I watched the video on how the guy grew dark-green giant kale on just decayed woodchips plus Azomite. He explained that the fungi on decayed wood-chips give off nutrients to support plants. True, when I googled for zinc and manganese, those 2 crucial nutrients are found in mushrooms. Mushroom is a fungi. Here's the nutrients in white-button mushroom that we eat: "Niacin Riboflavin Folate Phosphorus Iron Panthothenic Acid Zinc Potassium Copper Magnesium Vitamin B6 Selenium Thiamin". Azomite is like sowing a seed of minerals, then the fungi feed off from that, and create more nutrients.

That explains why Heirloom roses recommend mixing 1/2 wood chips with soil to grow roses. Tchaikovsky and Souv. du President Lincoln are my 2 healthiest roses. I put tons of woodchips, cracked corn, and alfalfa hay in those 2 holes in advance. when I dug up the hole, there's fungi growing on the corn, on the hay, and on the woodchips .. and the clay is softened. Fungus grows best when there's air (oxygen), so LAYERING large chunks into the soil help to develop fungal growth. In contrast, when I mixed pine fines into clay .. it became concrete, there's no oxygen nor space for fungus or earthworms to thrive.

To make the soil fertile, I need to create gaps, or air-space by LAYERING organics that will become moldy. The fungi is good, they give off nutrients to enrich the soil. Mushrooms are high in zinc and manganese, those 2 nutrients are needed in roses' tissue. Thanks to Sam, I connect the dots and see what's best for root-growth in terms of creating nutrients. Also leaves on top, or decayed grass on top isn't good as LAYERING into the soil, or LAYERING in the planting hole.

I created a BS-fest when I dumped leaves on top of roses to winter-protect (20 years ago). Years ago I killed a few tomatoes with verticullum wilt by dumping wet grass, which got moldy. MULCHING with wet & decayed stuff is the best way to inflict fungal diseases on plants. As I got more experienced in gardening, I learned to LAYER organics into soil. My bumper crop of tomato was when I LAYER fresh lawn-clippings into clay in May, down to a depth of one foot. That aerate the soil, and encouraged molds to grow underneath, which gives off nutrients to feed plants. Mycorrhyzal fungi under soil helps root to uptake phosphorus .. both the endo- and ecto type prefer it slightly acidic, and the best way is to feed them with decayed organics UNDER the soil.

Thank you straw. Yes I heard about trench composting yesterday.

I am going to make aerated compost tea with molasses . Then spray with it to get as much fungi as I can.

The plant feeds exudates to the fungi. Then the fungi exchange and give the plant the mined minerals the plant needs.

I like the roses in pots very much.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/3327117/roses-in-pots?n=13

What a great Thread, msdorkgirl is in it.

Great info Straw!

Too much Phosphorus harms mycorrhizae fungi that's why I will not use anything that contains high amounts of Phosphorus...

Cool pot thread Sam!

Let us know how making & spraying compost tea works out for you Sam...

Just on a careful note: I did read where overuse of compost teas have caused runoff and water pollution...Just like the overuse of any fertilizer...

Do Jb's chew buds or just petals of open blooms. I found a Jb today... Soap city for it...lol

Sam: Go for it !! Thank you for testing foliar feed of compost tea. My motto: If you don't try it, then don't knock it. Thank you, Sam, for the info. you gave at one time: "Linda Chalker Scott attacked Compost tea and said it doesn't work. Linda Chalker Scott attacked Elaine Ingham' s work. Elaine Ingham teaches aerated compost tea to combat disease causing organisms."

Elaine Ingham is a soil scientist, with a Ph.D in microbiology. Linda C. Scott is a horticultural professor. Elaine Ingham is a specialist, I took microbiology in college and know the rigors and accuracy of that science. In contrast, Horticultural science varies, it's NOT black and white, since it depends on one's soil and climate. I once tested the bagged soil in Chicagoland and it registered pH over 8. Then a horticultural professor told me my result is WRONG, since his bagged soil in Florida is neutral. Ha! Ha! They don't ship his soil from Florida to every part of the country. Would a local Chicago soil company be stupid enough to import soil from Florida? Florida is mostly sandy, while I'm heavy clay, next to a limestone quarry.

