If all it has in the bed is potting mix it could seriously use some dirt/sand added in just for the minerals. One question is what do you mean by poor drainage? What's the symptom? If it's holding on to too much water, where's it getting too much water from? Just curious...

Another is, why wash mason sand? Pool sand and mason's sand are from crusher operations and have sharp edges that resist movement and so resist compaction. The grain size for gardens is pretty much irrelevant, but mason's sand is just a finer screen than concrete sand, which is dirt cheap at a quarry. Both those should be pure mineral materials with nothing needed to be washed out.

Hey guys, thanks for the input! RGreen, I love the idea about wood chips (since I'm inadvertently doing organic), should I not worry about them getting broken down and being in the same situation? Grubby, my first hint was upset (wilting/yellow) plants, then the fungus gnats came in strong. So, I checked the soil moisture (I watered for the first time, lightly, 5 days ago, plenty of sunlight since), and it was still damp and hot. After mixing it around a bit, it was pretty obviously waterlogged. I've heard that finer sand will exacerbate the issue because it gets compacted and something about it not handing the water to the roots. So, that put me down the rough/sharp grain sand trail and it looks like the cheaper stuff (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Quikrete-50-lb-All-Purpose-Sand-115251/100318450) has crystalline silica which, evidently, according to the state of California, kills everyone/everything. Anywho, keep the ideas/questions coming, and thanks again!

And, for what it's worth, I checked the soil much more closely today, and under the magnifying glass / microscope, I noticed the majority of the contents, sans the perlite, are organic. Shredded bits of wood mostly with small amounts of silica and moderate amounts of mycelium. Hope this helps, and thanks again!

While soils need some organic matter too much organic matter in a soil mix can result in a water logged soil. Adding more (wood Chips) will not help. Optimally any soil should be about 6 to 8 percent organic matter and 92 to 94 percent mineral, the sand, silt, and clay particles that make up soils all over the world.

You may find this article to be of some interest.

http://www.gardeners.com/how-to/building-healthy-soil/5060.html

kimmq is kimmsr

If you have a completely elevated raised bed - and I assume that means it has a solid bottom with drain holes - then you no longer have a standard raised bed gardening situation; you have a container gardening situation and you have changed the rule book. You want to disregard all the comments about improving raised bed soil - because it no longer applies - and focus on the soil mixes that are most appropriate for container gardening. And that means NO mineral (garden) soil, no sand whatever the texture and limited organic matter.

I'd direct you to the Container Gardening forum to read through their threads on appropriate soil mixes but what you need to focus on is a durable, fast draining mix that is bark-based, like the 5-1-1 or gritty mixes that are favored by container gardeners. In container gardening the soil mix is only a rooting medium to stabilize the plants - all fertilization, and of course watering, is supplied by the gardener.

Converting what you have now to a better draining soil for your gardening situation is not something you can do easily during the growing season but something you can work on to improve your results for next season. And in the meantime, you can do your homework on the Container forum to see where and how and with what materials you need to improve.

I agree with gardengal... and why I suggested you research wood, and yes, bark chips as they are used in containers. I think you'll learn a lot. As I said, commercial growers have spent good money researching these components and how to use them properly. Along with reading in the container forum, here's a starting link to a few research papers... https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=wood+chips+as+a+container+medium

That's a google llink, so, when it comes to who wrote each article, make sure of the authority of the source.

gardengal, that's exactly the revelation I was looking for! I have a container, not a raised bed, and you're right, this changes my trajectory. rgreen, I like the bark chips, but my soil seems to be almost entirely wood chips at this point. Also, looking more into the product I bought online, it looks like it's more of an additive as opposed to a medium. I took a look at the container folks, and saw some good mixes. Really surprised me how much perlite they put in there, mine certainly doesn't have that much. I took a photo, and I hope it helps! Thanks again!

This is the bed (before the great plant massacre), and a picture of the bottom (to get an idea of the drainage)..

If it's hot because it's decomposing, it's no wonder the plants are stressed. It may not be just the drainage that's causing them to do poorly.

tox, I'm almost sure it decomposing. Going to try to sound smart here, would that be because what rgreen said about there not being enough "air pockets" in there?

It's the level of organic matter that is creating a decomposition situation. That, combined with excessive moisture retention, is what's causing the poor performance. The barky soil referred to in the mixes discussed on the Container forum are generally mostly "composted bark fines" so are not as inclined to breakdown and decompose as rapidly as regular uncomposted shredded bark (like what's currently in your mix). They are more like dime sized nuggets and are very durable. Will last a couple of growing seasons easily before they start breaking down.

