Oh...don't get me started aegis. :)

I am so prone to getting excited about growing when I see pictures of gorgeous plants online. I can almost taste the beauty of a given variety and yet I know that once I get them at home, they won't really perform in my environment quite like this and they will hardly be as impressive as they look in the pics.

At least so far I have not been able to get consistent results over time.

There is always something that fails to develop as planned. Right now I have an Opti noid that is blooming quite well, yet the foliage has become so small, almost stunted - nothing like where it was when I got it at Pikes.

Not sure whether it is because I have been using a bloom booster ferty lately or what...

Either way, it has been difficult for me to get luscious, impressive plants - but like you, I get a lot of inspiration from pretty pics.

What helps even more is when I see a poster here posting their plants and seeing nice results from regular growers as opposed to über -specialists growing for show. :)

Oh so would I! Beautiful! Rosie

I'm having a bit more success than I've had in years in growing, but for the regular grower, such success can be coincidental rather than a sure thing.

For years, I attempted to support a collection of violets, ... all the while not knowing that I was undermined by Chloramine in my tap water supply.

I have grown violets for a total of, perhaps, 10 years, ... and I'd like to say that I've experienced everything that can go wrong with them, ... even knowing that it's not true.

In 1997 or so I tossed a first collection of perhaps (50) plants ... because of infestation of thrips and mealybugs. I did not grow any substantial numbers of violets for years following this.

In 2007, I started to build my collection again, ... and killed almost every plant I acquired from Lyndon Lyon. Eventually, I learned enough to keep most of my plants alive ... and was rewarded with a measure of nice blooming.

In 2010, I destroyed a batch of 20 new plantlets from Lyndon Lyon through over-fertilization. I tried mightily to salvage them, but the crowns were burnt out of the plants, rendering them useless for anything other that leaf starts (which I wasn't so successful at doing either).

In 2012 or so, I decimated a collection of (100 or so) otherwise healthy blooming AV's by exposing them to Broad Mite.

And in 2013, I finally discovered that my municipal water provider was putting Chloramines into our water supply, which would wreak havoc on my plants during the summer, ... and, undoubtably stunt them during the remainder of the year.

Even now, I'm battling an outbreak of Thrips.

But the collection (100 or so) is looking better than it has ever looked.

I get good growth ... and I get nice bloom.

Nothing like what is pictured above yet, ... but I'm working on it ...

... and I said all that to say ... that the regular grower can have success with AV's, but that such success requires learning the special care routines that AV's require.

Annie has remarked on her podcast that the major difference between successful AV growing and not ... is CONSISTENT ATTENTION. Which, effectively, means that you strive to VISUALLY observe each plant once at least every few days or so. That way, you can hopefully catch problems BEFORE they become major.

I would advise that success with AV's begins with the BASICS ....

WATER - providing good healthy water to your plants AS NEEDED (no more, no less).

LIGHT - providing adequate LIGHT for GOOD GROWTH and blooming

TEMPERATURE - providing consistently appropriate climate (not too hot, not too cold)

POTTING - appropriately draining potting which is not TOO LARGE to encourage GOOD GROWTH and BLOOMING

SOIL MIX - a mix that is light and airy enough to provide for adequate breathing of the plant roots

I've never used bloom booster, ... and I never would until I had gotten all of these elements under control.

Also understand HOW the plant naturally performs. Most African Violets will grow for a period (until they fill their pot with roots), and then begin blooming. After blooming, plants will REST and GROW again until they begin to bloom again in a few months. There is no healthy way to circumvent the natural cycles of AV's.

Collectors will get around this by having ENOUGH plants so that SOMETHING is always blooming, while perhaps, other plants are resting and growing. My real plan is to grow/rest my plants BEHIND the SCENES (basement/upstairs/etc.) ... and position currently BLOOMING plants for display.

Aegis you have certainly had your share of downs. But I am always glad to hear you got up time and time again to "live to fight another day" !!!!!

