UK, the Queen can't even wear a mink coat to church on a chilly Christmas morning, give me a break. Cars are bad for you, producing dirty air for people to breath in every day, every second, worse than Sevin, do you think we'd go back to horse age? :-) Cheers

If you wished to use a pesticide to kill spider mites, you would need to use a miticide (Avid or Floramite). Spider mites are not insects (or arachnids) and the use of an insecticide is counter productive. Miticides are quite expensive and the water washing treatment is very effective so its an easy choice.

Facts: Carbaryl is a systemic insecticide / miticide. Carbaryl is banned in the EU and available in the US and lots of other places. Banning of a pesticide in the EU is a very complex and contoversial matter and process and involves not only health concerns but environmental concerns also as well as political, cross-border, financial and other interests also.

According to the University of Colorado Extension

"One reason that spider mites become problems in yards and gardens is the
use of insecticides that destroy their natural enemies. For example,
carbaryl (Sevin) devastates most spider mite natural enemies and can
greatly contribute to spider mite outbreaks."

And from UC Davis

"Spider mites frequently become a problem after applying insecticides.
Such outbreaks are commonly a result of the insecticide killing off the
mites’ natural enemies but also occur when certain insecticides
stimulate mite reproduction. For example, spider mites exposed to
carbaryl (Sevin) in the laboratory have been shown to reproduce faster
than untreated populations. Carbaryl, some organophosphates, and some
pyrethroids apparently also favor spider mites by increasing the level
of nitrogen in leaves. Insecticides applied during hot weather usually
appear to have the greatest effect, causing dramatic spider mite
outbreaks within a few days."

Sevin works in my garden with 500+ roses. It has been tested by me under the sun, not in a lab. :-) If you don't like Sevin, you can use sulfur spray but the weather has be cooler than 80.

If showering the undersides of rose leaves with water works, then why not stick with that? It's far less harmful to the environment and to the gardener than using insecticides.

It's just a short cut., faster. :-) Which one will you pick between a horse and a car? Cars are bad for the air, I'd go with a car, a sports car. :-)

I don't know where you're getting your information that Sevin is a miticide -- it most certainly is not.

From the page linked below:

Spider mites frequently become a problem after
applying insecticides. Such outbreaks are commonly a result of the
insecticide killing off the mites’ natural enemies but also occur when
certain insecticides stimulate mite reproduction. For example, spider
mites exposed to carbaryl (Sevin) in the laboratory have been shown to
reproduce faster than untreated populations. Carbaryl, some
organophosphates, and some pyrethroids apparently also favor spider
mites by increasing the level of nitrogen in leaves. Insecticides
applied during hot weather usually appear to have the greatest effect,
causing dramatic spider mite outbreaks within a few days.

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7405.html

:-)

~Christopher

Just try it, you will see. :-)

I don't use insecticides, and that's probably why I don't see spider mites.

:-)

~Christopher

If you know nothing about it, why saying? :-) Go get some roses for your dear Mom. :-) Happy Mother's Day to all the Moms!

This is really confusing. If Sevin works effectively against spider mites for summersrhythm who uses on her roses and knows it is effective, why is the literature saying otherwise? Are there different species of spider mites? or is the literature purposely scaring people from using carbaryl? Sevin is alot cheaper than those newer pesticides. Just wondering if there is ulterior motives for some publications to benefit some business.

Facts: Sevin is a broad spectrum insecticide and miticide. Broad spectrum insecticides and miticides kill much more than the target pests including their natural enemies. Insects and mites have exhibited evolutionary resistance to virtually any pesticide used for long. Sevin being a carbamate is an old broad spectrum insecticide and miticide. There are different kinds of spider mites. There are newer, more efficient, more selective and, supposedly, less dangerous miticides on the market. I'm not going to recommend one because I don't know the rose mite situation in the States. I tend to use a miticide containing abamectin and I spray together with hort. oil when I REALLY have to spray ornamentals for mites with a synthetic miticide.

PS. Proper use of oils in appropriate time (winter and early in the season) will minimize or alleviate the need for synthetic miticide use.