That Linda Chalker Scott should keep her mouth shut regarding other regions of the country. I don't give a damn about what others say that work or doesn't work for their particular region. What matters is I TEST IN MY GARDEN, and it works for me. Horticulture varies even within a short distance: what works in my alkaline clay garden DOES NOT work in my last garden, 1/2 hour away, with acidic clay.

Straw

Thanks for posting that. Uncomposted manuer rotting with water then sprayed it on the tree will kill the tree. In what way does that show that compost doesn't work. I know Aerated Compost works. I have not tried tea. Elaine Ingham is working with it in thousands of farms and gardens. In a teaspoon of soil there's more organisms than there is people on the earth. I put fresh on compost every year.

Linda Chalker Scott goes by Scientific reports and there has been little done in that field that can support compost tea...

That doesn't mean it doesn't work its just not supported by science yet... So certain people with certain titles will not support it until science does....

With me if I see something work first-hand I don't care if science supports it or not because I know it works because I experienced it working...

Looked at Thomas today and I noticed about 15+ leaves yellowing and looks like more to follow... Warmer weather taking its toll watering not helping but may be hindering... Blackspot coming on now from stress of the move... Yep should of waited until early Spring... :-/

Jim

You had a good reason to move The TA rose. I stand by your decision, Jim.

Msdorkgirl,

I watched the movie Aloha last night! The ending was so good.

Is that guy in there really the king of Hawaii?

I moved a D. KO last August and lost every leaf on the bush... But it still made it through winter ok... It grew really slow this year but bloomed well...Hopefully next year that one takes off...

So its possible TA might be a bit stunted next year...

I have a lupine flower. Yay

Yay...lol... Pic Pic Pic

Flower looks great Sam and leaves are nice and green! Healthy looking! Yay!

That bloom that opened on Earthsong last Monday is still on the bush but looking ratty...No rose bush bloom I ever had has lasted longer than our Precious Platinum rose bush blooms... Blooms lasted 10-16 days on the bush....D. Ko is our second longest lasting bloom we ever had on the bush...

Maybe the lupines knew I watered in the new compost with the 10% clay and the cow manuer and so they rewarded me with a gift.

Yeppers Sam! lol

msdorkgirl, did you get those storms? Hopefully you are safe!

Sam: I'm happy for your lupine bloom ... would love to see it when it opens. My favorite site is gardenguides.com. For blooming, 20 elements are needed (both macro and micro nutrients).

Here's an excerpt from below link. For micronutrients, it listed nitrogen, phosphorus, and esp. potassium & calcium for blooming. "Potassium controls water intake and deficiency as well as making the plants tough and capable of enduring cold. When plants lack potassium, they appear speckled and blemished, with bent and charred leaves. Sulfur helps produce chlorophyll ... Light-colored leaves appear when plants lack sulfur. Magnesium is another important component of the chlorophyll and aids in the way carbohydrates, sugars and fats function. Yellowing, droopy leaves are signs of magnesium-deficiency. Calcium is a component of the cell walls and helps manage the volume of water. It is vital for cell growth and division (mitosis). Calcium-deficient plants may show little or underdeveloped bloom production. Twisted new growth, black spotted leaves, pale or yellow leaf margins are also signs that the plant lacks calcium.
Boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum and nickel are macronutrients. Each one may contribute in the flowering ... Silicon and cobalt provide supplemental nutrients to flowering plants. Plants with ample amounts of soluble silicon will generate more resilient and robust cell walls, rendering them less susceptible to extreme heat and dry surroundings. Silicon may also prevent fungal infection. Cobalt helps secure nitrogen, which is a major macronutrient."

Read more: Nutrients for Blooming Plants | Garden Guides

Well it looks like Thomas is going to lose more of its leaves ...

Leaves curling, yellowing, getting crispy, etc...

Watering made it worse so no more of that...lol

Anyhow I picked up about 50 or so small leaves that fell off or was about to fall off Thomas... Larger leaves holding on yet.

Underside of leaves getting sun-burn... When Thomas was out front against that stonewall he grew outward and the backside of him exposed the underside of a lot of his leaves. (But sun did NOT hit back there because of stonewall... Now being in a new location that gets sun equal all around him the undersides are getting burned...

NOTE: I thought Thomas was getting BS from the stress of the move but at closer look its NOT BS...

Grass holding up to drought except in the middle where our dog urinates alot...

Prairie Harvest:

Earthsong:

Easy Does It:

Grass NOT holding up to well on the side of house...

