Software
Houzz Logo Print
pmmucci

What is an acceptable difference in sample and installed cabinet stain

11 years ago

I recently had my lovely kitchen cabinets installed. When the doors were installed, one door was much lighter than the others. That one lighter door was the color of the sample I based my choice on.

I was quite disappointed by the color, I wanted the modern washed out look. After looking at other queries on Houzz, I understand about variations in stain on wood, etc, etc, and there is certainly some lighter and darker pieces, which is fine, but just how much of a difference is acceptable?

The wood is maple, the stain is husk, they are a semi custom cabinet, ( learned they are manufactured by Mid Continent, distributed to my contractor by Wolf) so not high end, but really quite nice. I am happy with their quality.

Should I insist on having the darkest ones replaced?

What would be reasonable in my request to the contractor?

This is the sample I based my choice on:
Thanks for any perspective you can give me.


Comments (71)

  • 11 years ago

    They are supposed to be solid maple, and i can tell that they are, when I see the grain under the stain and also on the inside of the cabinets, which, surprisingly, are much closer to the correct color. I am satisfied with the quality of the cabinets. it's just the stain that is botched.


  • 11 years ago

    Update: My designer got hold of the cabinet company's regional manager, and based on her complaint and the photos we sent, I will be getting all different cabinet doors and trim that should match the sample. I'll post pictures when they arrive in 2-3 weeks. I do have high hopes!


  • 11 years ago

    Great news!

    pmmucci thanked somersetlass
  • 11 years ago

    I had the same situation. I ordered Kraftmaid Cabinets from Lowes (which I had in my last home and they were beautiful). The rep from Kraftmaid as well as the rep from Lowes came out and agreed there was too much variation in the color. He ordered all new doors because the boxes were fine. I was told 3 weeks...wrong...it was 2 months! When the new doors showed up they were just as bad so all of the cabinets were removed and I ordered all new cabinets from a different manufacturer (Diamond). The Diamond cabinets were perfect! Lowe's honors their word. I upgraded the cabinets and did not have to pay a penny more because of the inconvenience. All in all we had no kitchen for 5 months!

    pmmucci thanked lisa3170
  • 11 years ago
    Maple is best suited for painting. It does not take stain easily & appears to be muddy.
    pmmucci thanked Sheryl Horton
  • 11 years ago

    Maple is a beautiful wood but is best left natural or stained very dark. The mid stains always look spotty because of the nature of the wood. As a kitchen designer I have people who actually want that more imperfect rustic look. I much prefer a more consistent look, so am glad you are getting your problem resolved.

    pmmucci thanked cucina1990
  • 11 years ago
    I had a similar problem. Custom made maple cabinets stained in a light gray turned out blotchy, pinkish and bluish, and hideous. The contractor agreed. We did not pay the cabinet maker for the staining, we just paid for building the cabinets. Then we had to settle on getting the cabinets painted white since we were told maple should not have been used for a whitish/grayish stain...white oak should have been used instead.
    pmmucci thanked Judith
  • 11 years ago

    Oh hell no~ It looks like something happened to the original door and you replaced it with a newer one that didn't match. That is totally unacceptable, and if the lighter one is the color you wanted, and paid for, then that's the color you should have. I know it's hard to go up against the wrong results, but in this case, I would press the issue until it's fixed.
    Ok, just noticed that it's going to be fixed!!!! Great news for you, and kudos to the reps who agreed and are fixing it.


    pmmucci thanked Jackie Rhodes
  • PRO
    11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Well, it is the same stain, probably a spray alcohol base , looks like they did one extra coat on doors, if you compare to sample you have. All doors should be refinished, washed out stain and lacquer with lacquer thinner and finished again to the color you piked. that is not a variation, it was a huge mistake from finisher.

    pmmucci thanked Tostes Cabinets
  • 11 years ago

    I'm glad you got it sorted out! Share the picture of the right cabinet doors, if you would!

