Hi,

Those pullout drawers all look great but there may be some difficulty getting them installed around the lip on the edge as you said - though your handyman may be able to make something to attach it to the back of the cabinet so it looks like it's floating in the center with a bit of support on the edge, too (they all seem to attach to the sides in which case the lip would prevent movement).

If you are planning to keep the spice racks (and always keep what's working! :) ) could you do something more simple such as stacking shelves or a multi-level turntable like these:

http://www.containerstore.com/shop/kitchen/cabinetOrganizers/viewAll?productId=11002183&N=81261

http://www.containerstore.com/shop/kitchen/cabinetOrganizers/viewAll?productId=10023477&N=81261

Or, could your handyman install shelving? Then you could use hanging storage bins if you wanted to along with the Elfa you already have in the cabinet:

http://www.containerstore.com/shop/kitchen/cabinetOrganizers/viewAll?productId=10030979&N=81261

The drawers do look lovely, and I'm sure your handyman could come up with a solution if you wanted something more permanent.

Best wishes for a convenient solution!

Thank you for your ideas. m_madd. I'm posting another photo that shows the existing shelves. I do have a small double lazy susan in the cabinet above this one. It's helpful, but not great.

The problem is that I have very little pantry storage (we downsized our house 2 years ago), and these nearly 24" deep shelves are hard to use effectively and access what's in the back. Hence the need for drawers. The under-shelf storage you linked to might be useful, but I fear that the limited width availability will still be a hindrance. I will look at those more.

I've used the white bins to help with the situation for the last 2 years, but it's really not a good long-term solution.

Here's what the whole cabinet looks like.

If I had the pullout drawers and my existing spice racks, I'd be in much better shape.

I also looked into whether a different type cabinet hinge could work, but it seems that no hinge (according to folks at rockley.com can deal with the 2 inches of wall that extend out next to the cabinet door. Ugh!

Please keep the ideas coming!

Could you move the spice racks down to the bottom and middle shelf height and keep the bottom shelves for things you rarely use (no drawers) or bigger things like the food processor I think I can see, and then install the drawers on the top shelf (it looks like two would fit in the space)? Then you would have two deep shelves, spice racks and two drawers.

Or, could you have your handyman take out the shelves totally (even just the top one) and you could put in a smaller ready-made drawer unit? It might leave a gap at the edges where the lip of the cabinet is, but you may be able to store something flat there like baking trays. You could even purchase the rest of the small elfa unit to use the drawers already in the picture.

I'm all about problem-solving with what you have available as a priority - but if you're set on losing the wire drawers, there are lots of options for smaller units to put in if the shelf is taken out. Or your handyman may be able to custom make one for you.

Happy to help and will keep thinking on it :)

What you can do is put in a filler strip to give the pullouts clearance.

Here's one from Ana White

http://ana-white.com/2011/03/wood-pullout-cabinet-drawer-organizer

http://ana-white.com/sites/default/files/wood-pullout-drawer-4.jpg

Ah, that filler strip could work. The drawers would have to be very narrow to open with the spice racks in place. I'd lose a lot of space that I really can't afford to lose. It is an option to consider.

I'll experiment a bit with moving the spice racks around (without actually moving them yet) to see if that could work. What you don't see are issues I have in nearby cabinets that three or four drawers here (that use all of the possible space) would help with.

To stop going crazy when I cook or look for things, I really want to use all available space effectively. Even the white bins I have now that are part of a drawer system are narrower than I really want.

I may bite the bullet and have my handyman reshape that corner of entryway that's blocking the cabinet door, but that's a bigger job that you'd think. Then I'd just have to figure out the largest size drawers I can put it. I'm even considering if we can remove that "lip" at the front of the cabinet.

Additional ideas welcome!

home depot has pull out full extension drawers that are very similar to rev-a-shelf , but about half the price... they're more of a matte silver rather than shiny chrome, but they are very sturdy and pull in and out easily like rev-a-shelf...I have found them to be extremely helpful under my sink cabinets which are deep! size them according to your door opening- most cabinets have a door opening which is a bit smaller than the cabinet interior...

I like the pilaster setup. Some of the instructions have you attach the pullouts to the shelf, but I don't have any cabinets w/ fixed shelves--they'd all tip!

There are lots of people who've installed pullouts in face-frame cabinetry (that's what that "lip" is--it's the "frame" of the cabinet, and since it's on the front of the cabinet, it's a "face frame." That style of cabinetry is called "framed cabinets." I tell you those terms not to "correct" you but because when you are talking to people in stores, etc., or doing web searches, it will be helpful to have the language they'll be using.)

