Morpheus: Also, I read about your milk applications to help with the spreading of KBG and was wondering when would be a good time to spray that to the lawn - this fall or next spring? If so, have you found a max/optimal rate?

If your soil is in the perfect groove, it can help a little bit. If not, I think I'd save the time and (limited, but hey) money.

I do think it improves density a touch, and color a hair, but it's definitely very far down on the list.

I'm guessing the Epsom salt is from one of my recommendations; can you point me to the test so I can review how much I said you should put down?

Yep it was. But I realized I missed the June 1 application and never got around to buying more. Now I was hoping to squeeze those last two by the end of the season, which is why I thinking about putting an app down in early September and then another Mid/Late-October.

Your magnesium levels were definitely "low, but not horrible."

In this case, just apply 2 pounds per thousand on October 15th and avoid stressing the new grasses.

Then put down the last pound per thousand application on April 15th or so of 2016. It's not that critical to get in all three this year, and you'll still manage 4 out of 5 pounds. (Technically, if you skip the April application I wouldn't blink and we'll just pick up whatever else you need on the next test anyway).

Ok sounds good, thanks!

Also, I had a quick question about Prodiamine and split applications. You put your two applications around late March/early April and late August/Early September, right?

I know KBG's annual limit is 1.5 lbs/acre (1.5 Tbsp/k), so should I split the applications evenly or do the spring one at ~1 Tbsp/k and the Fall one at ~0.5 Tbsp/k (seeing as I wouldn't need coverage in December-March)?

That's pretty much what I do, so my answer is yes. :-) I'm sure other people do it differently, and really the 1.5 Tbsp k-1 in April should cover you through the end of the season anyway.

My problem is that I tend to be a little too careful what what I'm applying and end up around 1 Tbsp no matter what I aim for. So the other 0.5 goes down in late summer to early fall, just as the protection starts to drop.

Ok perfect! So that's what I'm going to do every year then.

However, this year I would like to get the barrier up at day 60 of the reno (mid October) to carry me until April. Would it be safe to put this down at a 5 month rate? It's technically not part of the same calendar year, but is its proximity to April's application harmful?

Also, just wanted to let you know that I found a co-op near me and I'm planning on checking out what they have and planning for next year. I'm going to try to get some more cracked corn for this upcoming spring to help build up the anti fungal properties. I've read your posts that alfalfa's hormones are great for root development.

Is it better to apply alfalfa in the Spring so the grass can develop strong roots for the summer or during the Fall when the grass naturally tends to focus on root development?

I don't think it matters, really, but if you made me choose, I'd apply the alfalfa in September. As temperatures drop, root growth surges, and the things are madly storing food for winter. I'd guess (without doing the research) that you'd want the greatest advantage in fall.

Ok, I'll look into a fall application then! What flows better through a spreader, pellets or meal?

I'm guessing that you're going to start ramping up the organics soon, it is definitely starting to feel like Fall is just around the corner.

Finally, I just wanted to make sure that a 5 month rate of Prodiamine this October shouldn't be harmful if I'm planning on maxing the annual limit next year (split apps in April and September)?

Meals tend to flow so-so, but pellets tend to get caught (for alfalfa, anyway, soybean differs). I'd go with the meal, and plan on clearing some clogs...

Organic ramp-up started on August 1 around here, actually! The initial release date for the nitrogen was around August 21st, just as the weather started to make the change. The second app will be September 1, the third and final one October 1.

If you're applying 1 Tbsp in April (about 5 1/2 months), you really only have 0.5 Tbsp (a bit under 3 months) left for the September app. But that carries you into December, so no problems there!

Just curious, do you always account for a three week window when estimating the release of nitrogen from organic sources, even in a soil with a strong microherd?

I was also interested in one of your posts on a foliar iron spray before the start of winter. Not only does it keep the lawn looking great for the majority of winter, but the darker color helps with whatever small amount of sunlight we have. Any concerns about applying this to new grass?

>>Just curious, do you always account for a three week window when estimating the release of nitrogen from organic sources, even in a soil with a strong microherd?