    pmmucci thanked Laura Schwartz
  • PRO
    11 years ago

    Unacceptable completely,

    pmmucci thanked GreenThumb Gardens
  • PRO
    11 years ago
    typically the older the cabinets get the darker they will get based on how much sun and light each cabinet is exposed to and for how long. There are a couple of issues here. The installed cabinets could be older than the sample and have been exposed to direct sunlight for an extended period of time. The species of maple are different. Lastly and I have had this issue. The sample is requested and pulled directly from the manufacturer from a totally different lot of wood. Either way. contractor should be able to get the issue resolved
  • 11 years ago

    A good example of how hiring a good designer will handle getting the right color of the sample. A change of color can throw off the whole color design, feel of the space. As a decorative finisher, artist--a designer would have never accepted this if, first my finish did not match the color sample provided, and second, did not have a continual consistent flow throughout the kitchen. Finishing cabinet doors must take full attention in getting each door the same color as the next. It may be a difference in stain, manufacture,--whatever, as the contractor said, but that should have been taken care of after seeing the first door was not the same color as the sample. Best to you with your lovely kitchen-pmmucci. Would like to see photos when all is finished.


    pmmucci thanked NEWLook Finishes by Crystal
  • 11 years ago

    oh my goodness. DO NOT BE TIMID or apologetic about your value selections. 'Squeek' and get this changed to the way it SHOULD be...especially if you have a sample of your signed-off on selection (wasn't clear in your narative if the door shown is an actual SAMPLE w/ your approval date or just 'the-one-door-that-was-right). Even so, STEP RIGHT UP!! to have what you want. And as you can see, we are ALL rooting for you!!


    pmmucci thanked sonocontenta
  • 11 years ago

    Even if you get semi-custom or ready-built cabinets, you should always have a statement on the order that says, "color match cabinets," that way you don't get any unpleasant surprises like you did. And as far as staining maple, it is done all the time, however birch is a better wood for staining and looks just like maple. In fact, most people can't tell the difference.

    pmmucci thanked Nancy Walton
  • 11 years ago

    I have managed a plant that made the wood components that were used to manufacture cabinets, cabinet doors, furniture, etc. We worked hand in hand with cabinet and furniture manufacturers and finishers. The example you show has nothing to do with the natural variations in the maple (assuming they used the same species as the sample). It is due to the color and process of staining and finishing. I hope you will share updated photos of the beautiful updated results that your contractor and cabinet finisher will undoubtedly provide! Best wishes!


    pmmucci thanked haglinc
  • 11 years ago

    You based your choice on something that is completely different than what you got - your other choices (flooring, countertop) rely on them getting this right. Insist on it being re-done, and do it right away.

    pmmucci thanked schmade
  • 11 years ago

    Thank you all for your comments and support!
    I hope to have my replacements within a few weeks. I think it was just a botched stain job, the cabinet manufacturer didn't need to send anyone out, all it took was a look at the photos. I suggested that my designer make sure she told them to match the sample, not just redo, based on some suggestions here. Thanks for that great advice, I never would have thought that made a difference. Also it's good to know that others have had their same issues resolved, gives me some confidence that mine will too.
    I will post when I get them finished. Thanks again all!


  • 11 years ago

    Please be kind to yourself and insist that these cabinets be done correctly.

    pmmucci thanked whynotdecorate
  • PRO
    11 years ago

    I agree - these cabinets would not be acceptable at all. There is far too much variance in colour. Good on you for getting them replaced and ensuring that they stain to match the sample. I'm sure it will turn out great. good luck

    pmmucci thanked Soda Pop Design Inc.
  • PRO
    11 years ago

    well I hope that they don't expect you to not say anything and forever live with those uneven colors right ? to me it is totally unacceptable


    pmmucci thanked Custom Finishes
  • 11 years ago

    This tidbit might be helpful to the OP or others: I just had stained maple cabinets installed in my bathroom. I didn't specify maple; rather, I asked for a rustic look without a prominent grain like oak or cherry. My GC together with cabinet maker decided that meant maple, probably based partly on price. The first stain sample I saw was very blotchy. I was told this was because it was maple! I never got an understandable answer to my repeated question, "If maple
    doesn't stain well, why are you recommending it?" The only answer I got
    was "you didn't want a lot of grain." As if oak, cherry, and maple
    were the only woods out there.