UC IPM pesticide table (older)

I wonder if summersrhythm is trolling us about Sevin for spider mites. In either case, it is terrible advice, and I urge newbies to ignore it. No offense intended, in case he or she is serious.

Michael, you were away from the Forum for a bit. Summer also touted Sevin as a cure for RRD, an effective treatment for fireants and a preventative for JBs (spraying early in spring would prevent JBs, no matter that they are still underground at that point). Please try to see the humor in the situation.

Thanks Cecily :)

Sevin mixed with enough water to make a paste makes a nice frosting for cupcakes, though.

It's Ok if you don't like to spray, but I do. Sevin works for me. I take care more than 500 roses my own. Sevin does works on RRDs too. Please read this from Missouri Botanical Garden. I am not starting a war here. Again, it's Ok if you don't like to spray, then don't spray. Just mentioning what works for me. Cheers

"3. Control the disease by controlling the mite. Pesticides such as carbaryl (Sevin), bifenthrin, horticultural oils and insecticidal soap may provide some protection when applied at weekly intervals during the months of June and July."

http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/gardens-gardening/your-garden/help-for-the-home-gardener/advice-tips-resources/pests-and-problems/diseases/viruses/rose-rosette.aspx

Carbaryl (Sevin) is supposed to be somewhat effective against the mite that spreads RRD.

Sevin is not effective against the very different red spider mite (two-spotted mite). Both Sevin and Merit worsen mite problems by killing mite predators and stimulating faster reproduction.

Merit (imidacloprid), a systemic insecticide, is not and has never been a miticide.

Thank you for explaining and clarifying. I sure do not want to make the mites problem worse by applying the wrong chemical.

This post, originally, was about spider mites. At least two reputable sources have been quoted stating that using Sevin would be ineffective and even detrimental in combating spider mites. The label for Sevin does list Eriophyid mites. There is no mention of spider mites or any other mites.

Just to clarify, the Eriophyid mites mentioned on the Sevin label are the RRD mites, which are quite distant relatives of the common pest mite.

The following was stated: "Henry, Don't worry"

and then later on in the same post:

"Cars are bad for you, producing dirty air for people to breath in every day, every second, worse than Sevin, do you think we'd go back to horse age? :-) ".

H.Kuska comment: The second argument about the car has a specific name. Perhaps Michaelg can recall what it is called.

What we do know is that the EPA has classified carbonyl as " It is classified as a likely human carcinogen by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA.)[5"

Please note not possible but likely.

And

"beneficial insects (e.g. honeybees), "

For the above 2 quotes please see the same reference that I gave earlier

Henry dear, I forgot to mention horses have bad gas too.

:-)

Back in the day before I stopped spraying toxic stuff I used Ortho and Avid for spider mites and they both worked. I know people who use Sevin Dust on their chickens for mites and it is effective. I am sure they are different mites but probably related lol.

I have used the DE -food grade powder on my chickens. I am not sure how the DE would work trying to sprinkle it on plants. Maybe if it didnt rain for awhile.. I buy it in bulk and put some into a empty baby powder container and then sprinkle in on the chickens and rub it into their feathers really well. You could probably use a baby powder container to get it onto the plant leaves.

Anyhow I have used NEEM tree oil on spider mites on brugmansia and it does work to smother the mite. It has to be sprayed a few times, spaced out due to making sure all the eggs or any new baby mites get killed. I only spray NEEM very selectively if I have to now days. The bad thing about NEEM oil is that you can't spray it once it gets really hot.

Michaelg, I have 2 questions for you. Do you spray? Do you use Sevin?

"Do you spray? Do you use Sevin?"

I spray fungicide regularly on roses. I have used insecticides on roses in the past, but not for 20 years or so, except for occasional soap sprays or house-and-garden aerosol with pyrethrins. Aphids, thrips, spider mites, and rose slugs occur every year but are controlled by natural processes without my help. I don't usually have terrible JBs because there is not much irrigated turf in my neighborhood. I gather JBs every day in season by shaking them into a bowl of soapy water. If I had terrible JBs, I would disbud roses during peak JB. There are certain insecticides I recommend here and would use freely if I really needed to: spinosad, oil, pyrethrins, and Bt. One thing I would never do is spray Sevin or Merit on flowers. It's illegal as well as immoral.