Anyone who has read my ramblings knows that I also have had streaks of bad luck. No matter how long I have been growing. Seems every few years there is a better way to start leaves, grow and fertilized our beloved violets. AND I am still learning!

Your advice is basic and beautiful. If we all just took a breath and started from the beginning s-l-o-w-l-y, instead of wishing for them to be big and beautiful and stay that way from the start, we would all be better off.

Doesn't it kind of remind you of the Aesop's fable about the Hare and the Tortoise? And the s-l-o-w Tortoise always is the winner!

I noticed this morning there are 2 plants that are forming new flower buds! One of them is a noid that I bought from Lowe's 1/2 dead/clearance a few months ago. It was nearing the end of its bloom cycle, was lacking water (very limp) but those flowers stood up tall and proud and promised if I would take her home she would recover and bloom again. So I took her home and she kept her promise!

She will not look like a show plant ever. I don't care. I just want her to bloom, rest and bloom again!

Glad to hear you have about 100 plants! Hope all do well for you!

If you give them what they need ... (water, light, food, mix, protection, etc.) ... they will bloom ...

I have bought lots of plants from Dave.(Blue Mountain violets)they are always nice and healthy and a pretty good size plants.He is very helpful with any questions too.

The comment about consistent attention is absolutely true. I have been a judge for a African Violet Society of America sanctioned shows and have entered as well. Winning plants are grown by people who are 100% consistent in the way they grow. They maintain temperatures and water quality year-round, they generally wick-water and use a constant fertilization program, and they never ever let suckers develop beyond much of anything. Once they can tell that it really is a sucker and not blossoms starting to develop, it's gone. Frequent repotting (no more than 6 months between repottings) is key as well. The plants above have also been groomed to remove any "baby" leaves, any leaves that are smaller than the row above them have been removed as well. Leaves may have been trained into place to fill in gaps as well, but that can't be discerned from the photos. In photos, the camera angle can be used to hide imperfections as well. Lastly, these plants were likely disbudded for a time to allow good foliage growth, and to allow the plants to come into full bloom all at once across the plant.

Begonia, I asked someone who is an expert of AVs. While we don't know for sure, it seems that this is not due to anything you are doing. Several people have noticed this lately with Optimara violets bought in stores. It could be that the company uses a product to stimulate growth. Like a temporary dose of "plant steroids." When they receive normal care, the leaves seem to be much smaller than normal. In time, they might resume normal growth size, but not the extra large growth they had in the stores. The store plants are often bought for a one time use, like a microwave plant.

This seems to be observed only with Optimara plants, but then, most other plants are bought as starters from a vendor, so they are probably not overly stimulated into bloom because those vendors are selling plants to collectors who want to grow them out.

Joanne

Hi, All, This is a fascinating discussion, thanks to Aegis for getting it going! These are the kinds of discussions that are so helpful to readers at all levels of experience on Garden Web and make is so worthwhile to keep reading GW! It is so interesting to read about others' experiences. Aegis, maybe one of these days or years, you will get to attend an AV show and sale if you haven't already. Whenever you have posted photos of your plants on GW, they have always looked awesome. I wonder if Dave of Blue Mountain sells on any Facebook pages as many other small vendors do now. I just have a personal aversion to every again buying on eBay, due to some unfortunate experiences in the past. I do have all of the varieties pictured, so maybe if I print the photos and put them on the wall in my violet room, the violets will get the idea. Which one do you like best? I like the Powwow, mine has never looked anything close to that. I know a couple of people who can grow plants like that. They have been at it for years and both have relatively small collections. So, after years of growing and "getting it out of their system," they are ready to narrow it down to some favorites. My Optimaras have pretty much evened out and grown into perfect, flat pancake whorls. They get the least attention of all as I wasn't planning to keep them. So, sometimes, a little neglect is a good thing, at least for Optimaras. As they begin to bud, they are being sent to new homes. This late August seems to be a blooming season in my area for AVs. Joanne

I don't believe that Dave sells anywhere but Ebay. He probably has no need to as his plants usually sell for a hefty price.

