My plants are the opposite, better in the ground than pots. But it is still early

Where are you Vince? We lived in Ohio for years and the soil there was pure loam and I could grow anything. Also in Michigan, the soil there was wonderful. Here it is awful.

I live in Cedar Hills which is about 7 miles west of Portland, Oregon. Basically the northern part of the Willamette Valley. One of the best growing regions around, including some of the best wine grown anywhere.

I know clay soil.
I started gardens (10 years ago) from raw GA clay spot . But it took me 2 to 3 years of hard work and lots of amendments ( Leaf mold, fall leaves, horse manure , top soil). I move to Seattle, WA area 3 years ago. I started from square one again. But this time I built raised bed, because of too much rain.

Sey

You are so fotunate to have good soil. I am committed to container gardening now..

I am fortunate in my soil. It is very rich and I do little to amend. Every time I turn over a spadeful I see earthworms. A few decades ago there were cows grazing here. Maybe that has something to do with it.

I do grow my herbs in pots and could use some advice for adding nutrients there.

Caryl

Caryl, I use a good liquid fertilizer developed for Hydroponics. These supply not just the NPK, but also the micronutrients, minerals and mycorrhizae that I don't have in the soilless mixture in my containers. I fertilize about every third watering since every time you water you are washing out the nutrients in containers.

Jennie

<I use a good liquid fertilizer developed for Hydroponics>

Jennie do you use the same fertilizer at the same rate on the in ground plants? Can I ask which specific one you are using? I'm looking for a better one for my fertigation set up.

Let us know how the BER - if any - rates compare between the plants.

Dave

Jennie, which containers are those? Smart pots? What size? Your tomatoes seem to thrive in them.

Gary

Dave, no the tomatoes in the ground are treated a little differently. The containers got Osmocote mixed in when I filled the pots. In the ground I mixed in Tomato Tone, compost and composted manure. I have read that it is very difficult to do containers organically. The last few years I have been using FloraNova Grow liquid fertilizer and added mycorrhizae with good success. This year I started using Urban Farm's Texas Tomato Food and am amazed at the better results. (I also switched to fabric pots this year and that might be part of it also) I took the bottle to my hydroponics store (they hold my hand in this learning process) and they were impressed with the ingredients and it has the mycorrhizae already in it. And very close to organic. The in ground tomatoes get a little of the TTF maybe every other week if I think they need it, the containers every third watering. I have never had BER on any of my tomatoes, container or in the ground. But I don't grow any paste types. And they are on a drip system so get pretty consistent watering.

Gary, my first year with fabric pots. These are root pouches, 20 gallon. They cost about $6.50 each when I ordered 10 and are really sturdy. I think I am going to really like them.http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/root-pouch-boxer-brown-fabric-pot-longest-lifespan/growing-pouches-and-bags

Jennie

Dave, I think I heard that the TTF can clog fertigation systems because of the added calcium it has if it isn't really diluted before adding to the system. I fertilize with a watering can, but eventually do want to learn about fertigation systems.

Jennie

jennie, I like your setup a lot (as I've said before). I was just re-reading what you said about your mix in the other thread.

Are you still liking your mix? I was surprised when you said it's even more moisture retentive than MG, and that's a good thing! -- but then again, you are using the Root Pouches this year and they lose a lot more moisture than plastic pots. Do you have the pots on the dripper system or just your in-ground plants?

I am trying a new mix this year too - kind of a "quickie 5:1:1" So far everything is liking it, but the watering frequency is quite different. (It's also been unusually warm and less rainy so it's hard to tell...) I have also been using the wooden skewers to help me judge the moisture in the containers. Very helpful.

And I just got my TTF the other day. I expected it to be stinkier, a nice surprise that it wasn't! I do remember reading the mfg. saying that it has to be shaken, it settles in 10 seconds, and so unfortunately may be problematic in some systems.

Hi Wormgirl, I think I was comparing apples to oranges about the miracle grow and the mix I am using this year. Last few years I used #15 black nursery pots that hold about 13 gallons. I think the better water retention this year has to do more with the 20 gallon pot size than my mix. Now that we are getting into the 90's things may change. Pots are on drip system, inground are not. But I still haven't started the drips yet as I am trying to get to know how much water these fabric pots need.

Urban Farms said that once the TTF was diluted it would not need to be shaken. It's just the concentrate that needs to be shaken. And I am glad it isn't stinky also! How are your tomatoes doing?

Jennie

I agree, it's hard to tell when multiple conditions (pot type, size, and mix) change at once. It's probably a good decision for you to have gone with the 20 gallon size rather than 15. The fact that they are not drying excessively at this point seems like a very good sign. Between the air pruning and the wicking action of the ground, your plants should be very happy!

