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kinshasa18

Unique selling situation

kinshasa
8 years ago

I recently completed the estate sale of my parents' home. X, one of the sales crew, is set on buying the house. Not to be specific, but there are a couple of features that make this house unique. X's entire family has come to see the house and he has talked about his plans for the interior. He gave me his phone number and wants me to call when I'm ready.

I had an appraisal done for the current date (last week) and the appraisal was $410,000. The home needs carpets cleaned, drywall repair and painting. Other than that, the house is in very good condition. I don't want to invest too much in the house, for example, replacing carpets with hardwood floors.

Someone suggested that a real estate lawyer and title company can save me a lot of money over a real estate agent's commission. Has anyone ever had a committed buyer and tried this route? I know that the real estate agents reading this will argue in their favor.



Comments (28)

  • chisue
    8 years ago

    I'd put Mr. X off to the side as a 'definite maybe'. Working estate sales could be an excellent way to pick up properties to flip.

    You have nothing to lose by interviewing a few Realtors to see what they think the property is worth -- with and without the cosmetic improvements you've listed. The estate appraisal may or may not be 'market pricing'.

  • bry911
    8 years ago

    It is just a typical FSBO and it happens all the time. There are a few significant risks with a FSBO, chief among them are disclosure statements and property valuation. While a real estate attorney will protect you from disclosure errors (you may not even need an attorney for the disclosure if you have not lived in the house and don't know of any defects), property valuation is a harder nut to crack. It certainly can be done without much help, and the appraisal is a big step in that direction.

    Another option is a flat fee realtor. In my area $795 gets you a market analysis and a walkthrough for all needed documentation. They essentially will list your house just will not market it at all.

  • Linda Doherty
    8 years ago

    Real estate agent here- I don't think you need an agent if you and the guy agree on a price. Do get a good real estate atty to do contract, and then you will take the contract to the title co, and give them a copy along with the earnest money, so they can open escrow. There aare normally paid by the seller, that you should ask real estate atty about, or ask a realtor. Here in TX, for example, the owners title policy is normally paid by the seller, although it is a negotiable item. But the only time I have ever seen it not paid by seller is on foreclosures.

    You also need to ask the atty about providing you with the sellers disclosure forms. In most states there is a requirement that they be completed, as well as lead paint disclosure forms for homes built before 1978. Failing to disclose known issues can make you liable to be sued under the Deceptive trade Practice Act, and liable for 3 times the damages. So make sure you talk to the atty about disclosure forms/issues. You should also make sure you discuss with atty what items normally convey with house, so there is no misunderstanding.

    Make sure if he is financing it you have a prequal letter from the lender showing he is preapproved/prequalified, and that they checked credit/verified income. My concern with some contractors/salespeople is that they often don't claim all of their income when they file taxes so it screws up their debt to income and they won't be able to qualify.. So require that the lender has verified income. If he is paying cash, get a bank letter verifying that funds are avail to purchase home. Do not sign and execute a contract without the prequel letter/proof of funds. Otherwise you are tying up the home, making it basically off the market, and you may not find out until the day before closing he can't qualify.

    Also, If you are selling it As IS, then they may still want an inspection, and you may want to have an option period during which he can get it inspected and decide whether he wants it or not. Here it is usually 10 days, and gives them the unrestricted right to terminate the contract for any reason.

    Good luck!

  • SaltiDawg
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I gather that you inherited the home and the estate has been probated and title to the home is now solely yours?

    kinshasa thanked SaltiDawg
  • chispa
    8 years ago

    If the house is "unique", in the good sense of the word, then I would list it to get maximum exposure and the best sales price. You can certainly list it as an estate sale and "As Is", so that people know up front that it will probably require some maintenance and updating.


    What are the comparable sales in your area and do you know the market well? Someone might be willing to pay more than what it appraised for, but you won't know that unless you expose it to all potential buyers out there.

  • Suzi AKA DesertDance So CA Zone 9b
    8 years ago

    I'd love to know the features that make the house unique. What are they?

  • kinshasa
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    The house has an INDOOR POOL and a basement. The basement has a full bathroom and also an area where a kitchen could be installed. Gas, electric, water, etc. hook-ups (right word?) are there already. X has three grown unmarried children who are living with them and needs more room. He talked about tapping into the existing lines and creating three apartments or living spaces.

  • kinshasa
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    SaltiDawg, the house is now in our family trust. I have no siblings and inherited everything. Last October the quit claim was filed and legal transfer is done. By the way, I live 600 miles away so perhaps it would be better to have a real estate agent handle the sale....?

