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rj_anthony16

New AC Unit

11 years ago

Hey all,

I have a central AC unit that is more than 15 yrs old and I'd like to replace it . It's separate from our oil heating system. I believe I would need to replace the outside condenser, the air controller in the attic and perhaps replace the copper piping.

A few questions:

1. As mentioned I have an oil furnace. Are combined systems available for oil heating setups or are they only available for gas systems?

2. I believe I have a 3ton setup now based on my current model number (H1CH036S06A). What would the price range be for a 3ton unit with the air controller?

3. Do I need to go with a 3ton unit? Might today's 2ton be just as good as my 15+ yr old 3ton?

4. What is the approximate install cost?

5. Can I reuse the existing duct work?

6. What are the better brands?

I probably will have additional questions but I'll stop here for now.

Thanks in advance

Comments (22)

  • 11 years ago

    Also, are there alternative options which are better then the traditional split system (condenser out and fan-and-coil system inside)?


  • 11 years ago

    Is your heating a forced hot air system? If it is the then the furnace can be integrated and be the air handler for the AC.

    There are a wide range of prices depending on your location and the equipment you choose. For an AC condenser, coil, and air handler you can expect to pay $6-10K. If you get a new oil furnace the price is going to go up.

    The size of the condenser is based on the cooling requirements of the house. It is a good practice to do a heating and cooling load calculation. New systems are more efficient. This means they can provide the same amount of cooling using less energy. If the current condenser is sized correctly, then the new condenser should be the same size.

    Contractors will only quote one price. They are not going to break out the equipment and installations costs. This is very common in this business.

    If the duct work is in good condition and the proper size then it can be reused.

    The better brands are Carrier/Bryant, Trane/American Standard, Rheem/Rudd. These pairs are sister companies. It is the same equipment with different labels. Lennox is also a good brand, but there seems to be a lot of mixed opinions. Whichever brand you select you should stay away from the low end builder's grade models.

    One option is to install a ductless mini-split system. It probably does not make sense if you have a good duct system. The other option is a ground sourced system with no condenser outside. It is something to explore, but in some parts of the country it is not popular and has very high upfront costs.

    You should consider paying a little more money and getting a heat pump. You could then create a dual fuel system with the oil furnace. You should be able to save a significant amount for heating costs assuming you have a reasonable electric rate.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Im in NY, Long Island. I'm not sure if my system is forced hot air or not. How can I tell? I would likely not integrate due to costs.

    Are the ductless less expensive? How do they compare to the split system I have now?

    What is the heat pumps role? Does it reside outside within the condenser?

    Thank you for your detailed response.

  • 11 years ago

    What is the source of the heat in your house? Do you have radiators or is warm air coming out of the same vents as the AC? Your answer will specify what path you can take.

    The ductless avoids the cost of duct work, but that does not apply in your case. The ductless works well for a house that has an open floor plan with few walls.

    A heat pump a essentially an AC condenser running in reverse. It extracts the heat in outside air and brings it in the house. The outside condenser looks about the same as an AC. It utilizes the same indoor coil and air handler. You would use the heat pump for heating until the outdoor temperature dropped to about 20-30 degrees. At that point you would switch to the oil fired furnace.

    Long Island has some the highest electricity rates in the country, while oil prices have dropped. We would have to verify the heat pump is more economical to run than the oil furnace.

    If you have the ability to connect to natural gas, then that would be by far the cheapest fuel for heating.

  • 11 years ago

    I have radiators. We don't have natural gas in my area unfortunately.

  • 11 years ago

    "We don't have natural gas in my area unfortunately."

    Ask installers to calculate the cost differential of a heat pump vs your existing system.


  • 11 years ago

    It sounds like you have a oil fired boiler connected to a set of radiators for heating and a independent central AC system. Your house may have built with the heating system and the AC was added later.

    Are both systems controlled by one thermostat?

    How much to you estimate you paid for oil in the past 12 months? Does the boiler produce hot water or do you have an electric hot water heater?

    Post your electric rate and fuel oil cost per gallon. We can calculate some rough numbers on the relative costs.

