Oh, you will panic. You. Will. Panic. Bwahahaha!

Mostly because we all panic, nature of the beast and all that. No year is perfect for germination in all particulars, and this one looks to be shaping up to be no exception.

>>Morpheus, I'm interested to hear about this "sprout and pout" you mention?

Bluegrass sprouts, sends its basic leaf, eventually develops to a rosette of five or so adult, but small, leaves.

Then it sits. And sits. And sits. Growth is nil, development nil, and it looks like it's just resting on its laurels, being thin and short and kind of sad looking.

It's actually not, it's working very hard to set up basic root systems, a process you don't want to disturb, although you should help it do so all you can by keeping it properly fed and watered.

Finally--and it doesn't always happen the first fall--the grass starts to grow, slowly at first, and accelerates. At that point, it's officially an adolescent. It still needs some coddling, but not nearly as much, and growth rates are near normal.

By fall of the following year from planting, it should be growing normally and, if not quite at full density yet, getting a lot closer.

Well I had a chance to do some checking this morning and i certainly have some sprouts coming up in different areas.....now i need to see if there are any areas that com in bare.......I hope not!

A few will almost certainly be very sparse. It's not a big concern, and you can dormant those come February or just before your first snowfall.

In ten thousand square feet of a renovation, I'd estimate that several hundred square feet will disappoint you. That's about par for the course.

I certainly assume i'll have thin grass in the spring. Would you suggest that i replant any thin/bare areas in April or since its KBG, apply a pre-m and let the grass that there spread?

It depends. If the fall seeding and a dormant seeding both fail and the area is really thin, an April seeding might be warranted. If it turns out to be just a little thin, you can probably pre-M, feed well organically, and let it ride.

Most of my lawn was in the feed and ride area of the spectrum, and the few that weren't did well enough with dormant seeding to ignore come spring.

At what point in the maturity of KBG will it start to "spread" or "fill in"? Wondering how long

My experience: the third year with some the second. For you, 2018 with some in Fall 2017.

Do you think I should lay a little more seed in the areas where I think it may be light and/or washed away a bit?

>>At what point in the maturity of KBG will it start to "spread" or "fill in"? Wondering how long

It very much depends on your care regimen. In my case, with heavy organic feedings and perfectly balanced soil, strong spread started the first spring (with a little late in the previous fall at an age of 2 months). That continued through the summer and closed the P. annua sections I killed out with Round Up by the first fall, but I was working on that specifically. Maturity was similarly accelerated, but roots still take time and energy to grow. So although fairly impressive the first summer, I still wouldn't say it was fully mature until its first birthday.

In poor soil, and/or with lackadaisical care, spread can take a few years to get going, and it's never anywhere near as strong as it will be with better care/balanced soil.

For mid-range care on tolerable soil, it'll be in the middle.

>>Do you think I should lay a little more seed in the areas where I think it may be light and/or washed away a bit?

I'd hold off a bit, unless there are obvious gullies in the ground. Underseeding, even fairly severely, isn't that much of a problem with KBG since it's a spreading grass. Overseeding is asking for fungal diseases.

We still have a window. If, in a week, the area looks really under-sprouted, then maybe add a little. Plus you have the dormant seeding season this winter to correct sparse areas.

Can I dormant seed if I add pre-m in mid April?

I wouldn't, unless you use mesotrione which can be followed by any pre-m if you like 4-6 weeks later. BTW, it isn't 2016 so instead of 2017 and 2018 in my prior post, make that 2016 and 2017. That was my experience with high synthetic apps.

Hey Morph, I was reading your blog quickly and had a question for you. You say around thanksgiving you add a high nitrogen synthetic. What brand/numbers do you recommend and at bag rate?

also, I see you put down a lot of soybean meal but since I need to add the boron I'll use milorganite for the oct 1 feeding. I need to find a place up here that supplies the corn and soy stuff. Tractor supply carries some stuff

This year it's Vigoro 29-0-4 (I think. That's close at least). Why? It was cheapest per unit of nitrogen this year. :-)

Technically, I can get urea (46-0-0) much cheaper per pound of material and far cheaper ($0.65) per pound of nitrogen. I could do the entire lawn for $6.50. I don't because urea is a bit touchy on application, requiring timing before a rainfall of 1/4" to 1", and strong enough that an accident will burn, no questions asked. The Vigoro gives me more margin.

I lean toward soy for the same basic reason--it's cheapest per pound, with good nitrogen levels, so also cheapest per unit of nitrogen.

So i'm focusing a lot on my front yard (1 week of fallowing after the RU scalping is really holding off the weeds) but i wanted to know what you guys think i should do to my back yard this year in terms of prepping the soil for a renovation next august.