  • SaltiDawg
    8 years ago

    Advice. "swimming pool" and "basement" are never to be used in the same sentence.

    Sounds like an interesting home. What general part of the country?

  • kinshasa
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Southwest.

  • dekeoboe
    8 years ago

    He talked about tapping into the existing lines and creating three apartments or living spaces. Is the area zoned for multi-family housing?

  • tete_a_tete
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I think I would want maximum exposure for this house.

    It sounds great. (BTW, I'm not a REA.)

  • Suzi AKA DesertDance So CA Zone 9b
    8 years ago

    I think X is trying to take advantage of you. Just take some time and do some research. X wants a lot for less. Do you wish to comply? I think if you do the repairs, you can get top dollar. That x man is taking advantage.

  • kinshasa
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I don't know about the zoning, but X could qualify as one family-- parents and three (grown) children. The house is in an older neighborhood and the school district is not the best. I like the idea of "maximum exposure" for the house because of those two features. If I do paint, clean carpets, etc. would I need to stay in town or could this be part of a real estate agent's job?



  • rrah
    8 years ago

    Generally you would need to oversee any updates or fixes. You've had an appraisal done recently. Frankly, and I say this as a former agent, I would let X know the appraised value and go from there. I would recommend the attorney route in this case. I suspect any additional cash that would come from exposing the property to the entire market would be eaten up in commissions. Given what you said about schools and the neighborhood, I don't think any updates you make will be gained in a higher sales price. That said, if this is an area where average homes sell for much more than the appraised value, it might be worth the effort and cost.


  • bry911
    8 years ago

    You have an offer to buy the house and an appraisal that gives you some idea of the value. You live 600 miles away, so time on the market has to be a very serious concern to you, things happen to vacant houses, not to mention remote upkeep and insurance on a vacant house can be daunting.

    There are a couple of old sayings that come to mind here. First, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Second, a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.

    While it is possible that you will list the house and it will sell immediately for more than the $20,000 to $28,000 you have to pay in commission, there is also a chance that it will hang around on the market for a year and end up selling for just a bit more or even less. In the end, is the possibility of a slightly bigger pay off worth the risk.

  • deegw
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    It sounds like you have not bought or sold many homes and are also unfamiliar with the area. If I were in your shoes, I would appreciate the help of an experienced agent. If X is serious and makes a good offer, you can bring the buyer to an agent. You should easily be able to negotiate the commission to a lower rate because the selling agent will not have to split the commission with the buying agent.

    Our area has 6% commission and the split goes 2% to selling agent, 2% to buying agent, 1% to selling broker, 1% to buying broker. If you go directly to a broker with a buyer you should pay only 2%.

    I would ask X to make a formal offer on the house as is. I suspect he is looking for a bargain and is not interested in paying anywhere near the appraisal price.

    kinshasa thanked deegw
  • Suzi AKA DesertDance So CA Zone 9b
    8 years ago

    I agree with chisue. On my recent thread about our Montana fishing cabin, we had no idea what it was worth. My husband thought maybe they could get $250,000 for it. A realtor did some comps and listed it for $329,000. It sold for full price. A realtor is a lot of comfort when you live far from the property, as we do.

  • kinshasa
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    The real estate appraisal was extremely thorough and included five different comps, so I believe the $410,000 figure is accurate. My next trip back to the area is late August. From the advice here, I think I should arrange meetings with two or three real estate agents. My next question: how do I know which agents to consult? Is there any site that would help -- besides typical review sites like Yelp?


  • Suzi AKA DesertDance So CA Zone 9b
    8 years ago

    You can go to all the real estate sites (realtor.com, trulia.com, zillow.com) and input the city where your home is located and see who the listing realtors are. Then find out how many homes they sold in the recent time period by looking them up or finding reviews. I just did a web search for Tucson, AZ "Top listing realtors in Tucson, AZ" I was amazed at all the information that simple search pulled up. Hopefully you can do the same for your specific area.

    Once you find some you like, set up appointments and make a list of questions to ask them such as:

    Are you a full time realtor? You don't want a part timer.

    What methods will you use to market this home? Should include brochures, advertising, realtor tours, open houses, etc.

    Do you hire a professional to take photos?Did you bring examples of other homes you have listed?

    Did you bring a list of comps?

    Will you use a lock box?

