I mentioned in a previous post that leaves on my Optimaras seem to change. We don't know the conditions in their greenhouses or if the plants have been subjected to certain chemicals but the leaves do change over time for me anyway.

I do use Optimara fertilizer at 1/4 tsp or less per gallon. I also alternate with Dyna Gro Foliage Pro & Better Gro Orchid food both at the same rate. None of these are urea based so are fairly safe for use. Research has shown that most plants including violets utilize fertilizer at a 3-1-2 ratio, so your fertilizer should not be overly high in phosphores. I've read that if you supply a plant with sufficient nitrogen & favorable conditions that blooms will come along without too many other additives.

As far as the fertilizers being responsable for your leaf changes, I really can't say. It may be part of the equation. But I use Optimara fertilizer as I mentioned & still have changing leaves, so who knows? This is the main reason I've decided not to add many Optimaras to my wish list even though so many are darn lovely!

Terri

I think the store bought plants are artificially forced into growing a few large leaves and a small bouquet of blooms. It is not normal and the plant lacks form when it stops blooming. When the plant stops blooming, I repot it into a more normal potting mix and groom it. I let it grow into a round shape with several rows of normal sized leaves. These are always smaller than the original but look more normal. Then when it blooms again, it looks more like any other AV. it can take a year or more and several bloom cycles to start having larger leaves. These will be normal scale. Any suckers used to start plants are always normal size. So I think those store plants are plumped for market and need to develop normally to continue to support blooms and plant health. Just my observation from growing O's over the years. Joanne

Oh, I see; maybe I did have too high expectations from Optimara, bc when you get them from the store, they are huge with an enormous bouquet of flowers. They never seem to perform like that again after you get them home.

I always repot them and remove as much of that soil as I can. That foliage has never stayed like that for me. I have assumed it is because of the greenhouse conditions and the special care. They do get nice heads of bloom though. Nothing wrong with the plants but I don't have conditions to produce leaves like that.

Hi, the samples for sale in my area seem to have about 7 to 10 really large leaves. They also seem to bloom from the center in place of the crown. I especially noticed this past year. they look good at first, but once the blooms are gone, they don't look good. But if I groom them, remove all suckers, and keep them for several months, they will grow out to having three rows of leaves. Then when they bloom again, there are many more leaves for the bloomstalks to grow from so the blooms are more evenly spaced. So then they look like a more typical Violet. It can take an Optimara several years to grow into form. However they grow fast. I think the Optimaras sold in stores in my area are regarded like cut flowers. I don't think most people realize their potential. This is just my theory based on observation of the O's I have grown. So now I don't give Os for gifts until I have grown them out fully and they are on their second bloom cycle. I don't want the person to be disappointed. The few Optis I bought from Selective Gardener did not seem to have this forced look. Now I just buy leaves from SG. I use three different fertilizers, as I learned from TerriLou. Joanne

47,

Would you mind indicating the post where TerriLou explains fertilizers?

I wonder how old are the Optis we buy in stores...

Its the post on this thread. Terrilou posted something similar a long time ago, so I just switch back and forth between the three different kinds. For me, it is not that exact. I tend to under fertilize because I like the green leaves to grow out fully before they bloom. I could be wrong, but I think it makes for a stronger plant. There are some educational videos about Optis around, maybe on their website. Also, it could just be the Optis in my area that have a small amount of very large leaves. They look even better when they are older and get really full blooms with a full three rows of leaves. At least, to my mind.

Duh with the fertilizer. :-) Yes, it was right in this thread - thank you, 47.

I wanted to order the Optimara food so i wrote to Cape Cod Violetry but no one responded yet. I was wondering if anyone knows anything about the general purpose Osmocote fertilizer ( I think it is 14 across the board). It's made of some tan granules that you sprinkle into the soil. I KNOW that this is not a preferred methods of fertilization for AV-s but last year, I re-potted Jitterbug into a bit of soil that had happened to have some of those Osmocote granules in it. I didn't mean to but I realized it only when it was too late so left it just like thar. In just a few weeks, the foliage grew phenomenally, it didn't even look like a mini anymore - it almost looked like a standard. And it bloomed beautifully too.

So could I break the rule and sprinkle just a few of those Osmocote granules into my AV soil - and then continue to fertilize at a weaker than normal rate with water soluble-type fettilizers, like Terrilou indicated?