Of the group, I like Powwow. I do have a small plant of this variety but I doubt it will ever look this good. Its interesting that today on FB, Kent Stork, the hybridizer of Powwow, remarked that he has trouble growing the plant well. So if the creator has problems, I'm not going to feel too bad if my plant doesn't achieve perfection!

Terri

AVs are finicky plants for me which is why I grow mainly orchids (I find them MUCH more forgiving and easier to grow). For me, the most successful method for growing AVs is with them planted in terraria. They grow and bloom well for me under such conditions.

Paul,

Sometimes I hear AV growers being surprised at comments made by those who say AV-s are "difficult to grow". Given their experience and maybe just the right knack, I can see how some growers may be surprised when they hear such comments ; but after 3 years of growing and actively learning about AV-s, I continue to find them difficult to grow and I agree with those who say these are finicky plants.

For me, personally, this is fine because despite being difficult, they are lovely when in bloom and have the potential of blooming year round in the house - which I think is fantastic. Nothing gets me down more in the world of gardening than a flower that blooms one time and then you have to wait another year to hear from her again. :-((

The fact that they pose a challenge makes them even more exciting because when you DO get some good results, the satisfaction is so much higher.

It encourages learning and perfecting and I find this nice. If it was as easy as those greens that only need some water randomly dropped in the pot once in a while, I don't think I would get as many kicks our of growing them.

For me, the very difficult part has been the watering.

You would think that to water a plant is self-explanatory. As in "drop some water in".

It is amazing to me how fussy AV-s can be about being left to go only a smidge on the dry side or being given just a smidge too much water. Their Goldilocks complex is quite extreme, I would say. They also seem to like their soil to dry up a tad bit before being given any more water, yet not as much as to become truly dry; not that anyone knows exactly where "slightly dry" ends and when "truly dry" begins.

Or what damp/moist is and how to achieve that level when you actually pour some water in, whether from top or bottom, After all, when soil comes in contact with water, it doesn't become DAMP/MOIST. It always becomes WET. Because water IS WET, after all - not moist.

And if you only pour a few drops you wonder whether you covered all soil evenly, whether you started the wick action or not...kind of a mess, really.

Also it has been hard fort me to figure out how to give a break from wicking by waiting a day or two (as recommended) so that the AV will dry up her feet a little ...and then magically re-start the wick action again yet being careful not to soak up the soil at the same time.

I recently gave a large Opti (My Love) a brief break from wicking and when I had to re-start the wick I watered from below some; since the dampness had not reached the top, I also sprayed a little mist on top of the soil. Go figure, the next day a few leaves went limp.

Maybe there were too many and too big holes at the bottom of the pot? Maybe because the pot was large (because the AV is large too) and it sucked in too much water?

At the same time, don't they say that when you water from the bottom the plant takes in as much as it needs? I didn't even wait until the moisture reached the top and I took it out after a few minutes - so it's not like I left it in a swamp hours on end.

Despite all this care, the pot became quite heavy so it must have taken a bit of water in...so then I threw my hands up in the air.

I took off the few limp leaves and now the plant seems fine, except another leaf that went limp in the meantime; so I hope it will survive.

It looks like a huge, sturdy elephant, and yet it fainted over one drop of extra water, if any.

I know I am sounding just a little on the venting side here - but I was just trying to say "I hear you". :-)

With watering, something always happens in my environment.

Hi, Terri, You "made my day!" If you recall where you read that, I would like to read the interview, as I am a "fan" of the Storks! Mrs. is so kind, she is always repotting and rescuing AVs for her customers. I now do that for friends, rather than explaining to them. Some folks have a desire to fiddle with them, others don't.

Begonia, the holes in the Optimara pots are extra large for their thick, heavy peat they use to hold water and not have to be watered when in transit. So it is best to transplant their plants into normal pots when you change the potting mix. Or cover the inside bottom of the pot with a paper towel, leaving just enough room for the wick. Personally, I think it depends on your climate and environment. Violets grow easily for me in a temperate climate with a lot of light. When I lived in a rainy climate where it was dark and winters cold and damp, they did not survive. I tend to grow what is easy for me. Violets do have special needs for care, especially the variegated. The easiest to grow are those with deep purple with thick, fuzzy dark green red-backed leaves. I "learned to love those" before branching out to the blues, the pinks, then the reds, now the lighter colors.