Morning Glories and Dogwood bushes showing signs of disease...

I added more pics above in my post:

I like seeing the pictures. Thanks. Kind of like a garden tour.

My garden is going along too just as well.

I'll be pulling our morning glories out soon as they are declining...

Marigolds when there time comes I'll cut top growth off but leave roots in the ground until next year....

I'd like to try Garlc bulbs planted around roses but have not found any organic ones around here yet. Grocery Store have been sprayed with chemicals so no good...

Online wants way to much for organic garlic bulbs... Way to much!

Sometime in September I'll be spreading more compost...

Got rid of Morning Glories today...

I have a zinnia in that pot and 3 Zinnias behind it in the ground they MIGHT bloom by our first frost...lol

Here's the Marigolds out front I cut way back a couple weeks ago because they were not blooming very good. Back to blooming again...

Another thing I like about the D. Ko is its leaves always look as fresh in Sept/Oct as they did in the Spring....

My morning glories did the same.

Here's Quietness next to raspberries.

Quietness has a nice bloom Sam!

Yes I would be crazy to spray. My roses are right next to my food.

Not only , It would be bad for frogs and bad for me too. Haha

Jim and Straw and Msdorkgirl, did you see the baby tree frog in the rose forum.

No I did not see the baby tree frog Sam... What threads it in? Thanks!

It's called a little visitor I know she doesn't spray most of the people from Massachusetts are environmentally aware that fungicide is no good for frogs.

Another reason to not spray chemicals.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/3331351/a-little-visitor?n=6

In the northeast if you have pest and diseases then new topsoil and a cold winter will take care of it .

Sam, I noticed above you said your roses were by your food plants... If you spray compost tea be careful as some people reported E-coli outbreaks on there food plants from using compost tea with added molasses /sugars...

Risks of Compost Tea

Escherichia coli 0157:H7, Salmonella and Listeria are now common household terms that have raised the fears of many consumers. Foodborne outbreaks of diseases caused by these organisms have been associated with the consumption of raw fruits and vegetables and have been linked to the use of uncomposted manure during the growing, harvesting and washing of these commodities. Composting manure effectively reduces pathogens to nondetectable levels (Lung, 2001), but composting is not sterilizing. It is reasonable to assume that very low levels and resting stages of these pathogens may be present, even though they may not be a health risk. When compost is land applied, the soil environment will not foster regrowth, and the low levels of pathogens will quickly wane. In contrast, when compost is brewed in a tea, conditions may favor growth of populations of pathogenic organisms. This was the case when simple sugars were added to the brewing tea. Bess (2002) and Duffy et al. (2002) brewed ACT with molasses and other simple sugars and demonstrated that these microbial nutrient supplements not only enhance the growth of beneficial bacteria in the tea but also support and may select for the growth of E. coli and Salmonella.Both authors suggest that eliminating sugars can reduce or eliminate the pathogens.

Good Info. I haven't sprayed compost tea yet. But I did just put down compost with manuer.

Thanks Jim

Sam: Thanks for link to the pic. of the frog by Enchantedrose (Sharon). She posted in organic rose before, really nice lady.

Jim: Thomas Affleck look really good after the transplant. It's soaking wet here. Rain again this morning.

Straw, for 3 days after I transplanted TA the weather was cooler low 70's and cloudy each day. Now really hot sunny weather has hit... I watered TA yesterday and like usual leaves started turning yellow and dropping... So no more watering for awhile... I cleaned up Thomas dropped leaves and took really bad yellowing leaves off the bush... This entire weeks going to be hot, hot, hot, and dry...But TA should be fine....

I heard on the news Hurricane was causing huge waves in Hawaii.... I hope msdorkgirl is ok...

Thanks Jim, for the info. Your Knock-outs look really good, leaves are very healthyl I'm praying for Msgirl & her family's safety. She's a great gal.