I have never used Osmocote but it seems you have had good results. I've read of others using it also; one grower mentioned a rate of 1/4th tsp per 4" pot or three or four granules for a 2.5" pot & larger. If I recall correctly, one grower supplemented with additional fertilizer at a lower than usual dosage.

Perhaps you would like to try the granules on a couple more plants & see how they react. If you like the results, you can then apply the granules to other plants. This is something I might like to experiment with so thanks for the idea! I haven't done this but there may be old discussions on Osmocote here so a search might yield some additional insight.

Terri

You could try the Osmocote. I have used it on some plants (can't recall what at the moment but not AVs). I would disagree though about the results being good on Jitterbug. You do not want to produce over-large miniatures. That is not a good thing. Now perhaps it may work out satisfactorily on a standard. Optimara even says to use a special mini fertilizer on the little ones. I cannot say if it helps or not. Still, you do not want them to grow outsized as they are neither one thing nor the other at that point. I would be cautious though as it seems like you would have little control over it.

Too many leaves are not supposed to be desirable really for a big plant. I forget where I heard/read that. Some Optimaras do bloom in cycles. A big head of blossom. A rest. Repeat. It's their normal pattern. Rhapsodie Michelle is one I believe. And just disbud the plant while it grows up. I tend to let them bloom when they are too young but I should disbud them and let them put their energy into growing the plant and then bloom.

This discussion got me looking closely at my Opt's. The growth at home is definitely dwarfed compared to store size. At first, I thought it was from using treated water. If a new plant is started from a sucker, it looks balanced. But when new leaves grow on a store plant, there are two different sizes. Maybe Annie will call them to find out a reason. I grow my plants under natural light, so they get only daylight. So I think they are on Mother Nature's timetable. Once my plants lose their store blooms, they normally don't bud again until they grow out a full set of leaves. That is all violets, not just Optis. I wouldn't know how to get them to bloom sooner. When I had a light stand flora cart, the Optis did not like it. They do better in indirect window light and seem ok with less than 12 hours. Joanne

I had a similar experience, Joanne. I purchased a large plant of O. My Love at an AV show and sale and it took me a while to notice that it was "downsizing" itself under my care. I couldn't imagine what I was doing wrong and then I read about the Optimara's not liking artificial light so I moved it from my plant stand to near a window. While it continued to live, it never really looked the same as when I purchased it. The leaves were smaller with shorter stems and the blooms were smaller as well, coming up on these honking thick stems to stand straight up above the foliage. While that looked good on the original plant with large leaves bearing large blooms, the fat stems looked odd on the now smaller leaved and blossomed plant.

I just recently pitched it onto the compost pile in a down-sizing move.

I agree with Joanne. I know from working in greenhouses that from the time seeds or leaves are sown, they are fed and grown on a consistent and rapid schedule of watering and fertilizing because the goal is not to keep them there to enjoy,,,,it is strictly for getting them grown and sold and out the door.

Once the (let's just refer to violets from here on in) violet goes home, you can't duplicate the perfect conditions the greenhouse provided. Now the violet "settles" into your routine. And they adapt to the schedule, food, water and light conditions they are given. Our best efforts can produce great violets but possibly short of greenhouse standard.

If you understand (AND accept) that, then you can settle back and enjoy your violets as they should be without them being "forced" by artificial means to push them to the limits of perfection that normal homes cannot provide.

I know this and when I get a violet or leaf and grow it, I don't expect it to perform the way I have seen it in "ultimate" photos. Because I know. And I grow them to the best of my ability (flaws notwithstanding!) and love them just the same.

That is just my two cents! Or as Joanne would say, due to inflation, my quarter's worth! Rosie

Hi, Anne,

O's are supposed to be grown under window light, so it is not the light. I also got MyLove, or one of those with the newer bloom. It is just "not my cup of tea, "so I will "forgive" you for pitching your plant into the compost pile!

I have only noticed this dwarfing about O's in the past year or two, but I am sort of an unconscious gardener. If the plant wants to turn into a shrimp in my care, I just rationalize to myself that I now have a small standard with a lot of leaves. Then I started to think of the O's that go to market as the Thanksgiving turkeys, plumped up for a one-time consumption.

A friend just gave me an Optimara to repot for her. Once it stopped blooming, it looked bad to her. Then she went on vacation for a few weeks. Someone was watering her plants. During that time, it developed three crowns of tiny leaves. I asked what it looked like at first, she said she thought the leaves were bigger when it was just one crown. So this happens to everyone.