Funny how I don't keep the Optimaras anymore that have grown themselves into perfect wagon wheels with evenly spaced blooms. They are the first to go, as they make perfect gifts. I have made my investment back if I sell them for $5 to $10. I've been asked to ship them, but that is too much trouble. I hate to ship a perfect plant and be told weeks later that "the post office played football with it" or "the dog ate it." I now just trade small starters or leaves. If I ever sold them in quantity, it would have to be local. Maybe coming from the northeast where plants are seasonal, I don't seem to mind letting mature violets go to new homes to make room for trays of leaf pots. Joanne

Joanne, No interview, just a comment he made on the African Violet Buddies page in answer to a query about the best reds.

47,
I think that AV-s should probably be doing well in my environment too (southern) - if only I could get the hang of this watering thing.

Well...when I re-potted My Love I changed the soil to the classic 1-1-1, taking as much of the original peat soil off the roots as I was able to - but I did not replant in another pot. I used the same large pot because I figured there was a reason Optimara used that size and not something smaller. After all, the plant is very large so I figured I would keep it in the same pot.

Yet, when I watered from below, I think it sucked in too much water because that plastic pot does have many holes. So ouch again. Other than those couple of limp leaves I took off, the plant looks nice and sturdy...but now one other leaf went limp. So I hope they won't drop like that one by one.

This evening I had to re-start the wick action on another Optimara I had on a 2-3 break from the wick. This time I only squarted a bit on top with a condiment bottle - going all around the stem so I could ensure even watering, and insisting mostly on the surface where the wick was coming out. I also weted the sticking-out wick...so here it goes.

If it goes limp tomorrow, I give up.

Any less water than this and we're talking pharmaceutical grades. :-)

I've never wicked, but the process makes sense ... though I would think that you would not interrupt the wicking process. Annie gives the impression that wicking is a consistent practice, ... over weeks, and months, ... without interruption.

As for non-wicked watering, the concept is simple. You only give your plant as much water as the pot will hold (given that you're using a properly sized pot). When a properly draining pot has more water than it should hold, ... the excess water will DRAIN out of the drain-holes. When that water drains into the pot's saucer, the water should be discarded.

Finally, mishaps with watering AV's can often be remedied (if they're caught within a day or so, ... BUT it takes time. If and when I overwater, ... and a plant goes limp, the steps I have taken to recover is to place the pot on a matting of paper towels, and allow the excess water to drain into the matting.

Then, I don't water again until the soil has dried up quite a bit (this might take several weeks). If the recovery process is successful, the plant should perk-up within a month or so. What's actually happening is that the violet is GROWING NEW ROOTS to replace those that were rotted by the over-watering. Some growers will also advise you to unpot the plant, cut off any brown (i.e. rotted) roots ... and repot. Of course, all fertilization must be postponed until the plant has been fully recovered for another month or so.

Determining when a plant is "dry" (i.e. ready for watering) has a little more latitude.

Any time from "when the top of the soil seems dry" ... or "the pot seems light" will work. Ideally, you want to water before the leaves begin to go limp, but even after leaves go limp, ... fresh water will often revive the leaves within a day or so.

One thing to note ... anytime most of the leaves of the plant go limp, you've got to assume that the plant's root system is compromised in some way, ... so you must be careful to nurture the plant's roots back to health. That means no fertilizers ... and very cautious watering ... just a little at first, and then more, as the plant becomes recovered. Healthy roots will PULL water from the soil over the course of a few days. If your violet is staying "wet" for long periods of time, them you know that the roots are compromised.

Grow enough violets ... and you'll get the knack ...

P.S. I've tried orchids (moth) ... and they just die on me. Someone gave me a nice Moth Orchid about a month ago. I watered it (just a little) because the medium seemed dry ... and all of the blossoms subsequently wilted and fell off. Now the leaves are drying and coming off. I really haven't a clue ...