Sam: I like the color of your Quietness rose, looks really nice next to your yummy strawberries. I had so many experiences of bone meal burning my plants, from geraniums, to tomato and roses (both on top and in the planting hole). Someone on Amazon also reported high-bone-meal in Job's NPK 2-7-4 burnt his tomato. Here's why: high in sulfates (caustic at 2,000 ppm), high in salt (400 chlorides), high in aluminum (toxic to roots). Here're the elements in bone meal from below link:

http://www.ingredients101.com/bone.htm

Guaranteed AnalysisPhosphorous 14 % Calcium 23 % Fluorine, max.05 %

Typical Trace Element Analysis (measured in ppm)

Iron 400 Magnesium 120 Manganese 50 Molybenum 5 Copper 5

Aluminum 200 Vanadium 5 Sodium 300

Sulfates 2000 Potassium 20 Cobalt 0.5 Zinc 100 Lead 2.5

Mercury 25 Selenium .05 Arsenic0.5 Cadmium0.8 Chlorides 400

I forgot: This past Sunday we stopped at our local Catholic Church to get a closer look at the KO's they have planted:

Firstoff: I noticed Ko's are planted on a steep grade...(Soil was very dry even 3.5 inches deep) (Soil totally different than ours more brown than dark like ours.)

I noticed the soil had been washed away causing alittle of the roots to be exposed on all the roses... (Steep Grade) ( Roses may of not been planted correctly to begin with (?) combined with erosion from water runoff...)

I noticed whoever is in charge of pruning lacks the skills to do it correctly...(Dead canes/branches throughout each KO...)

My Grandma & pap are buried not far from the Catholic Church... The soil is similar at both places. To grow flowers well at the cementary I spread our compost then wood mulch over top to hold in water.... Works well with that type of soil to keep flowers looking good...

Anyhow that's why there Ko's look so bad....

Same here too, Jim, the townhome nearby planted their knock-outs on a steep hill ... none survived this past winter & dry spring. Soil erosion plus minerals-leaching from heavy rain will cause a decline in health. My most healthy roses are partially shielded from heavy rain: either against the house, or in front of my tall house. The ones that break out in blackspots, lost leaves, or have "rain-holes" are the ones I put the over-flow from my rain-barrels.

It rained 20+ hours this past Friday night & all-day Sat & plus Sat. night. I was outside in heavy rain on Saturday, checking my 6 rooting-areas, plus my 4 pots. I have 3 rain-barrels which collect water from the roof. My house has 4-bedrooms, so a HUGE amount of water went into each 52 gallon barrel.

Such big barrel wasn't enough to hold the heavy rain, so the overflow-hose went onto some rose bushes. I saw the beds were flooding with water, so I took a 32 gallon trash-can to put the over-flow hose from one rain barrel. Guess what? That filled up in less than 15 minutes. For each rose bush with the over-flow hose, they got tons of water dumped on them. Only 2 rose bushes survived the ordeal without losing leaves, or getting holes: W.S. 2000 and Golden Celebration, which I fixed their holes recently by digging down past 3 feet deep.

During heavy rain, I ran to the other 2 rain-barrels, and put 5-gallon buckets to catch the overflow. Each 5-gallon bucket filled up in less than 2 minutes. Evelyn got the over-flow hose directly on it, but it survived OK, only few leaves have holes or black spots. I put solid-mineral-buffers on top: equal amount of red-lava-rock (potassium) and pea-gravel (calcium & other nutrients)

Stephen Big Purple got the over-flow from the rain-barrel dumped on it. It was topped with alfalfa pellets & dolomitic lime. That wasn't enough, since Stephen Big Purple lost 1/2 of its lower leaves, plus black spots. It's a well-drained spot, but when it got dozens of 32-gallons water dumped at once, that's like flash-flood. We'll going to buy LONGER HOSES, to hook the overflow from rain barrels to the tall-raised tomato bed, or run it OUTSIDE of the rose-beds.

Time it takes to fill the below 52-gallon rain-barrel during heavy rain? Less than 1 hour in average rain, or 1/2 hour in heavy rain. See W.S. 2000 rose planted right smack in front? I moved it away from the overflow.

I always thought about putting a second layer of compost for the season in the fall ,never did. Thanks for Jim and Straw for giving me the smarts to go ahead. It's such a great Idea to renew refresh the soil. It keeps pests and diseases from making a home and getting a hold of the roses. It also gives the roots healthy nutrients. I did it in Late Aug so I am getting flowers too.

Busy week last week, but I'll catch up :P

Here's blooms I took this morning on the run ... Happy 1st of September everyone!