    Make sure they answer all your questions to your satisfaction. Make sure you can communicate with them by email and phones.

    Good luck to you! Keep us updated!

    kinshasa thanked Suzi AKA DesertDance So CA Zone 9b
  • weedyacres
    8 years ago

    An attorney and a good appraiser will get you 2/3 of what an agent will get you: good pricing and correct paperwork. So you're almost there. An agent will get you more exposure, but that comes at a price. I think an indoor swimming pool may make it appealing to a smaller market, so I'm not sure that this is the kind of property that will start a bidding war and thus needs full MLS exposure, especially if you've got a bird in the hand.

    If it were me, I'd go to X, show him the appraisal, and give him the opportunity to buy at that price. You get an attorney to do the paperwork for $500, and you just saved yourself $24K. I think it's high probability he wants it for a lot less. So if he balks, then you can look at listing it. I'd next go to a flat fee MLS, if available in the area, which is a few hundred dollars plus a 3% buyer's agent commission.

    Last option for me would be full-service listing. If you do go that route, then I'd start by browsing listings in the local area. Find the ones that take good photos, then interview from there. There are lots of threads if you search here on choosing a listing agent.

    kinshasa thanked weedyacres
  • bry911
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    First, if you are going to see some real estate people, I would not let them know that you are entertaining another offer. I would also indicate that you are interested in a fast sale. Although, there are a lot of good and honest realtors out there. They all have a vested interest in getting your listing and are going to want to appeal to you somehow. If you let them know you are entertaining another offer, you exponentially increase your chance of getting sold on unrealistic expectations.

    Second, I am going to go all finance and accounting on you here. While I respect the opinions of many others who have commented here, as a finance guy I look at money differently. The biggest way is that for most finance and accounting people we see a huge difference in money today vs. the promise of money tomorrow. This is known as the time value of money. Since I work in numbers let me throw some at you. We are going to assume a few things here: (1) that the property will somehow be maintained with funds either from you, or distributed to you when finalized, and will run around $200 per month. (2) I am going to assume insurance at $800 per year (low for a vacant house.) (3) I am going to assume 1% property taxes.

    Given those numbers, the real cost of you keeping the house is $600 per month. That sounds reasonable and not that bad. However, if we now throw in the value of having $400,000 in cash today that we can stick in an investment we get (a) using the historical stock market rate we get an additional $2,667 per month, (b) using the 4% bond or mortgage rate (if you owe more than $400,000 on your current home) we get an additional $1,333 of real cash in your pocket every month. Added to the fact that you are going to have $25,000 in additional costs with a realtor, it will not take long at all to completely destroy any upside.

    Even if the house is worth $450,000 you are wasting $2,000 per month in hopes of making $13,000 more. For the sake of complete disclosure, if the people who want the property came back to me with an offer of $375,000, assuming the house is worth $410,000, I would take it. You are still only getting $10,600 less than you would get with a realtor and you are getting it today. To be fair. I would take it even if the house is approaching $425,000, because the upside (the additional money you can make) is not worth the risk (the chance you will make less.) Plus money today is better than the promise of money tomorrow.

    kinshasa thanked bry911
  • kinshasa
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Definitely food for thought. Thank you.


  • cpartist
    8 years ago

    I agree with Bry. And with the house being empty in a "not so great neighborhood" do you really want to chance that it might be vandalized? That then would add to your monthly cost of maintaining the home until it's sold. And I'm not a finance person.

    kinshasa thanked cpartist
  • kinshasa
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I spoke to Mrs. X last night and told her the appraisal figure. She said that might be out of their price range and would speak to X.

    Regarding vandalism, two days after the estate sale there was an attempted break in and the alarm system scared them off. It's obvious the house is empty. I am having security doors fabricated and installed because I don't know when the house will sell. They're expensive but with airfare, rental car and hotel it costs at least $1000 every time I come. The appraiser thought the area was OK, just an older neighborhood.

  • Suzi AKA DesertDance So CA Zone 9b
    8 years ago

    Security systems are very valuable. We didn't quite "get" how to work the thing when it was first installed, and set it off. Cops were here within less than a minute. They said it often happens on new alarms. I'm glad you have one since you live so far away.

  • bry911
    8 years ago

    I would recommend considering cameras. You can now get a good quality camera system that will give you a visual of the property for a very reasonable cost. You will probably have to pay for basic internet access but a picture is worth a thousand words, and nothing can beat being able to look at the property on your phone to ensure everything is fine.

    kinshasa thanked bry911