Joanne

AnnaCecilia,

Ouch, what a sad end. :-(

"My Love" is one of my Optimaras and in fact, I just finished repotting it a few minutes ago. I had let it sit in the store's soil for a few weeks so it will acclimate to my house and now I wicked it and placed it in the classic mix of 1/3 AV soil-vermiculite-perlite.I also dropped a few Osmocote in the soil for good measure because this fertilizer had done wonders on various of my plants before.

(As for using the Osmo on minis and getting them to grow larger than they should be, theoretically...it doesn't really bother me because I don't grow for show. My Jitterbug thrived after Osmocote - the foliage was gorgeous, it bloomed like crazy and continues to be very sturdy and prolific to this day. It is taking a break from blooming right now though).

But going back to My Love, I couldn't help getting it because of its impressive bloom color (love the high-contrast, strong-color blooms). It was also huge as a plant when I saw it at the store.

That being said, if Optimara uses Voo-Doo to artificially pump-up their plants only to leave buyers no chance to ever have them like this again...then this is not something I appreciate.

For a while I only bought Optimaras because I thought they were hard and sturdy and prolific bloomers and I would have the highest chance for success with them. I didn't want to mess with the "specialties" anymore because I had lost pretty much all I tried in the past - so I simply thought Optimara would be the "no fuss, easy route".

Then again, none of the Optimaras I bought over time lasted either, so that should have told me something. Now that I think of it, all of my Optimaras died quicker than most "specialties" I tried.

Surprisingly enough, the only plant that has lasted though major mistakes and some neglect for me ....was the Jitterbug miniature. Going on 3 years now - my biggest success so far. This little thing must be invincible because it bounces back gloriously from the most horrible situations. And yes, this was the one fed with Osmocote. :-)

Optimaras, by contrast, look like invincible elephants when you bring them home but sooner or later they go south for whatever reason (almost no matter what you do), and once they go a little South, the downward spiral is guaranteed to happen.

My AV hobby kind of perked up again since I returned from a longer trip overseas; so I am about to give specialties another try.

I just ordered 6 nice plants from Travis Violets and can't wait to get them now. Tiger Fredette, Alamo Explosion and a few others. Can't wait to get them home.

Begonia, Thanks for the write up, I have had many of the same thoughts about O's. Sometimes they are fragile, other times, they are tough.

I learned they have to be repotted after they first stop blooming. It can take mine a year or more to adjust to behaving like a normal violet instead of a plumped up Thanksgiving turkey. (As the kids say, "My Bad!") Sorry about comments on MyLove, it is probably a different one that I have of the My's such as MyJoy that I have. (That has often happened to me, a violet I am mad for someone else blithely tosses away!) I will keep it because many want leaves from it cause it is new. I find Lyon's own hybrids to be the most reliable performers in my environment and I live clear across the country from them. I think they grow in natural light as I do.

Why not join the Round Robin that members from this group set up? We are getting ready for three trades hosted by different ladies. One is for a regular RR, another is for Optimaras, and the third is a Secret Santa in September. If you want to join, send me a PM with your email and I will forward to the moderator or post here. Off to work now! Joanne

I have to wonder if the incredible shrinking violet syndrome is related to the health of the root system. I know that stuff I grow in the garden depends upon good roots. In other words, you feed and water the roots this year so you get better growth/bloom next cycle. Plants need a break, time to recover. You push them to bloom, then you feed them in bloom, and when done, you lather, rinse, repeat. Change the soil more often, making sure the residual chemicals are gone. Give the poor plant a break. I was shocked earlier this summer when I found a baggie of leaves in soil that I put in to propagate. The bag was still sealed, and six of the seven leaves had grown into plants. Placed them in pots and now they are going gangbusters. Dunno,just some middle of the night musing here ...

enjoy

dave

Hi Dave,,,,sometimes middle of the night musings make more sense. You bring up an interesting point. Do we get the violet,,,,plant and watch the violet,,,,,and when one little thing is not what we expect, we (as you say) lather, rinse, and repeat????? (love that phrase!)

The one benefit of planting in open soil is if the plant roots can't get what they need where they are,,,, they travel! Go ahead,,,plant a violet in a protected spot and see what happens! You will be amazed,,,I have done it years ago just for grins & giggles!!!!