Is it the hinges that keep the door from opening all the way, or obstacles on the outside? If it's the hinges, you might take one off and see if a cabinet maker can help you find ones that will fit the holes and still let you open the door farther.

But in the "least impact" / "most expedient" category:

I really, really like the idea of clustering the spice racks more closely in the part of the cabinet that's easiest to see and reach (right at shoulder (arm) and face level), and then maybe not having pullouts on the shelves that are right there. Maybe even cut the shelves down so they aren't as deep (you might need to support them better

You could even go with double-depth space racks of some kind that stick into the cabinet farther, and then the stuff in the cabinet will be less (though farther back from the front edge of the shelf), but you'll be able to see--and reach--it all. partly because the stuff in the back of the shelf won't have as many things blocking your view or it or access to it (because that will be on the door!).

Pullouts are mostly valuable for helping you get to stuff deep in the back, and to see stuff deep in the back, by pulling it out where you can see it. So absolutely, at the very least, you need them in the bottom shelves, even if it means moving the spice racks.

You also should have them in the uppermost section; consider having boxes that you access from the sides; and store lightweight stuff up there (extra paper towels, big boxes of chips or jumbo cereal; that jumbo Tupperware bowl...).

The other thing is this:

Once you can pull stuff out of the cabinet, you may not need those spice racks so much. Everything will be so much easier to reach. If you get shelves w/ a lip, or short sides, you can put the spices at the front of the drawers so you can reach in and get them almost as easily.

I think that the payoff of the drawers/pullouts will compensate for the spice racks. <b>They will change the need for those spice racks.</b>

And you might cast your eye around the kitchen and see where else the spice racks can move (inside a door); that might open up the pullouts options, if you can displace the spices to elsewhere. There's no rule that says they can only go in the pantry..Maybe they can go in the same cabinet as the glasses or the mixing bowls.

And be fierce, and look at the spices on the racks and say, "Do I really need to reach all of these that rapidly?" Maybe you only need three or four things that you reach THAT fast, and the others can go in a "drawer" that you pull out.

Back-of-the-door storage is best for things that you need "right now!", like a salt shaker, or the cooking oil. Or the squeegee by the sink. Stuff you wouldn't get out and set down and use in a leisurely order, that you didn't plan ahead to need right now. That you suddenly finding yourself needing while you're in the middle of something.

Stuff like sage and curry--I get those out when I'm starting my prep work, I'm not rushed and stuff isn't sizzling on the stuff when I find myself wanting that. Ditto vanilla.

(Now, you might end up writing "sage" on the top of the lid, so you can see it from above once it's in the drawer.)

Some links for you, from my Pinterest boards:

See how this spice rack is mounted on the side a cabinet? Maybe you put one of these on the side of the pantry cabinet.

http://avonstarclassics.co.uk/collections/classic-kitchen/products/spice-rack

Here's a whole bunch of stuff about pullouts.
There's an interesting pic by the headline

Confessions of a Rollaholic

It shows rollouts under a counter, but it's the same sort of "build a box and insert it on its edge" tactic.

Better, perhaps:

Rollout Ideas and Plans: Simple Pantry Rollouts

An interesting substitute for those door racks, or a way to corral and easily access spices, is the one that shows stuff under the sink:

This one shows how you can put back-of-door storage in place and then have shallower storage inside the cabinet.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/302656037434591800/

Look through this--see the chef's drawers accessed from the sides (provides a wider area to access)
http://www.spaceplanner.com/Storage_Solutions.html

And see that concept (reaching in from teh side; having tall sides that keep stuff from falling out) for a cabinet over the wall oven. I was thinknig of this for the topmost shelves.

A snack drawer pulls out above the oven--out of the reach of little nibblers!

(it has the one with two different depths)

If you did that center section with almost a counter-top-storage area inside, spice racks on the door, you could install little shelves up on the wall of that area. (search on: Storage capacity is also affected by depth of counters)

Also at this link:

http://www.familyhandyman.com/storage-organization/easy-storage-ideas/view-all#step1

search on: Store small stuff up high

Another "reach in from the side because it's high-up" pullout

https://sawdustgirl.com/2013/02/11/how-to-build-and-install-a-pull-out-pantry-style-storage-cabinet/

Hmm, I don't see links to the rollout items in the one post. I searched on the terms, but could not find them. Please post the links if you can.

I'll think on these ideas. The only cabinet side available is quite narrow and a rack there would intrude into the other side of that same entry way. The spices as they are keep me organized, as they are in alpha order and much better than just loose in a bin or drawer (even with labels on top), as I've seen in several places. I never have a lot of time to cook (or don't want to take a lot of time), so easy to find and put back are really important.

Those deep shelves are full of nuts, dried fruit, rice, beans, and other bulk items in containers, plus other cooking-related things like bread crumbs, larger spice containers and bags, taco spice packets, and much, much more.