    I'm not sure if it's really true, but the GC was saying that maple doesn't take stain well unless it's pretreated. So they pretreated it, and the stain is very even (though the effect is far from rustic).


    pmmucci thanked feddup
  • PRO
    11 years ago

    Hi feddup ; the thing about maple is that if you don't know how to pretreat maple is either going to stain blotchy or to light ,they sale this product made by Minwax called wood conditioner that you can actually dilute 50/50 with mineral spirits (paint thinner) then you put that on and wipe it dry with clean rags and the you let it dry for a few hours,overnight is even better then you can apply your stain of choice, and if you want a lighter color you apply the wood conditioner directly from the can with out diluting it. There is actually a faster way of pretreating maple with clear lacquer that i could explain later


    pmmucci thanked Custom Finishes
  • 11 years ago

    Thanks Custom Finishes. You're getting deep into the weeds for me, but are you saying maple always has to be pretreated? Is it different from other woods in that regard? My personal staining experience is mostly refinishing oak furniture or staining pine boards.


  • PRO
    11 years ago

    Hi Feddup : No, u dnt alwys hve to prtrt maple, if u are going a dark finish then u can always do a double stain that is, u wld put ur frst stain and wipe it dry, let dry vry gd ,put a very light coat of clear lacquer let it dry and apply ur second coat of stain. if u are interested i cld explain bttr over the phne i lve in L.A 818) 314-1886 thnks my contractors state lic # 817367 thnks

  • 11 years ago

    Thanks. I was just curious.


  • 11 years ago

    These cabinets look terrible. Our kitchen is supposed to be custom. After moving in, the highlighting began to flake off. They insisted on refinishing them. That took forever, the doors were returned looked exactly the same. They fooled around so long, I was sick of having no cabinet doors and gave up the fight. That's what they were counting on. DON'T GIVE UP UNTIL YOU HAVE WHAT YOU BOUGHT!!!

    pmmucci thanked BeenAroundtheBlock
  • 11 years ago

    Your original selection is so pretty. Seems different from the really dark or really white cabinets used today.

    pmmucci thanked merrigay
  • 11 years ago
    Inexcusable variance in stain color. Maple is not a species like hickory or cherry with wide variations. It's one of the most consistent woods & your delivered product should be quite close to your sample. Someone made a boo boo. You should not pay for that mistake. They've got to get it right.
  • 11 years ago

    Thank you merigay, I thought it looked fresh and modern. It's called husk. Can't wait till all my cabinets have that look.

  • 11 years ago

    Crystal, these forums are where homeowners come for help. Self-promotion has no place here.

  • PRO
    11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The only thing that looks off is that one door; does Mid Continent have a color slightly darker than what you picked? Also, what color are the rest of the cabinet boxes...are they also dark?

    As for the rest, "let the buyer beware". Don't expect to get high-end results from a conglomerate stock or semi-custom cabinet company. As @Odolon Tosses stated, it looks like a spray stain, which obscures the grain but should look monolithic. Yes, splotching is a characteristic of both maple and cherry, which is why companies don't like using dark wiping stains on them. Do your homework before you start "twisting tail", especially if you follow the advice to rat these guys out on "all social media".

    pmmucci thanked User
  • 11 years ago

    River Valley, the ligt door was the only one off color, but it was the color of the sample I had specifically chosen, a light color. The other cabinet doors are simply too dark and not consistent in color. The majority of the frames had the lighter stain, as did some of the insides of the doors, interestingly enough. I do understand about variations, but this was simply too different than what I had chosen. I am very happy with both the response of the cabinet maker and the quality of the cabinets. I'm have confidence the new doors will be much lighter, closer to what I had originally chosen. My contractor and the cabinet company have been very responsive and only kudos (if all works out well) will be spread.