Pretty much, although I know (and can visibly see) that it's inaccurate in my soil. Colors change after about 10 days, but you'd need a good eye or to be intimately acquainted with my lawn to see it.

Growth doesn't strengthen until an absolute minimum of 2 weeks, and it does improve a bit over time, so 3 weeks is still a reasonably accurate statement. And so much depends on the weather.

>>Any concerns about applying this to new grass?

I'd be gentle or skip it that first year--maybe 2 oz per thousand total maximum. I'm not a fan of stressing younger grasses if I can avoid it.

Ok great, I'll keep it light if I decide I want it extra dark this winter. I have a feeling that a winterizer might be enough though.

I found a Crop Production Services about 40 minutes away today, what would you say is a good price for grains (specifically corn meal, alfalfa meal, and soybean meal)? Thanks again!

Pricing will be highly variable by region, current value of the crop future, and when you get it (just post-harvest for a given grain, prices tend to be a bit lower). My local grain mill recalculates all prices every morning, except on items that aren't volatile like urea and their brand of fertilizers.

For me, on average, corn meal varies from $8 to $15 per fifty pounds. Alfalfa is all over the map, but call it $20 for 50 pounds. Soy varies a fair bit as well, but is usually between $12 and $18 for 50 pounds.

Oh that makes sense. Do you happen to know off the top of your head when they harvest those grains? I won't need it until next spring, so I can wait until prices are at their lowest.

I thought the grains were going to come out cheaper, but I can get a 50 lb bag of Oceangro (5-5-0) for $8 during April. Would it be ok to just spread an application of each of the grains once a year and rely more heavily on Oceangro?

I get mine at Kale's Nursery in Princeton, but it's only $8 during Oceangro's April sale, so that's usually when I stock up for the year. Where do you go? I purchase at least 10 for the season so it would be nice if I wasn't constrained to buying everything in April.

I'll probably do Alfalfa in the Fall and I would like to put down corn meal in the Spring, even though it's more expensive, since it helps with fungal diseases. Other than that, I'll stick with Oceangro for the rest of the year.

That's perfect!

>>Morpheus, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you said it was fine to use whatever is the cheapest if there is a big difference.

100% correct. In this case, with OceanGro being much cheaper, there's no reason not to use it!

Target amount of OG will be about 20 pounds per thousand, and eventually you're going to overdo the phosphorus levels in the soil and want to shift to something else (a 1:1 ratio with nitrogen is extremely high*), but that should take a while.

I like to mix it up a little at least once a year with something else, but your spring corn and fall alfalfa more than accomplish that task.

* Daniel has noted that I tend to hurl out pearls of "wisdom" (my detractors say I spew something else) every now and again that indicate I have Secret, Magic Lawn Tips. I don't, really, it's just that I tend not to send people into information overload if I don't have to. On soil tests, I have to since the amount of information is enormous.

Grasses use nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium roughly in a 4:1:2 ratio, so the "perfect" fertilizer would be around this, and exactly supply what the grass has used from the soil (or, in the case of nitrogen, exactly what it needs).

Everything would maintain its exact, perfect balance in the soil that way...at least for the three major resources.

In practice? Well, not so much. Soy's ratio is 7:1:2, or very high on the nitrogen, tolerable but a touch high on K, and low on P. Corn's is 1.7:0.7:0.4, so overbalanced on P and under-balanced on K. OceanGro's 1:1:0 ratio is very overbalanced on P and very under-balanced on K.

So what we do is use it, but keep an eye on the soil test. When phosphorus levels finally rise higher than they should, stop using it and move to something else with a far lower P ratio.

For northern lawns, the actual feeding needs are pretty low overall, so four feedings a year organically aren't usually that expensive on a modest lawn no matter what you use.

In my case, P levels have risen so high that I've discontinued Milorganite for now (5:2:0 ratio) and I'm using soybean meal pretty exclusively.

Even in the gardens, I now use a mix. They get 25 pounds per thousand of soybean meal and 18 pounds per thousand of Milorganite a month.

Stephen - I get it at Ferris Farms in East Brunswick, NJ. Just call ahead to make sure he's got it in stock.