Also, I use pyrethrins aerosols for ants and mosquitos and thermonuclear wasp spray when I find a yellow-jacket nest.

The only insecticide I have used in the last 8 years or so is spinosid for thrips. And then I only spray it on buds about to open. No bees or other insects (other than sucking/chewing insects which are the targets) are exposed to it.

I did use Sevin once when I had about a thousand JBs in my yard. But again, I had no blooms and it was sprayed on the beetles which were also eating all the leaves off of trees, and not as a preventative.

It's called integrated pest management. Look it up.

Thanks for answering my questions. Like I thought you don't use Sevin. If you don't use Sevin how can you say it doesn't work on Spider mites? I am just wondering. Sevin is one of the most selling products in the US. You can buy them from HD, Lowe's and all the nursery through out the U.S. Did it change this year?

I have been using it for years, it keeps my rose garden bugs free. I don't love it, but it works well when it comes to bugs. I am a part time gardener with a lot of roses (500+), I am into quick and easy way to keep roses healthy and in bloom. That's my goal. If I know other better and quicker way around, I am willing to give it try in the future, but so far Sevin works for me on pretty much all bugs but rose midges.

it's more like a t shirt one size fits all. Thanks

I find not spraying to be even easier. Aphids come, and are soon followed by the critters which eat them. Other "bugs" which Sevin would kill are necessary for eating all the organic matter I add to my garden, as well as keeping the soil aerated. When you use a broad-spectrum insecticide regularly, you'll kill off the good and the bad. It's amazing how much easier things are when you let other critters do the work for you. All I have to do is make the garden more inviting -- and that means not putting poison on anything.

:-)

~Christopher

To me, saying something works faster isn't a good enough reason alone to use it. A bomb may be faster than a bulldozer, but it's overkill. It's better to start simple first for balance in the garden. There is a beekeeper who lives on my street that talked to me about the importance of this. To quote Ken from a different thread, I choose to practice KISS and tell myself to: Keep It Simple Sweetie. Good discussion, though.

summersrhythm_z6a, Does the label of your Sevin product allow you to use it on roses when they are in bloom? The labels that I have seen do not allow it.

Henry, I just checked the label. I didn't realize how strong it was, no wonder it worked on all the bugs. I think now I understand why people hate it....... Is Eight weaker than Sevin? Is there anything else out there do the same thing but it's not as strong as Sevin?

And what should I do with rose midge control?

Thanks

summersrhythm, I too have a bad problem with rose midges in one of the rose bed in front of my house. I read that the Bayer's Completed Insects Killer for soil is supposed to be effective against rose midges because it contains the ingredient B-cyfluthrin. Are you sure this does not work in eliminating rose midges from your garden? I have been debating whether to use it or not as it is supposed to kill soil insects. If it does not work, then I would rather not use it and kill all of my beneficial insects. I hate midges. They are a nightmare to deal with.

Karen, Someone on this forum last year was talking about using them both(Bayer's Completed Insects Killer for soil and Bayer's Insects spray) at the same time. I did use Bayer's Completed Insects Killer for soil in the spring (should last for 3 months), then rose midge got really bad, I got a bottle of Bayer's Insects spray, I sprayed about 10 times, and cut off the all the black tips, still didn't work. A lot of my roses never bloomed. Now I'm hoping someone here can help us. I had it for years, but last year was the worst. I just got another bag of Bayer's Completed Insects Killer for soil last week too, I am not sure if I need to use it or not. We need some help.

Summersrhythm, just wanted you to know that I appreciate your posts as much as everyone else's, because they have started discussions that may have enlightened many people, myself included.

Thanks Jasminerose! :-)

Karen, I started a rose midge thread, hope someone will help us. :-)