Msgirl: Glad that you are safe from the hurricane. Your roses have such healthy & lush leaves. I love the dark pink, medium pink, and the last white rose. They all look good, lots of petals !! Chinese Chives beat ALL the plants that I had ever planted in attracting bees, butterflies, and wasp. I counted 2 butterflies (one blue, one orange), about 10 bees and 20 wasps in my Chinese Chives-patch. It's very invasive (best in pots). I put up with Chinese chives since my kid likes egg-rolls made with chives and pork.

The insects love Chinese chives so much that they ignore my 2 dozens marigolds, my perennials flowers. But I still see bees inside my fragrant roses. In my garden: bees ignore my Knock-outs & non-fragrant roses. When I had Basyes Blueberry: super fragrant with big stamens. I was addicted to that scent, so was the bees. I had to get a newspaper to chase away the bee-swamp, to get my chance in sniffing that.

Planting fragrant roses DO HELP to attract bees. At Cantigny park of 1,200 roses, I never see any bees for the past 20 years, only for the past 3 years which they cut down on spraying, I saw a bee for the 1st time on their most fragrant rose: Eglantyne, an Austin rose .. but none of their landscape or non-fragrant ones. See below Chinese chives, each stem holds a cluster of flower, each cluster has on average one bee, and 2 wasp. There's at least 40 stems, multiply that and you'll get a swarm of bees plus wasp. Picture below has 2 bees: topmost edge, and another below the yellow wasp.

Since we don't have any fragrant roses blooming bees, hummingbirds, are all over our D. Ko's...I love to watch the hummingbirds chasing each other...lol...

Our 2 zinnia plants we had behind that one D. Ko collasped today from to much weight...(stems broke) so had to remove them...Bees, hummingbirds, butterflies, loved those... I have younger zinnias that will start blooming soon...

STRAW, nice rain barrel! You get lots of rain filling those barrels that fast... We have not had enought rain total in the past 5-6 weeks to even fill up a 5 gallon bucket...Nice bee pic Straw!

Sam, I usually only apply compost in the fall and so far so good... I'll tweak that if needed in the future...

msdorkgirl, great to hear your ok! Great pics msdorkgirl! Always enjoy your pics!

TOOK THIS PIC TODAY:

Very nice bee pictures. More purple on my lupine. Not all the way yet.

Thanks all!

I just checked Thomas and I seen many more leaves that are yellow so I pulled those off. I see more starting to yellow so I expect Thomas will drop quite a few leaves before he settles back in...(If leaves are real yellow I just remove them...)

So how's everyones tomato plants doing?

Ours still hanging in there....We got a very good harvest off of Celebrity even though I did not fertilize it... (But I think we got bigger tomatoes the years I fertilized them.)

CELEBRITY:

CHERRY:

Wow nice.

I have a few Rutgers tomatoes. And a few beefsteak tomatoes.

Planted some Zinnia seeds late so hopefully we will have some late season Zinnia blooms...

This zinnia here will bloom soon...

We need some rain to get these 2 little guys going... The larger Zinnia should bloom soon.

POTTED ZINNIA

My 2-red cherry tomatoes, each occupy a space of 6' wide. I'm too lazy to pick them, so they rotted. I bought medium-size-variety "Indigo" from Walmart, both plants gave a few fruits then died, so the cherry tomatoes took over. The big yellow-fruit in front, is really yummy, a good crop. I eat cherry tomato fresh, and freeze the big ones. I planted too many cherry-tomatoes this year (4 yellow sun sugar, two Sweet 1000). Here's cherry tomato go crazy with Chinese chives:

Great tomato & flower pic Straw!

Just dropping in --- with all the craziness of past few weeks, I can't be as detailed in my comments as I would like but hope this weekend I can catch up.

Remember I was suggesting we grow a similar plant? Heirloom Roses is selling some now for 20% off so if we can all agree and cross fingers they have it in stock for everyone interested in participating, then we can do the experiment! :)

I already bought the Eden 1 gallon before it sold out.

I can't get a rose now . my 4 ft of snow will freeze it before the roots can take root.

Here is my first lupine flower it is intricate.

msdorkgirl,

After thinking about it for awhile it would be very hard to buy the same rose bush for all of us since our climates & BS pressure differ so much. I also can't plant a rose bush at this time of the year.

Plus I need to see if the newer roses I bought & planted the past 2 years are going to even be ok for my conditions... I'm going to slow down until I know all is stable here... Probably only getting One rose next year but its known to do well here... (My friend has it...)

That Lupine is awesome Sam! :-)

I'm starting a new thread...lol