I plan to get all the moving and shaking done on it by mid summer. That includes a playset and pad, paver patio and a pool with a rather large deck area.....and this October we are planting some new landscaping. Once all of this is done I am looking to to realign the irrigation to the new layout and do some minor leveling with fresh soil to level off the places where the land settled (this is a new construction house).....not looking to do anything that will change the drainage flow.......i have a dry well in the back too so drainage isn't much of an issue for me.

I expect my "lawn" sqft will be different when i'm done as well so i'll recalculate that before the reno. So given that all of this is happening, would you suggest i do any feedings or prep? I was definitely going to add the boron due to the logan labs test results but should i look to increase the organics as well by feeding with milorganite and the such?

+1 for the boron to keep the soils synchronized on that.

Beyond that, with a fallow area (or at least one that's going to become fallow), you can feed it you want, or not if you don't want.

Given the soil disturbance from hardscaping, I probably wouldn't bother with the organics. There's time enough for that next fall.

great, it'll get the milor this october (for the boron carrier) but other than that i won't bother with it. We just had some trees taken out so im going to clean that up and let it roll till they break ground for the pool

Question, is there any use for charcoal ashes in a lawn? These are hardwood ashes (not kings ford) and I have a bucket of them since I just cleaned out my big green egg.

let me know if there is a use otherwise they are going to the dump!

thanks

I wouldn't recommend it. Although it contains good mineral content and K (about 5-5.5%), it is also very alkaline and contains quite a bit of salt and softwoods even more so. Plus you don't have enough to do more than 500-1000 sq feet. Makes no sense to throw a small area out of whack with the rest of the lawn.

Most commercial charcoal briquette ash is *never* acceptable. Borax is used as a binder, so it gets added to your boron load (not generally a problem, but let's not take chances, and definitely I'd never recommend use on any more-arid soil [which you fortunately don't have]). Some of the chemical additives in the stuff to get it to burn evenly are awful for the soil.

Let's not even discuss lighter fluid's remains, although fortunately that's not going to be too much of a problem in a charcoal fire that burned for a while.

Bio-char would be acceptable in smaller amounts, as would wood ash from any untreated wood. In that instance, 5 to 10 pounds per thousand square feet per year is not a problem.

Wood ash works out to be about 25% calcium carbonate, which means about 8% calcium by weight. That makes it a bit more than a quarter as pH-shifting as calcitic limestone just from that. And that's not the only alkaloid in there, you also get potassium carbonate in good measure.

All ash contains most of the heavy metals that were in the original wood, but now concentrated as most of those don't form volatile compounds. There's another reason to be cautious.

So while the stuff does have its place, and can even be helpful in small measure when composting, you do have to be very careful. The easiest way to deal with that is simply not to use it.

A question for you guys. When i did my renovation, i didn't add a starter because I put a starter down a few weeks (4-5) prior to it......I followed the recommendations from Morph from the soil test and added the milorganite. With that said, i'm 18 days out from planting and i'm seeing a lot of sprouts, around 1-1.5". Should i expect the sprouts to really take off now that they will be getting some added nutrients?

And - about milorganite - I was doing some reading and it says that it doesn't break down in "cool" weather......it needs the heat to do it. So my question is, how "cool" is too cool?

Just want to make sure my babies are getting enough food. I'm seeing great coverage but as suggested there are some thin areas but nothing bare.

Milorganite never really dumps nutrients into the soil (a good thing, actually), instead giving a more sustained feeding. So hyper-acceleration won't happen. Since rapid growth tends to come at the cost of root system growth, it's not a disadvantage.

This fall, most of the work will be done below ground, getting root systems ready to survive the winter. Some top growth and thickening will happen, of course, as well.

>>And - about milorganite - I was doing some reading and it says that it doesn't break down in "cool" weather......it needs the heat to do it. So my question is, how "cool" is too cool?

Soil temperatures of fifty or above are in the mid-range. Decay continues at a decelerating pace right down to freezing. It continues below that, but only at an incredibly slow rate. Presently, soil temperatures are completely acceptable everywhere except northern Maine, and even there, it'd just be slow.

Update and questions.

The lawn seems to have germinated quite well, entering the 4th week and we are scheduled for rain just about every day this week.

Sprout and Pout - how soon does this occur? Wondering if i'm in it now because it certainly seems to have sprouted but it isn't getting incredibly high/growing.

I didn't use a fertilizer (put it down a month prior before i decided to reno) and the milor is entering its 4th week as well......should the grass pick up from here on out as the milor breaks down?

If the lawn stays short/pouting, do i need to do anything before it heads into the winter or is this a good thing as its spending its time growing roots?