Oh, and you're right, it's only the TTF concentrate that settles. Diluted, it's fine. Thanks for reminding me :)

I manually water at this point. Once I had a house and the tomatos were on a soaker hose and a timer and it was the BEST! I had to monitor as the season went along and adjust the watering duration and frequency, but I don't remember that being too difficult. I could easily set up a drip system here - just haven't gotten that far yet. I haven't done drippers in the past so I see a bit of a learning curve ahead.

My tomatos are doing pretty great! I used a strategy of growing them on my sunporch for a while, then starting to take them out during nice days/back in at night. Then when I set out the plants, I used some form of cloche on each. I believe this has resulted in much less transplant shock and earlier fruit set. I'm very pleased with the plants growth since being set out. All the plants are now blooming and at least 5 plants have set fruit. We do still have cool nights here in the last couple weeks, and I am noticing some megablooms.

Here's my Cherokee Purple in its wrap - 20 gallon pot with integrated cage -

And what it looks like inside --

To help you with that learning curve when the time comes, I finally stumbled on these emitters. Set low in the pot they water the entire pot rather than other emitter s that left the perimeter of my pots dry.

Awesome, thank you!

I actually got to take over a second bed this year that has a drip line already run to it! The landlords once grew tomatos over there... I could turn it on anytime and start playing with it. Like you, my pots don't need irrigation YET, but I will probably play with it later in the season.

If you get a chance, post a detail pic of how you place the microsprinkler in the pot, will you? :)

I love your set up to keep your plants warm! And for the PNW, your tomatoes are doing great! Here's the way I place them in the pot:

Cool! And you use the 360 degree spray pattern I take it?

These are your Brandy Boy plants, right? They both look pretty great, although the difference between containers and in ground is, indeed, striking!

These are Lillian's Yellow Heirloom, a really late variety. But I already have lots of fruit set! I only have one Brandyboy that got a late start, but is catching up. It's in a plastic pot as I ran out of root pouches. And all my dwarfs are in plastic pots. Will see how they do in comparison.

Nice discussions .
I have about 10 dwarfs in pots. I use my own 5-1-1 mix, with time release granular w/calcium in it plus some dolomitic lime. .
That is correct; In pots , filled with soil less mix , it is difficult to grow organically, especially when it comes to fertilizer.

Sey

Sey, I used the 5-1-1 three years ago and it was a disaster in my southeast garden. We have averages of 85 to 90 degree days all summer starting in May, August much higher. And not a whole lot of rain in the summer. My drip system got dialed up to twice and then three times a day. The people I have seen most happy with this mix are from cooler climates or, like you, in a cool rainy environment. You need a fast draining mix, I need water retention. This year I used 3 parts proMix BX to 1 part pine fines. Also with the slow release fertilizer and some dolomitic lime. This is working so much better for me.

Jennie

Sey, what dwarfs are you growing? I remember you had one dwarf that turned out to have the wrong type of leaf for the variety. Did you keep that one? Does it appear to be a dwarf?

Jennie

Jennie (and others), I'll be growing mostly dwarfs in my containers. Do you think the 20 gallon root pouches would be better than 10 or 15 gallon ones? BTW, thanks again for the recommendation; they look terrific.

Gary

Gary, I have my dwarfs in about 7 gallon containers. They don't need the big containers like the regular tomatoes do. The bigger tomatoes I would do 15 or 20 gallon. But, boy, do those 20 gallon ones take a lot of potting mix! So far I really like these root pouches.

Jennie

Thanks, Jennie. Very helpful, once again.

Gary

Jennie,.. I have always said in Container Growing forum that 5-1-1 might not be suitable in the south, Southeast, Southwest. But it is near perfect here. To add a little more water retention, I mix in about 20% DE (floor dry).

The dwarfs that I am growing are:

---HAHMS G.T,,,ROSELLA CRIMSON, ,, OURPLE HEART, PURPLE PASSION, POLISH DWARF and BUSH GOLIATH .
Polish Dwarf is not acting like dwarf , so far.

Sey

When I used the 5-1-1, I did have the best root development I have ever seen. But watering them was breaking the bank. It is perfect for your area. I bought some DE, but decided to try it first on my flower pots on the covered back porch. I am pretty impressed. The pots get hot afternoon sun coming in, but no rain. They can go up to a week without watering! I wore a mask when mixing it as the warning on the side of the bag was pretty scary. Dust can affect your lungs with repeated exposure. So make sure you where a mask, Sey.

Jennie

I have had nothing but good experiences growing in 5:1:1 and in fact when I tried to go back to regular potting soil I was terribly unsatisfied. I actually think I got some potting soil last year that was maybe herbicide contaminated because it's actually killed multiple strawberry plants I put in it. Anyway you do have to water more and Al never denies that :)

Because I had grown tomatoes exclusively in containers up until this year...I find this subject quite interesting. I feel I have studied and experimented to the point where my potted tomatoes do very well. However, I wanted to try raised beds this year too... because my soil is heavy clay. So I amended well and built one 18' long raised bed that now has 6 tomato plants growing VERY nicely. I have 12 potted plants doing very nicely, also. I think my point might be this: regardless of your growing medium...study your butt off and provide good conditions (especially soil/mix), and your results will be good. Based on how my raised bed looks....it will be interesting to compare any taste/size differences that might arise between raised bed vs. pots. I have read some comments (on both sides) that say one method produces better tasting fruit than the other. Done correctly (with healthy plants)...I have my doubts of a marked difference. We will see...