  • PRO
    11 years ago

    So I just looked at the Mid Continent website. It looks like your sample is Wheatfield but your cabinets are Sundance.

  • 11 years ago

    River valley, the stain is brand new and not on the website yet. It is called husk. The cabinets were obtained through the distributor Wolf, who sells it as their own designer series. The cabinet style door, Murano, is also brand-new and not yet on the website.

  • PRO
    11 years ago

    Hmmm...interesting. Maybe their new color rollout hit a snag?

  • 11 years ago

    I think that is a distinct possibility

  • PRO
    11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Agree with @River & others...

    I'm no cabinet expert, but having worked extensively with Maple, as well as everything else... it is definitely the most difficult specie to get a good, consistent COLOR on... the darker you go, the more problematic... (unless you throw pine into the mix).

    And "spraying" on a color that is intended to "fast dry" for the purpose of high production only makes things worse.

    In your photos, you can almost "feel" where the stain landed more heavily in varying spots, and without the benefit of evening out the color by hand, you get a splotchy (although it's very subtle) result.

    That's the problem with sprayed on stains... unless you literally flood the piece, then even out and remove the excess... which comes back to using a wiping stain.

    Returning the process to square one... because Maple doesn't like pigmented stains... oil based or otherwise.

    Good to hear you have the situation under control

    pmmucci thanked Select Hardwood Floor Co.
  • 11 years ago

    You wanted a light kitchen. You got a dark kitchen. By the contractor replacing the lighter door he is admitting the two colors are too different to stay. Everyone understands stain may not take evenly, so at WORST it would be an over all light door with a few dark spots

    pmmucci thanked Judy Bare
  • 11 years ago

    Pmmucci, correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't you say they are replacing ALL the doors?

    pmmucci thanked Nancy Walton
  • 11 years ago

    Yes Nancy Walton, all doors and trim. Sometimes I find people don't read all the comments carefully.

  • 11 years ago

    Update: new cabinet doors and trim installed! What a difference. Thanks to everyone for your support.


  • PRO
    11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Terrific, fantastic, love it, beautiful! Now celebrate!

    pmmucci thanked Siegler Design Services + INTERIORS
  • PRO
    11 years ago

    It looks good!

    pmmucci thanked User
  • 11 years ago

    Looks great! Glad your contractor & supplier were able to resolve the problem to your satisfaction and provide you with the beautiful new kitchen you were hoping for. Persistence pays off!

    pmmucci thanked ellyn143
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    The new doors and drawer fronts are a big improvement from your originals. Reading through you had great support from the designer and contractor. Kitchen looks great.

    pmmucci thanked Partners 4, Design
  • 10 years ago

    I am experiencing the exact same issue with Merillat's Masterpiece cabinets (made by Masco, same manufacturer at Kraftmaid.) The Merillat rep is supposed to come out next week.


    The sample that we picked from (Honey Spice stain on maple Martel style door) was uniform on the stiles and panel. Each door/drawer installed looks different from the sample and different from each other.

  • 10 years ago

    Based on all the information I got from readers of my comment, I know there is some variation with stained wood. That being said, I think you should stress to the representative that your cabinets did not look like the samples you were given.

    They also look like there is unevenness even in the pieces themselves. Like the corners are darker.

    Best of luck! My contractor did an excellent job dealing with the rep. However there was such a huge discrepancy in the color it was quite obvious to see.

  • 10 years ago

    Thank you! Fingers crossed. But there are 54 door/drawer/end panels and really only two or three are uniform enough to be acceptable.

  • 10 years ago
    looks like garbage