But on a more serious note, every time we do something, we need to wait at least a month IF NOT MORE for the plant to cycle with it. I read again and again on this forum the constant change the soil, repot, mess with fertilizer dosage etc. This is a living thing, and I wonder if we expect too much too soon and not give the poor thing a chance to use what we gave it and mature?

I remember decades ago, we would set down a leaf/get a baby/get that long awaited first flower and then be a little disappointed when that flower wasn't quite as advertised. But we also were of the mind that first flowers may or may not be exactly as pictured.

We would just go ahead and keep on caring for that plant and before we knew it the plant would come into it's own and we would have what we thought we should have and life would go on. In other words, first it is a baby then it grew into what it should be. An adult plant. The plant matured. AND it took time. Not a month, but more like almost a year!

I wonder if in this world of instant gratification we have forgotten that some (certainly not all) things need to build up and mature before they can perform to expected standards.

Which leads to the constant potting, repotting, changing of fertilizer, move from this window to that window. The poor thing just starts getting used to one change we made (even though WE can't see it yet it is happening internally!) and we make another.

Now I agree that when we bring that violet or leaf home there will be a certain amount of changing. I learned from this forum the pitfalls of leaving my Optimaras in that awful stuff they pot it in. Yes,,,,,some things have to change to bring the plant up to speed with YOUR climate and conditions.

I am not talking about that. I am talking about OOPS!,,,,,first flowers aren't right,,,,,change something. OOPS!.....moved the plant and it has been 3 weeks and something else isn't right,,,,,change something. OOPS! and here we go again,,,,,,,,change something before the poor plant doesn't know what to do. Can you just see it throwing up it's little arms (leaves) and giving up??? Then we throw it on the compost pile. And maybe we even say, "that variety is unstable, does not perform, not as advertised, unreliable etc.

I also have been guilty of just that sort of thing. Especially since I got "back into violets" the last couple years. I forgot to invite someone to the table. Her name is PATIENCE. In my excitement I forgot to bring her with me. I wanted to be in the place I used to be (years ago) with violets and didn't realize she was my guiding force and I left her in my dust. I am looking for her now. And yes that is going to make a change in how I care for my violets, but it will be for the betterment of them. And it will be sloooooow changes. And I will let more things play out to see where they go instead of saying "OOPS!!!,,,that wasn't suppose to happen I am changing something!!!!!!

Violets take time to grow. Whether adapting from the greenhouse mass production or from a leaf we obtain somehow and plant with great expectation. Greenhouses (and other mass producing places that are in a business of selling) push the plants hard and manipulate them to grow and bloom with one goal in mind,,,,,,,,,selling and making room for the next batch. WE CANNOT keep up with those conditions! You may (or may not) get a flower on that little violet you just ordered. Maybe it is still a bud and opened in transit. Hmmmm, do you really think it may have all of the size and lushness of a mature blossom? Possibly not. And maybe sometimes. But that is a baby you just ordered. Usually right off the line. It is not going to pick up (at your house) where it left off (from the point of sale).

Now in the store you get one that is more mature. Pushed to the next level of growth because they are too large to ship these to you thru the mail. They are now too large to travel safely, so off to Lowe's, Meijer, Trader Joe's etc they go! These may have that second row of blooms. They should be pretty true to what that plant will produce. But once again,,,,they are taken from a perfect environment, packed however they pack them, put them in boxes with no light, care or anything else, and jostled and delivered to some store to wait to be unceremoniously unpacked and crammed onto a shelf. That is where we find them. And we look and say "Ahhh, I love that,,,,and we buy it.

Then a lot of us start with all of the things we think we should do. And a lot of us forget PATIENCE.

I can remember sometimes (more often than not) planting the plantlets from the leaves and NOT letting it bloom until the second round of blossoms were set. First good stable leaf growth, THEN the nutrient sucking blooms were allowed to show their stuff. But the plant was a little more mature and when the 2nd round of blooms were allowed to open the entire plant was well fed and the show was worth the wait. This was in my basement under lights and I was dead serious about growing them back in the 1960s. And I worked at a greenhouse and learned a lot. Both good and bad.

And I do believe that growing in the house waiting for that second set of blossom helps the plant be sturdier and stronger. Do I do it???? I will now that PATIENCE has moved in with me. Although her brother, IMPATIENCE is always peeking around the corner. He is hard to ignore but I am going to try really hard. I am going for the long haul. And he doesn't do well with that.