Thank you, aegis! This sums it up really nicely and gives me the confidence I am doing everything right.

I am not sure but it is possible that the additional leaf that went limp was because of mechanical reasons caused by my attempts to pop off the initial two limp ones.

Now My Love is missing a few of those giant leaves on the first two - the ones that Optimara cooked with whatever magic they're using to make them so big.

The new growth that has been coming up in my house is smaller - and it is clear those leaves will never reach the elephant proportions of the bottom row. When I eventually take off the entire bottom row (for symmetry reasons, since I lost a few with this watering process) my violet will be overall smaller. Does that mean I will need to transplant it into a smaller pot as well?

The pot Optimara used to house this giant is understandably large (6 inches) but soon the plant will no longer be such a giant, with the conditions in my house.

Should I repot in smaller then? Now I am not sure when I will get rid of all leaves on the bottom row..maybe I should wait another 3-4 months because I just re-potted with new soil (in the same 6 inch pot it came).

This morning the plant looks good - I popped the additional limp one and plant looks good now. It's also sending up a bud but I won't let it bloom.

I have faced this problem a number of times. . . Do I downsize, leave it in the pot? Which is best?? I have ended up doing both. I found the roots of one of the Ever series to have mostly filled the pot. I left it alone. Another showed less root development. I repotted that one in a smaller size. I wanted the plant in my mix also. Either way, you have to be careful with watering.

I seldom can keep any plant going that is in a six pot, even one I have grown from the get go. Now, I remove roots & leaves & put back into a four inch.

As for the Optimara I left in the big pot, I eventually reduced it down to a four inch pot otherwise I probably would have lost it.

Begonia, I would let your plant cycle itself (and that means let it bloom when it is ready). What will happen is you will find once it starts blooming it will keep on and pretty soon you will have that eye candy to seem to be trying to see. How long are you going to keep "disbudding"? Are you going for a show??? Or do you just want what you see in the above pix??? I think if you let your plants cycle themselves to what is normal for them, they will be ready for your personal schedule of care. And I think you will be happier with the result.

About 6 inch potted violets:

Every now and then, Lowes get some violets in 6inch pots. Oh and I fell in love so I bought 2 of them last year. They haven't had them since. They looked as though they would never return to their former glory by the end of this past winter (but they did survive barely the furnace outage) and by spring, I only managed to put one of them (still in the 6inch pot) out on the deck in the violet spot.) That one is now in full bloom, leaves are very turgid like they should be, a couple of the leaves somewhat "bleached out to that gold color instead of green". I didn't put the other one out until last week. It had wimpy growth and of course no blooms. It is still in the 6inch pot. I am hoping the rest of the time it is out, it will "beef" it up like the other one.

These two will probably go on wicks (in their 6inch pots) this fall unless they lose a lot of outer leaves and that will allow me to downsize the root system, but I don't think that will happen.

I do think large potted violets can return to their former glory with a lot of care. I remember growing "Supremes" and it is their inherent nature to have very large oversized leaves just because of their hybridizing. The chromosomes, so to speak. (Standard is the normal size we are familiar with, then semi mini to mini, then micro mini)

I read a lot about "the leaves never got as large as when I bought the plant". I don't really have an answer, but it has got to be in the growing. AND don't forget,,,,,the readjustment period I believe every plant goes thru from grower to "home grower".

I haven't had a Supreme for years. I don't know where to get one in these modern days. Chanticleer (vintage Eyerdom) was the one that comes to mind that I had back in the day. She was and is my favorite and I want aother one!!!!! And with adequate fertilizing and care her leaf size was consistently "Supreme"!

Maybe the 6inch pots Lowe's had were Supremes. but since there are no tags,,,,,,,(don't get me started on that subject) you can't look them up to find out.