Second application of milor going down this weeknd with some 20 mule sprinled on it so I can get that amendment in.

Planning on the high N synthetic around turkey day for the winterization.

Thoughts, let it roll?

Thanks

Milorganite is an organic fertilizer so you should have plenty of fertilizer, especially since you're putting some Milo down this weekend. On the high N synthetic, it goes down after the grass stops growing (when you have put your mower away for the year) and before the ground freezes. That very well could be at Thanksgiving but it may vary year to year. So just be observant. Also, be sure to water it in well after applying. Since you may have winterized your irrigation system by then, you may want to time the application for right before a rain. As for anything else, did you need lime? I'm not going to read through this thing to find out, but that's possibly something else to do if you need it and it hasn't been done. Mow when the grass needs cutting. Don't water on the day you mow until after mowing. Make your turns on hard surfaces or adjacent areas, or make slow three point turns. Keep your blade sharp. If you have leaves, mulch mow them into the lawn.

>>Sprout and Pout - how soon does this occur? Wondering if i'm in it now because it certainly seems to have sprouted but it isn't getting incredibly high/growing.

That's Sprout and Pout! KBG does it pretty much as soon as it sends out a few adult leaves. Right now, it's not actually pouting, per se, it's just working on root systems far more than the above-ground growth.

How long will it last? Hard to say. Some lawns never exit S&P their first fall, particularly those planted in colder locales. Most should begin to exit it by mid-October (assuming proper planting, which you did), but it's no great shakes. Mine was a slightly early planting, went into slow growth around October first, and looked pretty good by October 15th--but it was a warm year.

>>I didn't use a fertilizer (put it down a month prior before i decided to reno) and the milor is entering its 4th week as well......should the grass pick up from here on out as the milor breaks down?

Since you're hitting it with more Milo, that'll be taken care of.

The fast nitrogen component (up to 40%) of Milo will enter the soil immediately and break down rapidly to feed the new sprouts.

The slow nitrogen component (at least 60%) will take 3 weeks to get started, then gently feed the lawn for months. In your case, with the winter stall on the stuff, that means well into spring.

Minor nitrogen amounts are still being released even after a full year.

>>If the lawn stays short/pouting, do i need to do anything before it heads into the winter or is this a good thing as its spending its time growing roots?

It's fine if it continues to pout, and that depends so much on the weather. Let it grow its roots without forcing and charge them with sugars to survive the winter. There's no need to kick it.

>>Planning on the high N synthetic around turkey day for the winterization.

Perfect! Winterization might be a bit early this year as your newer KBG isn't going to risk much in the way of resources to stay awake for winter.

Thanks guys! @Becky, no other amendments were recommended based on the soil test past the boron. Ph was 7.1 if I recall and I think the plan there was to just let it fall a bit.

sounds like I'm in good shape on the fertilizer and I can deal with this pouting, I'm in no hurry with this.

we are supposed to get a boat load of rain this week, like 6" and 3" of it in one day. I'm sure the grass will like it and I hope it helps the bare areas take a little better hold, happy with about 80% of the areas

That should be very nice, not to mention the constant rain and damp will kick along any sprouts that aren't quite up to speed yet.

We're only supposed to get about 2.5", but Tropical Storm Joaquin also looks to be coming in this weekend!

We've had an absolute drought here in NJ. I'm surprised there's so little coverage of it. It has rained once in a stretch of something like 80 days. Of course I'm trying to bring in a new section of lawn throughout this. I've had to water 6x/day for a month just to keep up, but looks like finally we'll get a stretch of rain.

yeah short of this week of rain, I've had I think 1 day of any type of significant rain. Sure wasn't helping with the Reno! I've been watering twice a day lately and 3 times a day earlier so this rain will certainly help and as morph said, hopefully finish off the rest of the germination.

Joaquin changed track and is no longer projected to impact the northeastern United States (at the present instant, of course, that's subject to change a week out). So we'll get the rainfall this week, next week is up for grabs.

I would like to try and get the milo with the 20 mule on it down today. It is going to rain but i was wondering if i mix it in the garage and then walk it out, would there be any issue with that? I'd love to get the rain on the fresh application to wash in the boron and moisten the milo.

Thoughts?

Actually, looking back on Morph's recommendation, it was to not apply (or reapply) it until October 20th. Should i wait till then? I'm away that weekend so it would need to be before or after the 20th.

Thanks!

I might shoot for October 13th or October 27th. The date's not really that critical, and that amount of boron isn't going to stress the lawn either way.

I just want to buy the new stuff as much time as possible to grow roots and toughen up a bit. October 13th should do that.