Well, having said all of this, I know someone is going to say "but I did all of that and nothing worked so I had to get rid of it." I get it. If you think you did everything that could be done and you ran out of resources (or Patience lol) then do what you think you gotta do. After all it is still up to the individual how they are going to manage their plants. Sometimes our best efforts are just not enough. And sometimes our plants are just not gonna grow for us with our imperfect conditions. Far be it for me to demand you do it a certain way. Remember this is strictly MY opinion. And MY resolve. And I hope my new epiphany works for MY plants. Just my ramblin' thoughts----Rosie

PS Anne,,,,I would have taken your baby!!!!

Rosie,

You make a great point about patience. I have been guilty of not having enough of it in the past. This situation with the Optimaras though came up over the long-term. Looking back, this is how they tend to behave at my house, with the culture practices I have used. I am pretty sure it is either a light or fertilizer thing. It might have been the second as I may have been measuring incorrectly.

I will need a lot of patience though to wait for the outcome of any change in practice. For example, I took one Optimara off the grow lights - I simply turned off the light fixture as I only have one other plant there right now (the Jitterbug, that DOES - however - like light).

After a week or so, I think the Optimara stems are starting to reach up a bit, yet the center is still tight. So I can't even tell which one is it: is it asking for light or now?

But like you said, the change in practice has been too recent to draw any conclusions and I need patience.

It's hard when you are trying to figure out what you are doing wrong and the only way to really find out is to let a lot of time go by - when what you changed might not even have been the solution in the first place.

Yeap...LOTS of patience needed with this little hobby. :-)

Rosie (and Dave too), I think what you say makes a lot of sense. Also all Optimaras no longer do well in the window., That was true enough at one time but I don't think it is true now. They have made so many varieties. Some are absolute crackerjacks but, like with any hybridizer, they are not all alike. I have been trying out the myLove series and so far they have not seemed to be such strong growers as some of the others. I have problems with the names but I do think I saw myLove yesterday. They generally do not seem to be large (also have been looking like a somewhat mixed bag lately). Kent Stork crossed with one to improve the foliage which I can understand but I have not seen that for sale (Ace of Diamonds perhaps...Ace of something). It's not always a bad thing to have a small standard though. Who knows? We grouse at Optimara for having the I and a II and a III but maybe they will improve the foliage. The spot in the middle was a change.

I have often found that I do have to grow my Optimara from my own leaf before I get a plant I am truly happy with. No, it never looks like it popped out of the Optimara Greenhouse but then it didn't , did it? We both enjoyed O. myDarling's blossoms earlier. I must find it and try to get that blooming again. It seemed to have a bit nicer foliage but so far they do not look like large plants for the most part here. Now R. Clementine. She is BBV (Big Beautiful Violet) :) You get a bunch of anything, you are almost bound to have disappointments. Some may be your conditions or maybe it is the strain of plant you got; it can be frustrating. Maybe it is where you got it. I got a plug of a Space Violet from Optimara this spring and was shocked. I didn't remember ordering a plant...it is blooming now. That was $8 well spent - should have bought another I guess. Contrast that to what I have spent $16 on elsewhere....
Diana

47,

I would love to PM you about the Round Robin but I do not see any way to do it. I clicked on your profile but there is no button that would allow me to get in touch with you privately.

Maybe there is something wrong on my side? ...

You have to set up your Houzz account to receive PMs. The Facebook page is for African Violet RR's. I believe you need to have a FB account to use it. By you don't have to be a "friend" because it is a public group. I can try to get the exact name to request an invitation

Rosie, good advice! Optimara plants bought from them directly are usually the same as stire bought only a little nicer. That is, full size. As I am originally from New England where the growing cycles are so brief and indoor plants so uncommon, and we are known for frugality, I cannot imagine tossing a plant. Living plants that bloom indoors would have been considered a real luxury years ago. Maybe I am not yet a true gardener. Joanne

Begonia if you want to pm anyone on this forum,,,,,put your cursor over their user name by their pix and it will say follow. Click on it to follow them, tell them you did it so they can do the same for you and then you can click on it again,,,,it will take you to THEIR home page and in the upper right hand corner it will say "message". Click on it and pm them! That is all there is to it!!!