    If you do get a heat pump, you will have a forced hot air system most of the time. You have to decide if you like that as opposed to having the radiators on whenever you need heat. There is one regular poster on this forum who has done this type of conversion and he has saved a significant amount of money on heating his house.

  • 11 years ago

    It sounds like you have a oil fired boiler connected to a set of radiators for heating and a independent central AC system. Your house may have built with the heating system and the AC was added later. --- Correct

    Are both systems controlled by one thermostat? -- Yes

    How much to you estimate you paid for oil in the past 12 months? -- I will check

    Does the boiler produce hot water or do you have an electric hot water heater? -- I believe the boiler produces hot water. There is a small gray box off to the side of the boiler, I believe this is the hot water tank?

    Post your electric rate and fuel oil cost per gallon. We can calculate some rough numbers on the relative costs. - ok I will post later.

    Thanks again. I'm learning a lot here!

  • 11 years ago

    Electric rate $.18 per KWh

    Fuel oil cost per gallon - 2.9490

    How much to you estimate you paid for oil in the past 12 months - $3,813.79

  • 11 years ago

    I have PSE&G also.

    I was afraid you would say this about my fuel use.

  • 11 years ago

    Newish or oldish house? Hows the insulation? How are the windows (double-paned?) ? Air gaps to the outside?

    There's a lot of bang for the buck from improving how well the structure retains the conditioned air. That way the heat and coolness you pay to produce stay around for awhile and you'll need to produce less.


  • 11 years ago

    The home was build in the early 80's. Insulation is standard build stuff used in the 80's. Windows are double-paned Anderson casement windows. I did notice some air gaps around the trim. Our hot water is scolding hot and I thought this may be impacting our cost.


  • 11 years ago

    Setting in hot water heater should be turned down...no need for scalding hot water.

    IMO

  • 11 years ago

    Understood but can it be impacting cost significantly?


  • 11 years ago

    Hard to say but defintely impacting your bill negatively and it's a cheap fix/no brainer.

    IMO

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Just curious, what do you guys believe the approximate cost would be to replace my existing unit with a new split system (Rheem or Goodman), without a heat pump? I would look to replace the condenser, blower and have new pipes installed. I may reuse the existing ducts. This would include removal of the old unit as well.

    3ton, 13/14 seer

  • 11 years ago

    It is hard to estimate prices, and I would imagine prices on Long Island are higher than most areas. I would think somewhere in the $6K - $8K range. The prices would be higher if you were interested in a 2-stage condenser with a variable speed. The Goodman would be at the low end of the price range, and the Rheem/Rudd would be higher. Upgrading to a heat pump should add $400 - $500 over the equivalent AC only model.

    If you looking to save money and can wait, then wait until the fall. It is difficult to negotiate with a contractor who is over worked.

    Do a search on posts quoting prices for similar AC systems. Also search for "Goodman problems". It seems many people report problems with Goodman equipment. Whoever you choose stay away from low end models if you plan to live in your house for several more years.

    Robert Anderson thanked mike_home
  • 11 years ago

    Thanks again Mike. I receive two quotes for new RUDD/Rheem systems from $4500-$6000. I'm also getting an overall assessment of my home to determine where improvements can be made in terms of insulation. Also, I'm getting the furnace serviced.


    What are the advantages of a 2-stage condenser with variable speed?


    How do I determine a high-end RUDD/Rheem from a low?


    What is the difference between RUDD and Rheem? Are Rheem's the newer models?


    Thanks

  • 11 years ago

    Are you ruling out the heat pump option?

    The 2-stage condenser will do a better job of controlling humidity on days when the outdoor temperatures are mild and the humidity is high. Just like the weather we have had for the past several days. The AC will quieter in the low stage. You will not notice when it is running.

    Rudd and Rheem are the same equipment with different names. Every model may not be available under both labels.

    I am not familiar with the Rudd/Rheem equipment. Post the model numbers and perhaps someone can offer their opinion.

  • 11 years ago

    No I'm not ruling out the heat pump yet. I don't have model numbers yet but will post them when I do.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Mike or anyone else,

    Have you heard of or used the home energy programs available, NYSERDA/HPwES? Has anyone used these programs? What was your experience?

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