Fireduck,..If you re well versed in container growing, the raised bed should come real easy for you. RB is just a big , bottomless container with a lot more flexibility and convenience. The most important part is the ingredients that you initially fill with, After doing that for the last couple of years I have come to the belief that MORE compost and organic matter is better. I also mix in a lot of fine pine bark and pine bark mulch, along with top/garden soil, composted manures. That is what I did this year with my latest 4 by 6ft raised bed.

Most of those listed ingredient are on the acid side (pH wise). So I add dolomitic lime. I shoot for a pH of 6.2 ++. though 6.8 is almost ideal.

Sey

I think you are right Fireduck, you will have good production and taste in both environments because your soil, mix is good in both. I have to study up on raised beds as I am going this fall to Tennessee to help my daughter build one in her yard.

Jennie

Jennie, Your plants look great! Do you add a controlled release fertilizer at planting time (in your containers) and then add the liquid Texas Tomato food throughout the season? -Val

I did Val. added a slow release fertilizer when I added the mix to the pots, I do the TTF every third watering mow that it is in the 90,s

Jennie, I love your drip irrigation set up and your tomato cages. It intimidates me a bit, but it it fairly easy to use and set up (drip irrigation)? I am late potting everything up this year, although we had some Spring colder weather here (central VA) plus tons of spring rain but now getting warm quickly! Will likely have a 12-15 pots when all is said an done. I have large 25 gallon, 31 gallon, and 12.5 gallon pots for heirloom tomatoes and hot peppers (plus a couple of bell peppers). Am ordering some root pouches as well. I line the driveway, on concrete (only full sun spot) edged right up to the grass. Do you think the drip irrigation would work for this set up? Also, did you make your cages? What did you use? Sorry for all the questions! I am somewhat of a newbie to container growing- just dabbled over the past couple of years with mixed success so trying to be more intentional this year! Thanks for the info!

Val

Hi Val, I am a relative newbie to containers also, always had an inground garden. When we moved here five years ago I started an inground garden and I believe the manure I worked into the soil was contaminated with an herbicide or the previous owners were fastidious about a perfect lawn? Either way, all the tomatoes I planted failed that year with obvious herbicide damage. Plus we have horrible soil here, pure clay. So I jumped into container growing pretty quickly so I could have tomatoes and I have learned something new every year. I was intimidated by a drip system also, But discovered it is really easy to set up. Everything is available at Lowes or HD in the plumbing section, they even have kits. Or online. At the spigot you attach a timer, backflow preventor, (fliter and pressure regulator are recommended also but I skipped those as my spigot is at almost ground level and there wasn't room) and an adaptor to allow a 1/2" poly tubing to be attached. (All these parts are labeled at the store) Run the tubing behind your pots and then use this little part that crimps the tubing at the end. Get the tool to poke a hole in the tubing. Then you stick in a little fitting that allows you to attach 1/4" tubing that will run to one pot. Do this for each pot. Attach your emitter at the end of the 1/4" tubing. You can see above in this thread the microsprinklers I used and the stakes they go on. (But there are alot more types of emitters available, I just really liked those) It is really that simple and only took me a few hours to set this up. There are a ton of utube videos and websites that have illustrations that help visualize this set up. You can do this girl! (or guy? sorry)

Oh and the cages are Texas Tomato Cages that I bought 10 or 12 years ago on the internet.

Jennie

Thank you for your detailed response and encouragement. I was planning to use the CRF when potting up and then follow with a liquid schedule, however, given how late I am planting, I am a bit concerned about the CRF releasing too fast given the heat will come quickly. For that reason, I may just rely on the liquid fertilizer (maybe something like Foilage Pro that has the majors, minors, etc.) and be disciplined about fertilizing regularly.

At this point, I need to get everything potted up in the next day or 2, and then hoping to follow with the irrigation system ASAP after that. That does indeed sound a bit easier than I thought. I did see the micro sprinklers in the thread above but could not figure out which ones they were online. I assume they carry them at Lowes/HD? You mentioned that you liked those better than others- is it the 360 spray you liked? I assume they don't spray high enough to adversely effect the foliage? Thanks again! I hope to be able to post pictures of a successful container garden in the near future and look forward to sharing information on this forum. I have learned so much just by lurking these past couple of weeks! My head is spinning:)

Valerie

Val, I liked them because they spray downward and in a 360. I got them at Lowes. There is an irrigation forum on garden web that I found really helpful when I was learning how to set a drip system up. Can't wait to see your pictures!

Jennie