I don't do facebook so I can't help you there. Rosie

PS I clicked follow on your name so if you do the same on my name we can pm each other if necessary! Cool huh?

Begonia, I forgot to tell you. Turning off the lights means you still have to give them a window or something. AND of course the longer outer stems will reach up first. The crown has little baby stems by the middle, but trust me without adequate lighting those little arms will start reaching up as they lengthen. But they have to lengthen first. They will just grow out and reach up all in one fell swoop! And it is not only the stem that will lengthen, the actual leaf will usually get larger to have more surface area to try to capture more light which is why when we give more light, the leaves get a little smaller, the stems won't grow so long etc.

Your little Jitterbug sounds like a gem. I will have to find a pix of it. It sounds very forgiving as far as "grower error"!!!!! At the rate I am going I may need to get one of them! Rosie

Seriously? You all think it is wrong to let a plant go by recycling it in the compost bin? None of you saw this plant. No one knew just
how long I tried to make it happy (2 years - is that Patience enough?) No one knows my space
limitations. Yet I am chided for having tossed a plant and I'm simply astounded. I do NOT share plants that I think are growing oddly, are sickly or
even just plain problematic for me. Why would I knowingly pass on my troubles to someone
else? What is wrong with composting plants? It's
proper recycling, isn't it? The "OUCH" comment really floored me. Is that you feeling the plant's pain or what? Thank you all, you've made me really, really sorry for commenting on this thread...but NOT sorry for tossing my Optimara My Love. It needed to leave my collection and it's not the first - and I suspect won't be the last.

Anne

Truly needing a break from this forum for a while now.

AnneCecilia,

So sorry if my "ouch" comment came across the wrong way. All I was saying was that I was sorry the plant didn't work out for you in the end.

You didn't have to read so much into a 100% innocent comment.

If it didn't work, it didn't work - not for a second would I judge you that you tossed a plant - and it's pretty clear to me no one on this forum has done that either. And even if they did, why - oh why - would you ever care?

The way I read Rosie's "patience" post was as am insight/ tip - and it was darn helpful and reassuring. I learned a lot from it and it would never occur to me in a million years to read it as a "judgement" or a "finger wag" or anything "offensive".

Even if she'd written it with the very purpose of "chiding" us (which she didn't!)...so what?

Have we all become so incredibly thin-skinned? We can't even take someone telling us to exert more patience with something as vanilla as gardening? ????? OMG. No wonder there is so much vitriol and incredible touchiness on pretty much any boards that involve actual opinions about life - including politics, lifestyles, parenting practices, etc.

People seem to be literally looking HARD to be offended - I can't explain it otherwise.

As far as I am concerned, I know I need to develop more patience, especially when it comes to changing a practice and then waiting to see if the change gave any results. This doesn't mean that Rosie's patience comment applies to you or that YOU need to develop more patience.

You know better than anyone else when it's time to toss a plant - and if you tossed it, good for you! You paid for it, you cared for it - it is your right to throw it away whenever YOU see fit - whether this would be judged wrong or right by someone else.

I would never be the one judging anyone for lack of patience because I need to develop a lot more myself.

Rosie,

I turned off the fixture light and left them with the window only. My shelf is set against a window in the kitchen - that seems to be south-eastern. It really doesn't looks like it gets all that much light as the SE position might suggest, except a few hours during the afternoon and only if the sun is full then; maybe this is because of the vegetation around, who knows...

So yes, the plants do receive some natural light during the day...but I am really not sure it is enough for ideal bloom. Before I temporarily unplugged the fixture - I was supplementing with artificial lights after hours (2 regular tubes from Wall Mart, about 10 $ each), - from about 6 to 11 pm or so.

It may have been too much, too long, the plants may have been too close to the tubes...I don't know. But the Optimaras looked stunted, hard/brittle and curled. I think even the Jitterbug had started to kind of point its leaves downwards but overall, he was OK.

So now I have had this Optimara and the Jitterbug completely off artificial light for less than a week (these two is all I have left on that stand).

Well...go figure...the Optimara has already started to reach up on one side (the middle stems).

So it almost sounds like an old saying from my home country: "It's bad with the bad, but it's worse without the bad".

If it was too much light that was causing Optimara's curly, smaller, tight leaves - then it doesn't look like being off supplemental light is that great for her either.

OR...