So gardengal, sounding like if I want to save the medium, I should bite the bullet and get me a bunch of perlite or pumice (which I'm told is better)? Or ya thinking it's a scrap it and start over with a chunkier wood based mix? Mix in chunky wood?

If it was my raised bed, I'd scrap the soil and start over with a proper container mix. It is just very difficult to adequately amend a poor quality soil for containers.

If you want to save the and reuse the soil, then I'd look at the recipes for the 5-1-1 or gritty mix and add in quantity whatever is lacking - pumice/perlite, Turface (or high fired clay granules) or composted bark fines (sometimes sold as 'soil conditioner' or as reptile bedding). In a pinch, fine/medium orchid bark can work as well. Or a mix of all of the above :-) But you may need to add as much as 50% or more of the original volume of stable (nondecomposable) ingredients.

Yeah, I agree I should just dump it. Any suggestions on ways I can repurpose it? It's around 3500 lbs of stuff, and I got it up by stairs / bags (long day ^_^), wondering if there's something else I can use it for up there. Since it's already decomposing, can I take advantage of that? Have it hang around for a couple years and then have it be useful in someway? And thank you again for all your advice!

Btw, having a heck of a time finding "pine bark fines." SoCal isn't known for it's vast forests ^_^

Wow... I'd grow a serious cash crop, or just buy produce before spending more money lol. But... meh, to each their own.

It's composting, so if you pile it up somewhere it's going to become compost. Then it would be useful for lawns, gardens, anywhere you can use compost.

I am certainly no expert on this container gardening stuff so I will defer to others. Having said that, it would be nice if you could reuse at least a portion of it in your new mix, in view of the large volume. Even 10-20% of it amounts to quite a bit that you won't have to find another home for.

rgreen, don't get ahead of me -_^ So, here's something. I emailed the folks who make this stuff Kellogg. And got an email from Cody Kellogg, must be a family operation...

"Sorry to hear that you are having some trouble with your garden. Whenplanting, be sure to soak the soil really well‹to the consistency of
mud‹and mix it up by hand. Then plant in it. What is happening (and this
has happened to me before) is that only the top 4-6² are getting wet and
not soaking all the way through the bed. The water is just running through
the bottom half of the soil. This starts the composting process by heating
up the lower half that is not soaking up the water, which is why it¹s
getting hot. One way to help remedy this is to mix in a couple of bags of
Patio Plus into the top 4-6². We hope this helps your situation. If you
have any more questions please let us know."

Does that sound right to anyone?

It explains what could be going on but it's not going to help your situation much. Raised bed soil is just not the same as container soil. The Patio Plus is not going to amend what you have effectively, as it is just more finely textured potting soil.

The key to a good container soil - regardless of the size of the container - is fast drainage but with decent water retention. That means when you do water, the water moves through the soil profile rapidly and wets the entire volume of medium. If the bottom portion is not adequately moistened, I'd have to say you are not watering long enough/thoroughly enough when you do water. Water should run out freely from the bottom of the container (via drainage holes) each time you water.

Sorry lol...

I'd try it... and here's my reasoning...This seems an okay amendment to what you already have going. You're invested. So, I say, pick up a few bags of that stuff (but don't go too heavy with it, find some bags of clean pine bark (no dyes etc...,) and give it a go.

Since you have expressed concerns over the amount of wood/bark already in the mix, go lightly with the bark for now. Next year, due to decomp and harvest, you'll need to amend anyway, so see how it performs and adjust accordingly.

Think also (if not this year, then next) about some sort of mineral additive. Some people like greensand, others like that azomite stuff... The idea is to create a better soil/medium with time. I personally don't have unlimited funds, so a little at a time goes a long way.

You have a season to learn about container mixes, so get going with this one and move forward.

I'm with ya, water is a lot cheaper than all new soil, and I don't have much to lose in my garden graveyard. Plus, if I follow his instructions and it still doesn't work, I may be able to get a refund or something.

Just so you are aware........the Patio Plus is NOT an amendment. It is just a potting mix and doesn't seem like a particularly durable or textural one at that so I am at a loss as to what benefit this would add to the existing soil. You are simply adding more of the same stuff. How's that going to fix things?

Also mineral additives are unnecessary in a container soil. You can get all the trace elements/minerals you need by using the right fertilizer, just as you do with any other nutrient requirements.

I am concerned that the OP and other responders are still looking at this as a raised bed gardening situation when it is not. It is in fact just a large container and the conditions governing successful container gardening are very different from both standard (bottomless) raised beds or inground gardening.

I might suggest reposting this in the Container Gardening forum and see what sort of comments it elicits.

You know....

I used the term amendment.. and while there are garden specific products often termed as 'amendments', the definition of the word is: something that is added to soil in order to improve its texture or fertility.