So would i be correct in saying that adding it early would "switch" its focus from root development to "green growth"?

I went out and got 10 bags of milo and 2 bags of the vigoro for winterization so I'll be ready to go.

I was more thinking about the damage from walking and moving a filled spreader across the lawn, really--although it's probably mature enough even today to do that if the weather weren't awful.

Milorganite isn't going to dump enough fast nitrogen at bag rate to set off massive top growth. It's actually more likely to encourage root growth and rhizosphere development due to the extra organics flowing in.

During my reno, I was applying organics every two weeks from the seeding date (I never claimed to follow my own rules when I do stuff, but I was also walking carefully and using a spreader that was only partially full). Development was very strong, but clearly not getting ahead of root growth since the growth was never lanky.

Gotcha, given the weather this weekend i can certainly convince myself to find the couch sooner! I have a shed being delivered next week and they might have to drive the truck over the grass.....i'm cringing just thinking about it

Expect damage, particularly on wet soil. A hand aerator might actually come in handy in this one instance depending on the amount of soil compression.

Now ask me about the damage from putting my patio and back garden in. That was fun. Not.

Here's the front lawn (left section) at 32 days. This KBG sure does grow slow. Curious as to your thought on the higher, darker green patches

any thoughts on the dark green streaks in the bottom left of the photo?

Iooks like a question mark. Did you get more water in that spot or something? Maybe a hose was there?

I applied the 20 mule laced Milor this weekend so other than the last winterizer fertilization the lawn will be ready for the winter.

given that the new lawn in front is only 38 days young, how long should I continue to water it? I ask because some night time temps are scheduled to hit at or slightly below freezing (30-32) and I'm looking at having to schedule the system to be blown out.

Thoughts?

Our weather's getting close to doing the same thing, and I took down the manifolds yesterday (I'll do system blowout sometime this week, probably).

At this point, you can probably move to a "water when necessary" schedule since lower temperatures mean less evaporation. 38 days old means that necessary is quite often if temperatures rebound, but I'd plan on keeping it damp at the half inch to three quarter inch level for the next week or two. After that, it moves down to about an inch.

It will likely be 1-2 weeks before they can show up......i've half thought of blowing the lines out myself but i might watch them this year and then do it myself afterwards. I can hand hose if need be but my soil has been staying pretty damp as of late so that has to be a good thing.

At this point, I think you'll be fine on the lawn. It's not early fall weather-wise for much longer.

Blowing out a system is easy, you either need an air compressor and the correct connector to hook it up, or a finagled system. I finagle my shop vac (which can go forward or reverse) onto the line, blow it out, and then vacuum it out. It's not perfect, but so far I haven't had any issues.

Would a 40 hour heat pack duct taped to the back flow device, wrapped in a garbage bag help? I would think it would get it through the night, temps are estimated to be 28 degrees now

The internals of my backflow valve broke in my first year because the sprinkler company didn't get out to do the complimentary blow out for the first year. Then they wanted to charge me like $110 to fix it. I spent about $10 and repaired it myself. If you want to blow out your lines the main issue is whether you have a large enough air volume to push the water out of the tubing. If you have a small volume of air, it will tend to bubble along the top of the underground tubing and leave a significant amount of water still in the lines. I used a nail gun compressor last year and it seemed to work great. It is a 6 gallon compressor, which is a small one. Just connect it upstream of your backflow valve, turn the compressor on, and run the system through it's zones in one or two minute durations. Keep doing that until you don't see any more water coming out. When I did it, I had to keep blocking in the compressor discharge to give it a chance to accumulate more air at a good pressure, and then I would open the discharge valve to allow that air volume to rush into the tubing system.

If you try to insulate the valve I would also run water through the system so that the water in the line is at least a little warmer. Alternatively, if there is anywhere you can crack open a valve or loosen a fitting on the discharge side of your backflow valve, you could let a dribble of water run through the night to keep it from freezing.

What he said. I find I don't have an issue, but the shop vac I used can pick up a brick (or do a decent job blowing leaves, for that matter). In my case, I remove my entire valve manifold, drain it, and store it in the garage (which can flirt with freezing, but won't until December at the earliest, giving the manifold plenty of time to drip out).

I think i've found all of the pieces needed to shut it down myself. i have a 6 gallon compressor which should do the job. The only thing that confuses me a little is that there is a high and low air fitting on the back flow device (only seperated by 2").....i can only assume that the top one goes out to the lines and the other one blows out the pipes back to the main connection. I'll wrap it in plastic once it is cleared out and keep the valves half open

I can't help you out with that one, I remove all valves and devices for winter storage before blowing out the lines.