What are the range of sizes? Did you provide the sizes of all windows and doors? Did they do the calculation from your list or did you give them a copy of the house plan?

You don't know if any of the load calculations are correct, but you know at least one is wrong. You should not choose one and hope for the best. It will turn into a very expensive mistake.

My suggestion is to have each contractor explain the details of the calculation. Try to get a sense of who is taking the calculation seriously and who seems to be using some basic rules of thumb.

Mike,

So far i received quotes of 3, 4, & 5 tons. Each contractor received the above descriptions and the house plans that have the window and door sizes on them.


My plans are posted in the first comment after my original post.

It is difficult to read the plans, so I am going to go by your list.

Is the lower floor a basement? Is it mostly underground or does the ground slope so you can walk out onto level land? This would have a big impact on the calculation.

You have some high insulation values. I wonder if this is being properly entered in the calculations or some typical default values are being used.

Installing a ground source heat pump system requires a lot of skill and expertise. I get concerned when the contractor can't do an accurate load calculation. In my opinion that is the easy part of the job.

Have you considered other options other than geothermal?

The basement is a non walkout, non daylight. It is all underground. There is one egress window.

As far as other options, i have had a traditional system priced out as well but i like the thought of monthly energy savings geo appears to have. For the traditional system we would have to run either all electric or electric and propane as we do not have natural gas available.

An underground basement is a small load in the winter and no load in the summer. I would think a 4 ton size would be adequate, and possibly smaller. You have above average insulation but very cold winters so it is difficult to say without an accurate load calculation.

A house of your size should be either zoned with one system, or two independent system. With one system it will be difficult to maintain a uniform temperature.

You should look into the inverter type heat pumps like the Carrier Greenspeed. They have excellent winter performance. The operating costs would be more than geothermal, but not by a lot. In either case you would be all electric. If you plan to use propane for cooking then it could be used as part of a dual fuel system.

You should consider the return on investment of geothermal vs. a heat pump. How much have are the quotes so far?

Regardless of what type system you choose you're still left with the dilemma of which size is right. That has to be resolved.

I would suggest a geothermal heat pump like a WaterFurnace 7 Series that is variable speed. This way you'll always have the capacity you'll need - as long as it's not undersized for air-conditioning.

Geothermal will be more expensive up front but properly designed and installed will always be more efficient, have the longest life cycle and have the highest resale value.

IMPO

SR

Waterfurnce 7 Series

A ground source heat pump like a Waterfurnace is more expensive upfront and the cost difference is unlikely something you'll ever recover. First and foremost in making the decision is whether there are HVAC contractors in your area (more than one so that you have some choice in bids and service going forward) with enough experience to design, install, and maintain the system effectively. If not, you're probably better off sticking to something more conventional like an air source heat pump (if don't want propane as your primary heating source).

As far as resale value is concerned, ground source heat pumps are still a bit of a white elephant. Prospective buyers might even be turned off by something they might view as being exotically different and perhaps even a bit quirky. Most buyers view HVAC simplistically - Is the equipment old or new, does it work adequately, does it have the same features as are typical in the area? After assessing these questions, they stop.

We purchased an older home with a WaterFurnace 7 Series closed loop system in 2004. Still works well today. Your home looks to be insulated very well. (Much better than mine.) I doubt you'd recoup the initial investment to go geo but, if it's meaningful to you to brag about how low your electric bill is in the summer while everyone else is paying $300+ then go ahead. ;-)

Jrb, your story is not unlike what I've heard from the Tesla drivers I know. They can drive around essentially for free (no fuel to buy and electricity programs for homes with electric cars can result in little to no added cost for them). Tesla owners like to tout that. Except, my car (which is pretty cool, but costs half as much) has a lower monthly cost than their cars, when you consider acquisition cost.

Teslas are cool, so too is my German performance car, in different ways. When you pay >$100K for a car, you're not driving around for free. Someone who pays 2X or more for a ground source heat pump system is similarly not saving money by doing so. There can be other reasons, of course.

jrb451,

I am always interested in hearing the heating and cooling costs of geothermal systems. Can you provide some numbers? In would be great if you can also provide your electric rate, the size of your house, and your location.

Ranch house in Nebraska.

2580 sq ft main level

2580 sq ft non walkout basement. (1900 finished, 680 unfinished)

3 ton 2 stage system quote is $22000. 25k for zoned

4 ton 2 stage system quote is $31,500

5 ton 2 stage system quote is $39,000 not zoned, not including loop, no humidifier, no de humidifier(I believe he intentionally overpriced and does not want to do the job)

My last Option is a relative who owns a HVAC company. He is able to provide a 5 ton 2 stage zoned system with humidifier for $28, 500. I typically try to avoid using family in case there is ever an issue down the road but it may be to good of a deal to pass up.

Our home is one level, 3,000 sq.ft. located in central Arkansas. We have a "hybrid" electric water heater. I'm also running a 300 watt 3000 gph pump on my Koi pond 24/7. We have a 110 volt 1 1/2 hp pump for getting water from a lake to water the lawn and garden. Some days it runs 10 hours or more. Last month's electric bill we used 1487 KwH in a 30 day billing period. My levelized bill for that period was $132.50. It was 101 degrees yesterday. What's else you want to know?

Re: mas1613

Your relative might be a
good option if they have a solid track record. If they have a good track record
but are not experienced in geothermal they may still be a good option by
employing them to do the install of the geothermal heat pump and duct work but
employing an accredited well driller/geothermal ground loop installer to do the
geothermal loop and install everything regarding the loops and pumps up to the
geothermal heat pump, including antifreeze and system purging & flushing. Start-up
can be done with both contractors present, providing they meticulously follow
the manufacturer’s start up procedure and document every step and measurement so that you have a baseline of
operation that any tech can follow and understand. This documentation should be
in duplicate at a minimum, with one copy remaining at the HP and the other in a
‘safe place’.

IMPO

SR

International Ground Source Heat Pump Association

What is a levelized electric bill? How much to do pay for a KwH of electricity?