If I end up downsizing the one I just put on the deck at the end of fall, if it is a supreme proper, with good care it should once again bounce back to its former glory. I am definitely gonna try. The one that had been on the deck I brought in and I am putting it on a wick system (by carefully taking the entire plant out of the pot, threading a wick thru the bottom of the pot and carefully putting the plant in its entirely back in the pot) I let the plant dry just enough to hold the root ball together so I can take it out of the pot without everything falling all over, it is a very gentle operation but not at all hard. It helps that it is potbound.

Plants are bred to be specific sizes and colors. If they are hybridized properly (before distribution) those traits carry through.

You can't make a Supreme out of a Standard just by feeding it more. You will get optimum growth of your standard. And it will be gorgeous,,,but you can't change what is in the genes unless you hybridize with it.

Below is Chanticleer, look at the size of those leaves!!!!! Rosie

Aegis, I never could keep a moth orchid (Phalenopsis) alive. I killed them all. And then I found the secret. Once a week or two, I take that orchid and sink it to the rim in warm water. (no one likes a cold shower).

If you want to use fertilizer water that's fine. Then let it soak in that.

I leave it there for about 1/2 hour or so, timing is not critical. Then I let it drain and put it back in it's cover pot.

Make sure the cover pot is at least 1/2 inch larger all the way around so air can circulate.

Never let the orchid sit in water after it's initial soaking. I usually put a little aquarium gravel in the bottom of the cover pot in case it drains more.

Kind of sounds like a violet!

Once I did those few things,,,,my orchids grew and blossomed nicely! By the way, Miss Patience helped me with this also. Rosie

Wow ... thanks, Rosie

Can't wait to try it ...

Terri, did Kent Stork say which are his favorites? I have Tomahawk also. I had arahapoe and Arcturus but they did not survive.

Begonia, Optimara uses oversized pots because they are commercial growers, they use what works best for shipping then sitting neglected on shelves in retail stores. Not what is adapted for home use or is best for the violets. The peat they use is because it holds water for a long time. In the long run it is not good. I no longer use vermiculite as it stays too wet.

Aegis, orchids are difficult in your area.

Rosie, my chanticleer looks nothing like that. The leaves are very small. Joanne

Terri I've done same with o's and usually find they do better in the correct size pot. On one of the o videos on you tube, o's were shown as babies placed in large pots for market. Often, way too big. So you get a pot full of roots

Aegis,,,,,,,,As far as orchids go,,,,all they require is enough water to keep those thick roots "thick". If your area growing conditions demands once a week then that is what you do. More than once my orchids have gone bone dry for longer than I will care to admit. (shame on me). BUT once I get back to soaking them again,,,,,they forgive me and all is well.

There is just one thing. I take my new orchid out of the pot and I always mix in some damp shredded sphagnum into the mix and put it all back in the pot. Why you may ask???? Normal orchid bark dries out too fast and the addition of the moss keeps things damper a little longer so all is well.

Joanne,,,,I can't wait to get a Chanticleer. I want to see if the ole gal is still made of the same thing! And I always have loved Chanticleer. Such a beautiful Supreme! I will definitely keep everyone posted!!!!! Rosie

Joanne, I'm going on memory as to which reds Kent liked best. I think he mentioned Tatanka & Kansas City Barbecue. A couple of red lovers suggested Buffalo Hunt as one of his better ones.

As for orchids, those who want to give them a try, should! I have been growing orchids for many years & though I no longer have a greenhouse, I still grow a number of different types in the house. Cattleyas, dendrobiums, & oncidiums go outside for the summer. Phals & Paphs usually stay indoors. I've mostly selected varieties that bloom fall through spring, so summer is for growing & developing flower stems. You will find that some with grow quite easily for you, others will be a challenge, . . rather like growing AV's!

Terri in Indiana

47, then what do you use for potting mix?

50%av soil and 50%perlite?

yes

Terri, you had a greenhouse?! I would like that! I had Buffalo Hunt, it was a beauty. Annie mentions Kansas City BBQ so she would have the best the storks recommend. I haven't heard of the Tatanka and will look for that. I wonder if the storks have an outdoor greenhouse. Annie did two podcasts showing their indoor shelves. That is probably all they have. Joanne