...it might just not be the light after all, but the fertilizer. Today I marked down the day when I will start putting all my AV-s on a complete fertilizer break for 1 month, just to see if the tightness goes away.

I read some more on these boards and I found at least two people who had the same problem and discovered that it went away when they put their AV-s on a 1 month fertilizer break.

I thought I was careful with the fert but I never skipped feeding for fear I might not get bloom.

So I want to see what happens during a fert-free month - and will report.

And yes, I will need PATIENCE. :-)

Oh...so you're not tempted by more fertilization just to get more blooms? :)

I am crazy about the blooms of AV-s and to be honest, most of the foliage I could take it or leave it. With the exception of some variegated varieties that are really stunning, the leaves of av-s don't move me much. But I understand they must be well developed to get those blooms. That's why I never laid off the fertilizer so far and this is why my plants may be kind of tight. I guess we'll find out after 1 month of no ferty. :)

Sorry all and esp. Begonia2015 if I read into your words what was not intended. I'm just having a rough week; pay me no mind.

Anne, anyone who has ever read ANY of your posts on ANY thread in gwf knows that what you wrote just was "not you".

I am sure everyone could see there was something that pointed to a really bad day and it just came out here.

Personally, you did not hurt my feelings with your comment. I could see the pain of a really bad day in your post. It just didn't sound like you.

There is nothing to forgive. Hope your week gets better! Rosie

Hi Begonia! Ok glad to hear they are near a window! Let me reach to my way back memory. Anyone else feel free to jump in if I misspeak, after all I am going by memory.

Ok, here goes. When I raised violets strictly under lights (just normal 4ft tubes) I believe I left them on for about 12 to 14 hours per day. There was no supplemental lighting from windows as my 3 tiered shelf was in the basement.

Now, as you know, some plants preferred the middle intense light of the tubes and some preferred the lower intensity of the ends of the tubes, and believe it or not,,,,,I remember setting up a little table NEXT to and smack up against the end of the plant cart for a few violets that wanted hardly no light at all!!!!! But they did very well that way! I let the violets tell me what they wanted and who was I to argue with them???

In your case, you had some supplemental light from your almost SE window. I would say (gulp here I go with memory) you may do better if you use your flourescent lights maybe just from morning until you get your good window light and at that point set your timer to turn off the lights.

You realize that this arrangement will change with the day length as it changes. I don't know how frequent that will be. I haven't done flourescent lighting for over 30 years. Winter may see you adjusting your lights to where they will be on a lot. But the way the day length is now, I wonder if you could just use the lights for supplemental instead of all day.

This would be an experiment, but what the heck? You have nothing to lose and everything to gain!

You mentioned "the Optimara already starting to reach on one side" Ok, when you grow a violet either in window OR under lights (especially in a window) you still have to rotate them a quarter turn every couple days so they don't reach from one side only. It gives all of the leaves equal exposure to light, and they will grow symmetrically. And even when I grew plants (yes I had other things under lights also!) under lights I would rotate and/or change their positions somehow so every plant got equal (as I could make it) exposure.

Light doesn't only have to fall on the leaves themselves to have the violet do well and blossom. The light (as I remember it) also needs to get waaaay into where the stem connects to the "neck" or trunk of the plant. This helps promote blossom. That is why we strive for symmetry. Light should get to all inner areas of the violet also.

As far as the fertilizer. If you feed your plant for a week, and then give just regular water for a week you have NOT stopped feeding your plant!

Bear with me here please,,,,,during the week your plant was "feeding", the "food" was in the soil, stems leaves blossoms and any other part of the plant that there is.

Now, you start giving plain water. All of that residual "food" is still being used as the plant is now sucking up plain water. So by the end of the week of plain water your plant should be almost "filled" with the last of the fertilizer and almost with plain water.

Fertilizer doesn't just disappear the minute you start using plain water. It went in first it will be used up as the plain water starts entering the soil, stems, leaves and blossoms.

Like flushing out a hose that has colored water in it. Color was there first, now use the plain water and first the color comes out then faded color comes out then plain water!

Gosh am I babbling or do you (or anyone) understand what I am trying to say?

AND I learned this using Peter's fertilizer. It is blue and that is where you learn about color going thru a hose! Rosie

PS. We used Peter's to water AV's at the greenhouse and I loved it! Do they still make/sell it anywhere?

Ok,,,,,I am done finally. Hope some of this helps. Rosie