Ugh, maybe I'm too stuck, but I've looked and relooked at this for 2+ years now.

Oh, and the door won't open all the way because of the nearly 2" of entryway wall next to it (see the first few photos above). I just want to cut that piece of wall out and let the door open. ;-)

And thanks for the terminology. Seems to me that frame is just taking up space that I'd rather have for the drawer. Admittedly, I know little about construction of anything.

Still thinking...

oops--here's the link to the "confessions of a rollaholic" one.

http://www.familyhandyman.com/kitchen/storage/kitchen-storage-cabinet-rollouts/view-all

Your frustration with the cabinet frame is exactly why "frameless" cabinets (sometimes called "European") are now so popular.

Framed cabinetry uses less lumber, and lets cabinetmakers use thinner material for the box. It's also easier to get a frame true and square than it is to get big slabs of wood true and square. And in the old days, before plywood, a framed cabinet wasn't likely to stay true, because large slabs of wood would warp. And then that style just hung on.

If you ever redo your kitchen cabinets, you might want to investigate frameless, given your frustration w/ that frame. (That's what I did! I'm like you; I'm "greedy" for that space behind the frame.)

Anyway, look at that link here, and see the pantry cabinet that's packed solid w/ pullouts. And ask yourself, "If the spices were in the front of one of those, would that be enough?"

Here's more detail on that "access from the side" box-like pullout:

http://www.familyhandyman.com/kitchen/storage/build-organized-lower-cabinet-rollouts-for-increased-kitchen-storage/view-all

Oh--on your framed cabinets--your face frame is actually nice and slim. I've seen cabinets that have a 3" face frame (with 2" of obstructed space <i>on each side!</i>

It won't be so difficult for your handyman to attach a shim to the side of the cabinet to fill in the gap.

Yes! One of those ^^^^ pullouts, but a bit shorter than the cabinet depth and with spice holders on the front of the pullout for convenience.

Grab a spice OR pull out the rest of the thing and get what you need.

Those rollout pages are great! Thanks talley_sue_nyc! I'll look at those more and confer with my handyman when I'm a little closer to a decision.

I'd been thinking about the pulldown-style spice rack on the front of maybe two rollouts, but I'm not sure it would work. The main pulldown spice rack I've seen is this Rubbermaid:

http://www.rubbermaid.com/en-US/spice-racks

The width might just fit in a rollout, but I'm not sure how it would attach, whether the pulldown mechanism would work, and it's a bit tall when not pulled out.

Was that your thought lazy_gardens or some other configuration?

Thank you both for these ideas. I continue to ruminate and look around for different ways of doing things when I'm in the kitchen.

I was doing some more looking at spice rack options on Amazon and found an under-cabinet option. Then did a general web search and found this:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/180715202/under-cabinet-spice-rack?ref=listing-shop-header-2

He'll make custom sizes, too. I just sent the guy a few questions.

Of course, this does create a new issue of where to put an LED light fixture that would be displaced and a paper towel holder. I asked if I can attach the light fixture to the bottom of the rack. The paper towel rack is less important. I'll have to find some workaround for that.

This might be the solution to my problem. Then I'll just have to decide on which pullouts to use for the long cabinet. My handyman could build them based on some specs I've seen, and I may do that to make sure they're sturdy and a perfect fit. I'll have to see what he'll charge, but I think it wouldn't be too bad.

I was thinking having a short pull-out with your existing spice racks mounted on the front of the roll-out, facing out. Same space usage, but you can pull out and get to what's behind the spices

I built interior drawers for my Mom's kitchen using Blum Metaboxes. They were relatively inexpensive, custom fit for the space, and not difficult to build or install. Mom's cabinets are face frame; I put spacers on the hinge side to allow for the hinges.

Before:

After: instead of a stupid half shelf, and only a small amount of usable space in the cabinet, she now has two drawers that are easy to reach. She loves them!

I built a total of 5 for her, but I'm having trouble uploading photos today for some reason.

These are installed with a bracket at the back, since the cabinets are face frame (like yours), and I could not use full-extension glides as a result. But if your handyman put a filler on each side and mounted the glides to that (so the glides are secured to the walls of the cabinet), you could use full-extension glides. Mom's only pull out about 75% of the way.

This one shows the rear mounting bracket, and the spacer on the hinge side.

I learned a long time ago from Talley_Sue not to leave head space. I took advantage of that space all through my house including the refrigerator by adding another shelf.

My handyman was just here, and we talked about several options. He thinks the Rubbermaid pulldown spice racks (I bought two yesterday at Target, only $11.99 apiece) in the front of two pullouts might work. I've emailed him a bunch of links including the Blum metabox, the rollout diy options, and this whole thread for him to see what he thinks could work best.