This is a product that will, quite possibly, 'improve its texture and fertility'.

This is not going to be the base of the medium, but rather, simply be added to what he already has in the bed.

It may not fit into what someone regards as proper, or the way it is supposed to be done, but by definition, IT IS AN AMENDMENT!

Now, I submit that if you want to front this guy the hundreds of dollars to scrap this mix and build it the way YOU, or anyone else thinks it should be done... then go ahead and keep playing your harmonica. Do you people live in the real world??!!

I'm sorry, time for me to bow out of this thread. Andrew, if any of my comments have steered you wrong, then I profusely apologize.

Sheesh, this conversation getting almost as hot as my ex-garden, now compost heap. rgreen, love your practical advice, sorry to see ya go. gardengal, I'm now treating this thing as I should of in the beginning, a raised container garden.

Right now I have the bed soaking, it may not help, but again, nothing to lose. If this doesn't work, I'll probably just dump it all, and start anew. It's expensive, and this hobby has been, but my biggest point about starting over is simple. I want to know what's in my soil, and the Kellogg folks don't want to disclose that. So, if I have problems down the road, I won't know how to rectify them if I don't know what's in there. Also, I'm considering drilling some small holes on the sides, I'm worried about the gas exchange in there. The logical side of me agrees with rgreen, I should of just bought my veggies at the store, but the Idaho-raised part of me says "I must grow!"

Golly, I'm not at all sure why one would have such a strong reaction to my comments. They were certainly not intended to offend :-)

It seems to me that the issue here is a soil mix that is not providing the qualities it needs for the conditions under which it is being used. Pretty darn simple. Yes, it can be amended but is that even practical? Amending an inferior container soil typically requires the addition of significant amounts of durable (non-decomposing) ingredients, often to the concentration of 50% or more of the volume of mix. If that is something that you are able to do, by all means do so rather than dumping all the existing soil and starting over. But you are going to need to get rid of a major portion of it regardless, just to accommodate the new additions.

And the type of amendments are very important if you are going to try to "fix" this soil. An amendment is any material added to a soil to improve its physical properties. Adding more of the same product (or something extremely similar) - the Patio Plus - is not doing anything to improve or enhance the soil properties. It is not adding any elements that will improve aeration or porosity or encourage better drainage. Rather than the Patio Plus soil mix.......which is just more of the same type of material you already have in the box.......consider adding just those ingredients included in the high quality durable mixes - perlite, pumice, granite grit, Turface, composted bark fines, etc. - or a combination thereof.

Andrew, you are getting a lot of contradictory information and advice here and I know that's got to be confusing. I would seriously encourage you to post your concerns on the Container Gardening forum for some excellent advice that is specific and appropriate to growing in containers. As I mentioned previously, what you have is just a large container, not a typical raised bed, and the conditions and requirements for satisfactory container culture are very different from those of either raised beds or inground gardening.

What it all boils down to is what kind of success or performance do you want from the veggies you grow and to maximize that success, you need to make some changes. But it is up to you if you want to put in the time and effort - and probably a few extra $$ - to do that.

gardengal, thanks for understanding my confused position ^_^ You're totally right, it's a large container, and I'll scoot over to that section. As an update for y'all, and in tragic case someone else is in my boat, I dumped all the soil. Truthfully, it was mostly a logical decision, but there was some "start anew" emotions in there too. As an ironic twist, my work had a company event at a small farm, and over a few glasses of wine, I had a great discussion with the farmer there, and after asking "should I start over?" He said, "the fact you asked that, means you already know the answer." But, I'll tell ya, it's a lot easier putting it in, than taking it out! Anywho, I'm starting over with a nice organic soil mixed about 60/40 with a cactus mix. I'd love to do the 5-1-1 or the gritty mix, but it's just impossible for me to find the ingredients, and they seem so specific about grain size, decomposition level, etc. that my brain almost blew up, so the owner at my local organic nursery said, if the mix doesn't work, bring back a clump, and I'll refund all your money. So, I was sold. I loved his advice, "spend 80% on your soil and 20% on your plants." Which I think is spot on. As far as what I would tell others in my situation, don't rush the soil. For the most part, that means don't just grab something from a big box place, which doesn't list it's ingredients. Like most things in life, if you don't know what's in it, then you won't know what comes out of it. Thanks again for all your feedback, and although I'll scoot over to container garden country for my future inquiries, I'll keep y'all updated on my progress! (cues "The More You [Gr]ow" song)

Perhaps this video from Growing a Greener World may be of some interest.

http://www.growingagreenerworld.com/building-a-garden/

kimmq is kimmsr

I hope you come back and post an update with pics when this garden is in full bloom (or fruit, as it were). :-]