The undercabinet one from the guy at etsy look nice, but may not be the most feasible.

Thanks for all these ideas!

Mustangs, I love your fridge setup! Those are those Voss water bottles, right, lying on their sides? W/ rice in them?

I think those pulldown spice racks are a major waste of space.

Though that's an interesting thought--to put them inside the pullouts instead of inside a cabinet. if you do that, post a pic?

I keep my spices in a box, and I just pull it out and take the spices out.

(this one, actually, though it may have been discontinued: http://www.amazon.com/Spice-Maid-Cabinet-Organizer/dp/B0000V06FI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8 )

I find that I do NOT need instant access to any spice except the salt and pepper. It doesn't cost me that much time to pull the box out. I will say that I put the ones I use most frequently (mustard, ginger, red pepper flakes) on the front edge of the shelf next to the spices.

Consider putting all the spices in a box at the front edge of whichever pullout is at just below shoulder height. W/ the most-used spiced in the front.

Use a slant-edged pullout for that shelf, and you can probably pull the spices in the back out and over the ones in the front.

You might go look for some pics of spice drawers, to see if you can be willing to move your spices into a drawer inside that cabinet.

Lots of people love storing their spices in drawers (there are inserts for laying them on their sides to make the labels easy to read).

I know I'll lose some space in the pullout drawers with pulldown spice racks, but those racks hold a lot (each row is quite wide), and I don't have room to put all my spices into the drawers that will go on the shelves. They'll be full with what I have. I think the pulldowns will ultimately give me more space, though I've not tried to figure it to the square inch.

I have looked at many drawer-stored spice arrangements. Maybe I'd like it after I got used to it, but it doesn't appeal to me at all. Laying on the side will definitely take up too much space.

It may be a while, but I'll try to remember to post something when it's done, assuming we can make it work.

Wingal, I've got 15 pullouts; all were installed in cabinets with a lip like yours. It took a couple of years to get them all installed because I had to spread out the co$t.

Talley_Sue, Yes they are Vozz bottles with rice (since rice can be stored in the refrig); I love re-purposing.

I found these bottles at a grocery store in Italy for 50 cents each and full of spices. I had to dump the spices (I only wanted the bottles) so customs wouldn't think I was smuggling drugs.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Mustangs81/media/DSCF0738.jpg.html?sort=2&o=15

Wingal: If you did lay your spices on the side, they wouldn't have take up more space, because you'd make that drawer snug up against the one above it. Especially since you're doing custom in a pantry cabinet and can make the drawers any height you want, and position them anywhere you'd like.
After all, spice bottles are only about 2 inches high when you lay them on their sides. (Of course, you wouldn't want to put anything else in that same pullout.) You'd fit two drawers in the space of one, because you'd space them so tightly. So maybe you'd have two drawers of spices instead of one.

Mustangs, those are cute bottles! I've decided I am WAY WAY WAY too lazy to decant my spices into bottles. I use the originals. That's part of my "task decluttering," LOL!

Well, I finally got this thing done! I appreciated everyone's ideas. I knew that putting spices in the pullouts just would not work with all the other stuff that I had to get into the pullouts.

I had still intended to use the pulldown spice rack in one of the pullouts, but alas, with the side rails taking up space, the pullout was just a 1/2" too narrow. So, I went with about Plan Q and managed to move enough things to the top two pullouts to make room for the door-mounted spice racks in two top cabinets.

In all, we put in four pullouts (one more below the bottom one shown in the photo below) and moved around the door-mounted spice racks. I still miss my old (small) walk-in pantry, but this seems to be workable now.

Very nice! Where did you get the pull-outs?

I ordered them through Costco. They make them to fit your measurements, with some constraints. I was a little disappointed at how much width you lose on sides for the rails. There are some others (can't recall where I saw them) that have bottom rails. Those also priced out to about $30 more apiece. Search for slide-outs and for pull-outs, and you'll find them.

I found these plans and will be making something similar as my next project.

http://runnerduck.com/spice_rack/spice_rack.htm

I bought the slides and the wood. I'll post photos as I make some progress.

Also, I have made five pull out trays of various sizes in the last month as part of a kitchen cabinet upgrade. They are pretty simple and mount in about an hour. I can make a tray and get it in glue up in about two hours. Will add photos.

I for one will be really interested in seeing your finished project!

I've seen those plans (or similar) before--I think they're great. They sure really help you pack the cabinets solid w/ spices, don't they?


(those how-tos have some really neat tricks--like how to shorten a screw, fo rexample.)
I'd love to see your pullout trays, too.